Argh, Canvec imports

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Argh, Canvec imports

Michal Migurski
A cry of frustration:

I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a recurring source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I consistently see new imports of what seems to be Canvec data screwing up coastlines and making for some deeply broken renders:

        http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png

Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within the last few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean coastline suitable for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik tiles in Hudson Bay, too:

        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M

I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've managed to fix invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa and the dreaded Montréal area in an effort to generate a usable map of North America, but this Canvec stuff is absolutely killing me.

-mike.

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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

Simone Cortesi
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 08:40, Michal Migurski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A cry of frustration:
>
> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a recurring source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I consistently see new imports of what seems to be Canvec data screwing up coastlines and making for some deeply broken renders:
>
>        http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>
> Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within the last few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean coastline suitable for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik tiles in Hudson Bay, too:
>
>        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M
>
> I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've managed to fix invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa and the dreaded Montréal area in an effort to generate a usable map of North America, but this Canvec stuff is absolutely killing me.

I care about the coastline too,
long time ago there used to be this:
http://www.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html where anyone could go and
fix coastline errors that did show up on a purpose made mapnik layer.
I see there is a geofabrik layer for that same purpos, but it is
limited just to europe.

Michal, are you aware of any such layer, but worldwide?

--
-S

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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

Frank Steggink
In reply to this post by Michal Migurski
Quoting Michal Migurski <[hidden email]>:

> A cry of frustration:
>
> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines  
> (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a  
> recurring source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I  
> consistently see new imports of what seems to be Canvec data  
> screwing up coastlines and making for some deeply broken renders:
>
> http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>
> Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within  
> the last few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean  
> coastline suitable for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik  
>  tiles in Hudson Bay, too:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M
>
> I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've  
> managed to fix invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa  
> and the dreaded Montréal area in an effort to generate a usable map  
> of North America, but this Canvec stuff is absolutely killing me.
>
> -mike.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> michal migurski- [hidden email]
>                  415.558.1610
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

Hi Michal,

The rendering error northeast of Quebec City was caused by a novice  
user who has adjusted the Canvec data which was already there. The  
import in this region was done by me about half a year ago.

The user in question had adjusted the coastline tags to  
waterway=riverbank, in order for him to show it up properly on his GPS  
(while using mkgmap for the conversion). He already became aware of  
what he has done, and has fixed the error himself (which I think is  
laudable). I've done a check, and the coastline looks all right to me.  
I'm not sure what to do with the remaining waterway=riverbank tag.  
This is part of a larger discussion about what to do with large  
waterbodies.

The slippy map doesn't show the corrected situation yet, because the  
coastline shapefile is not updated very often.

Regards,

Frank


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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

Michal Migurski
On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:46 AM, Frank Steggink wrote:

> Quoting Michal Migurski <[hidden email]>:
>
>> A cry of frustration:
>>
>> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines  (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a  recurring source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I  consistently see new imports of what seems to be Canvec data  screwing up coastlines and making for some deeply broken renders:
>>
>> http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>
> Hi Michal,
>
> The rendering error northeast of Quebec City was caused by a novice user who has adjusted the Canvec data which was already there. The import in this region was done by me about half a year ago.
>
> The user in question had adjusted the coastline tags to waterway=riverbank, in order for him to show it up properly on his GPS (while using mkgmap for the conversion). He already became aware of what he has done, and has fixed the error himself (which I think is laudable). I've done a check, and the coastline looks all right to me. I'm not sure what to do with the remaining waterway=riverbank tag. This is part of a larger discussion about what to do with large waterbodies.
>
> The slippy map doesn't show the corrected situation yet, because the coastline shapefile is not updated very often.


I had noticed a lot of waterway=riverbank up there, you're right.

The first black and white image I link above is derived from the current, November 10 planet dump, so it's a very recent picture of coastline errors. Many of those errors didn't exist in the coastline I made from the November 3 planet dump.

