Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only)

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Re: postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

Gareth L
I’ve certainly seen full addresses + postcode on the outside of some businesses. Never on a house though. 

Leeds and London and a few other towns have partial postcodes on street signs.

That wiki page could do with an update and  links to current acceptable sources. (As it is flagged as out of date)


On 30 Jul 2019, at 14:20, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:




30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by [hidden email]:
10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on buildings or postboxes?


I am asking as it may be a suitable quest for StreetComplete.
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Re: postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

ndrw6
In reply to this post by Mateusz Konieczny-3
Only postbox reference numbers, which are somewhat related to local postcodes (share the first few characters). It may still be useful to add such quest to StreetComplete.

Retail businesses and amenities tend to advertise their full addresses, including a postcode but there is no rule to that.

Best regards,
ndrw6


On 30 July 2019 15:19:46 CEST, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:



30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by [hidden email]:
10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on buildings or postboxes?


I am asking as it may be a suitable quest for StreetComplete.

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Re: postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

Philip Barnes
We can use fhrs to obtain postcodes for businesses which sell food and drink, and these can be extended to other premises.

Residential areas are rather more difficult.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Tuesday, 30 July 2019, Andrzej wrote:

> Only postbox reference numbers, which are somewhat related to local postcodes (share the first few characters). It may still be useful to add such quest to StreetComplete.
>
> Retail businesses and amenities tend to advertise their full addresses, including a postcode but there is no rule to that.
>
> Best regards,
> ndrw6
>
>
> On 30 July 2019 15:19:46 CEST, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by [hidden email]:
> >
> >> 10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
> >>
> >Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on
> >buildings or postboxes?
> >
> >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_postcodes
> ><https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_postcodes> is not
> >clear,
> >http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/06/my-postbox-obsession
> ><http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/06/my-postbox-obsession> suggest
> >that it may be true.
> >
> >I am asking as it may be a suitable quest for StreetComplete.
>

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Re: postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

David Woolley
In reply to this post by Mateusz Konieczny-3
On 30/07/2019 14:19, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on
> buildings or postboxes?

Postcodes almost never.  The only time you would normally find them is
where the building is a company's registered office.

Housenumbers seem to be only on (gut feeling) about 30% of houses these
days, and maybe 5% of commercial premises.  (When they are on houses,
they are typically unreadable after dark.  Almost no-one has front gates
any longer, which might have carried them in the past.)

What appears on street signs and post boxes is the outbound postcode (up
to the end of the first number).

Businesses are required to provide an address for service in
advertising, including web sites.  This may well be their accountant's.
Electronically, they need to provide a geographic address, but, on
paper, I think a PO Box number is acceptable.  Non-compliance is
endemic, e.g. businesses only contactable over mobile phone numbers.

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Re: postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

Philip Barnes
Not displaying a house number is particularly prevalent with 'end of cul-de-sac' man where this makes working out where odd and even meet.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Tuesday, 30 July 2019, David Woolley wrote:

> On 30/07/2019 14:19, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on
> > buildings or postboxes?
>
> Postcodes almost never.  The only time you would normally find them is
> where the building is a company's registered office.
>
> Housenumbers seem to be only on (gut feeling) about 30% of houses these
> days, and maybe 5% of commercial premises.  (When they are on houses,
> they are typically unreadable after dark.  Almost no-one has front gates
> any longer, which might have carried them in the past.)
>
> What appears on street signs and post boxes is the outbound postcode (up
> to the end of the first number).
>
> Businesses are required to provide an address for service in
> advertising, including web sites.  This may well be their accountant's.
> Electronically, they need to provide a geographic address, but, on
> paper, I think a PO Box number is acceptable.  Non-compliance is
> endemic, e.g. businesses only contactable over mobile phone numbers.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>

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Valuation Office Agency council tax data (was postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

Stephen Colebourne
In reply to this post by David Woolley
What about the Valuation Office Agency council tax data?
http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp

I found this recently, and it allows you to lookup from a postcode to
the individual addresses (presumably in their standard recognised
form). I've not used the data, although I'd love to because it is so
good.

Is it open data? Well, it has "Crown Copyright" at the bottom, so
maybe? I'd love to know if this dataset has been considered before, as
it can turn a postcode into something wereally need.

If I've understood the rules, the data could be used in reverse ie. to
use as clues to try and confirm when surveying, so long as only the
things you see on the ground are added?

Stephen


On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 14:54, David Woolley <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 30/07/2019 14:19, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on
> > buildings or postboxes?
>
> Postcodes almost never.  The only time you would normally find them is
> where the building is a company's registered office.
>
> Housenumbers seem to be only on (gut feeling) about 30% of houses these
> days, and maybe 5% of commercial premises.  (When they are on houses,
> they are typically unreadable after dark.  Almost no-one has front gates
> any longer, which might have carried them in the past.)
>
> What appears on street signs and post boxes is the outbound postcode (up
> to the end of the first number).
>
> Businesses are required to provide an address for service in
> advertising, including web sites.  This may well be their accountant's.
> Electronically, they need to provide a geographic address, but, on
> paper, I think a PO Box number is acceptable.  Non-compliance is
> endemic, e.g. businesses only contactable over mobile phone numbers.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

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Re: Valuation Office Agency council tax data (was postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

Tom Hughes-3
On 30/07/2019 15:12, Stephen Colebourne wrote:

> Is it open data? Well, it has "Crown Copyright" at the bottom, so
> maybe? I'd love to know if this dataset has been considered before, as
> it can turn a postcode into something wereally need.

What part of "crown copyright" says "open data" to you?

What it says to me is "copyright for 50 years from the end of
the year when it was published" so unless there is some license
allowing it's use then no, it can't be used.

Tom

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Re: Valuation Office Agency council tax data (was postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

David Woolley
In reply to this post by Stephen Colebourne
On 30/07/2019 15:12, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> What about the Valuation Office Agency council tax data?
> http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp
>
> I found this recently, and it allows you to lookup from a postcode to
> the individual addresses (presumably in their standard recognised
> form). I've not used the data, although I'd love to because it is so
> good.

Anything giving standard form is going to be a derivative of PAF and/or
UPRN databases.

The argument for the food safety data is the addresses are as provided
by the business.  The reason you can't use Land Registry information is
that the addresses have been validated.

I suspect the Post Office might challenge even the food safety data if
OSM postcode coverages started to seriously compete.

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