Here are some sample locations in Canada where the checker has found errors:
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.790035&lon=-94.202604&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.749700&lon=-92.698650&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.260826&lon=-66.086208&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.298267&lon=-66.117219&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.970073&lon=-92.627314&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.086208&lon=-70.745529&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=57.053591&lon=-92.000000&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.238757&lon=-66.055341&zoom=17&layers=M
        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.936914&lon=-74.704294&zoom=17&layers=M

-mike.

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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

Michal Migurski
In reply to this post by Simone Cortesi
On Nov 17, 2011, at 1:54 AM, Simone Cortesi wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 08:40, Michal Migurski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> A cry of frustration:
>>
>> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a recurring source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I consistently see new imports of what seems to be Canvec data screwing up coastlines and making for some deeply broken renders:
>>
>>        http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>>
>> Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within the last few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean coastline suitable for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik tiles in Hudson Bay, too:
>>
>>        http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M
>>
>> I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've managed to fix invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa and the dreaded Montréal area in an effort to generate a usable map of North America, but this Canvec stuff is absolutely killing me.
>
> I care about the coastline too,
> long time ago there used to be this:
> http://www.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html where anyone could go and
> fix coastline errors that did show up on a purpose made mapnik layer.
> I see there is a geofabrik layer for that same purpos, but it is
> limited just to europe.
>
> Michal, are you aware of any such layer, but worldwide?


I'm not, but it's a good idea. What about something like this, not a layer but a set of links to "type=2" errors found by the coastline checker?
        http://mike.teczno.com/img/osm-coastline-errors-nov15/

-mike.

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Coastline errors ( was Argh, Canvec imports)

David Groom
In reply to this post by Simone Cortesi
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Simone Cortesi" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Michal Migurski" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Talk Openstreetmap" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Argh, Canvec imports
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 08:40, Michal Migurski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> A cry of frustration:
>>
>> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines
>> (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a recurring
>> source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I consistently
>> see
>> new imports of what seems to be Canvec data screwing up coastlines and
>> making for some deeply broken renders:
>>
>> http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>>
>> Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within the
>> last few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean coastline
>> suitable for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik tiles in
>> Hudson
>> Bay, too:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M
>>
>> I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've managed to
>> fix invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa and the dreaded
>> Montréal area in an effort to generate a usable map of North America, but
>> this Canvec stuff is absolutely killing me.
>
> I care about the coastline too,
> long time ago there used to be this:
> http://www.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html where anyone could go and
> fix coastline errors that did show up on a purpose made mapnik layer.
> I see there is a geofabrik layer for that same purpos, but it is
> limited just to europe.
>
> Michal, are you aware of any such layer, but worldwide?

Simone

I use this  http://www.wightpaths.co.uk/coast/  . I generate the error
points from the error points shapefile at http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline

My version is not as comprehensive as the old version at
http://www.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html , since it only shows the error
points.   I try and remember to look every couple of weeks to see if there
are new extracts http://metro.teczno.com/, and then regenerate my error
file.

David





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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

David Groom
In reply to this post by Michal Migurski
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michal Migurski" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Talk Openstreetmap" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:40 AM
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Argh, Canvec imports
>
>
>
> A cry of frustration:
>
> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines
> (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a recurring
> source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I consistently see
> new imports of what seems to be Canvec data screwing up coastlines and
> making for some deeply broken renders:
>
> http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>
> Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within the
> last
> few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean coastline
> suitable
> for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik tiles in Hudson Bay,
> too:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M
>
> I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've managed to
> fix
> invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa and the dreaded
> Montréal
> area in an effort to generate a usable map of North America, but this
> Canvec
> stuff is absolutely killing me.
>
> -mike.

I know, this just looks so wrong to me:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1619985
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1613190
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1618562

and although these relations are not in themselves creating problems,
there's an error at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.11737&lon=-66.52564&zoom=15 , which is
difficult to fix without knowing how the ways making up these relations are
eventually going to end up.

Although over the last few months I've been going round trying to fix
coastline errors in the rest of the world, I'm afraid that I've virtually
given up trying to do anything in Canada

David





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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

Frank Steggink
On 17-11-2011 18:13, David Groom wrote:

>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal Migurski" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Talk Openstreetmap" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:40 AM
>> Subject: [OSM-talk] Argh, Canvec imports
>>
>>
>>
>> A cry of frustration:
>>
>> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines
>> (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a recurring
>> source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I
>> consistently see
>> new imports of what seems to be Canvec data screwing up coastlines and
>> making for some deeply broken renders:
>>
>> http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>>
>> Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within
>> the last
>> few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean coastline
>> suitable
>> for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik tiles in Hudson
>> Bay, too:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M
>>
>> I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've managed
>> to fix
>> invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa and the dreaded
>> Montréal
>> area in an effort to generate a usable map of North America, but this
>> Canvec
>> stuff is absolutely killing me.
>>
>> -mike.
>
> I know, this just looks so wrong to me:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1619985
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1613190
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1618562
>
> and although these relations are not in themselves creating problems,
> there's an error at
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.11737&lon=-66.52564&zoom=15 ,
> which is difficult to fix without knowing how the ways making up these
> relations are eventually going to end up.
>
> Although over the last few months I've been going round trying to fix
> coastline errors in the rest of the world, I'm afraid that I've
> virtually given up trying to do anything in Canada
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

Hi David,

Did you already contact that user?
This error is caused because the prepared Canvec OSM files also contain
waterbodies (natural=water) for areas which are actually in the ocean.
Someone importing Canvec is supposed to convert the boundaries to
coastlines (except for the sheet boundaries), and replace them with the
existing coastline, joining up at the sheet boundaries.

Frank

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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

Frank Steggink
In reply to this post by Michal Migurski
On 17-11-2011 16:54, Michal Migurski wrote:

> On Nov 17, 2011, at 6:46 AM, Frank Steggink wrote:
>
>> Quoting Michal Migurski<[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> A cry of frustration:
>>>
>>> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines  (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a  recurring source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I  consistently see new imports of what seems to be Canvec data  screwing up coastlines and making for some deeply broken renders:
>>>
>>> http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>> Hi Michal,
>>
>> The rendering error northeast of Quebec City was caused by a novice user who has adjusted the Canvec data which was already there. The import in this region was done by me about half a year ago.
>>
>> The user in question had adjusted the coastline tags to waterway=riverbank, in order for him to show it up properly on his GPS (while using mkgmap for the conversion). He already became aware of what he has done, and has fixed the error himself (which I think is laudable). I've done a check, and the coastline looks all right to me. I'm not sure what to do with the remaining waterway=riverbank tag. This is part of a larger discussion about what to do with large waterbodies.
>>
>> The slippy map doesn't show the corrected situation yet, because the coastline shapefile is not updated very often.
>
> I had noticed a lot of waterway=riverbank up there, you're right.
>
> The first black and white image I link above is derived from the current, November 10 planet dump, so it's a very recent picture of coastline errors. Many of those errors didn't exist in the coastline I made from the November 3 planet dump.
>
> Here are some sample locations in Canada where the checker has found errors:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.790035&lon=-94.202604&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.749700&lon=-92.698650&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.260826&lon=-66.086208&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.298267&lon=-66.117219&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.970073&lon=-92.627314&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.086208&lon=-70.745529&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=57.053591&lon=-92.000000&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.238757&lon=-66.055341&zoom=17&layers=M
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.936914&lon=-74.704294&zoom=17&layers=M
>
> -mike.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> michal migurski- [hidden email]
>                   415.558.1610
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
I've fixed some coastline issues at the Nelson River / Hayes River
mouths in the Hudson Bay, see [1]. There were some duplicated
coastlines, and an "inland" island (which was running the wrong way).
Near Churchill, MB [2] the coastline was already fixed by the Canvec
import user a few days ago. I didn't see any coastline mistakes there.
However, the treatment of "intermittent" water is far from perfect, and
not how I would have done it. I'd rather convert it to natural=wetland,
wetland = tidalflat, indicating that mudflats show up at low tide. Doing
this along the entire Canadian coastline, which is very extensive, is a
tough task. The coastline is really peculiar in some places, like here:
[3], so I'm afraid we haven't seen the last error. Tools assisting us in
error checks would be great, and absolutely necessary in the Canadian case.

Frank

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9856941
[2] http://osm.org/go/W6dBGeK-
[3] http://osm.org/go/W7CeaB


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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

David Groom
In reply to this post by Frank Steggink
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Steggink" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Argh, Canvec imports
>
>
>
> On 17-11-2011 18:13, David Groom wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal Migurski" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: "Talk Openstreetmap" <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:40 AM
>>> Subject: [OSM-talk] Argh, Canvec imports
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A cry of frustration:
>>>
>>> I do bimonthly runs of the worldwide coastlines
>>> (http://metro.teczno.com/#coastline), and Canada seems to be a recurring
>>> source of problems. What the heck is going on up there? I consistently
>>> see
>>> new imports of what seems to be Canvec data screwing up coastlines and
>>> making for some deeply broken renders:
>>>
>>> http://mike.teczno.com/img/broken-coast.png
>>>
>>> Most of that junk in the Atlantic Ocean is newly introduced within the
>>> last
>>> few weeks, and is making it difficult to get out a clean coastline
>>> suitable
>>> for rendering. It shows up in the main OSM mapnik tiles in Hudson Bay,
>>> too:
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.7&lon=-83.6&zoom=5&layers=M
>>>
>>> I've been trying to fix problems as I encounter them and I've managed to
>>> fix
>>> invalid coastilnes around Baltimore, Houston, Tampa and the dreaded
>>> Montréal
>>> area in an effort to generate a usable map of North America, but this
>>> Canvec
>>> stuff is absolutely killing me.
>>>
>>> -mike.
>>
>> I know, this just looks so wrong to me:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1619985
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1613190
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1618562
>>
>> and although these relations are not in themselves creating problems,
>> there's an error at
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.11737&lon=-66.52564&zoom=15 , which
>> is difficult to fix without knowing how the ways making up these
>> relations are eventually going to end up.
>>
>> Although over the last few months I've been going round trying to fix
>> coastline errors in the rest of the world, I'm afraid that I've virtually
>> given up trying to do anything in Canada
>>
>> David
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> Hi David,
>
> Did you already contact that user?

Frank

I haven't contacted the user, because from reading
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canvec  I could not find enough
information to tell him what he should be doing.

I will however now contact him and copy the information you have given
below, and suggest he ask on talk-ca if he has any other problems

Regards

David

> This error is caused because the prepared Canvec OSM files also contain
> waterbodies (natural=water) for areas which are actually in the ocean.
> Someone importing Canvec is supposed to convert the boundaries to
> coastlines (except for the sheet boundaries), and replace them with the
> existing coastline, joining up at the sheet boundaries.
>
> Frank





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Re: Argh, Canvec imports

Michal Migurski
On Nov 17, 2011, at 12:24 PM, David Groom wrote:

>>> Although over the last few months I've been going round trying to fix coastline errors in the rest of the world, I'm afraid that I've virtually given up trying to do anything in Canada
>>>
>>> David
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Did you already contact that user?
>
> Frank
>
> I haven't contacted the user, because from reading http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canvec  I could not find enough information to tell him what he should be doing.
>
> I will however now contact him and copy the information you have given below, and suggest he ask on talk-ca if he has any other problems


Thanks David, you've got more patience for this than I do. I forced myself to learn JOSM to fix some of the river/coast interactions around Montréal. =)

-mike.

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