On 21/11/2020 10:42, Andre Hinrichs via
talk wrote:
Hi!
Difficult to find, but here are the changesets where i left comments:
93965382
94097597
94134166
And the links to them:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93965382
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94097597
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94134166
Andre
Hello,
A couple of points immediately spring to mind. Apologies to
anyone on this list who's seen me make these sort of points
before, but sometimes I think it bears repeating. I'll use your
messages here as an example but to be honest what I'm about to say
applies to lots of inter-mapper communication within OSM.
One is that you've left changeset comments in English, and here
this editor is editing in Finland with a "fi" locale, as you can
see at the changeset:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94134166 . The Åland
Islands (where this is) are actually Swedish speaking I believe,
but the mapper has edited in other places in Finland too, Not
everyone in Finland understands English - my impression (from when
I used to work there) was that many do, but plenty don't, and it
often depends on the job that someone does or how old they are
whether they are likely to or not.
Another is that your three messages are fairly abrupt and by the
second and third have got capitalised words in them. Finnish as a
language never uses 3 words where 1 will do, so this contributor
will be used to terse communication, but you still need to
communicate effectively.
Taking https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93965382 as an
example, you've said that there is a problem with coastlines (but
not said exactly which OSM feature they edited it was), told them
not to edit coastlines again but then asked them to fix the
problem. At the very least the advice is self-contradictory.
The other two, https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94097597
and https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94134166 , are
probably best described as "shouting at someone in a foreign
language"**, and are unlikely to have the desired effect. Also,
well-meaning changes aren't "vandalism" - they may cause
significant problems that need fixing, but they're not vandalism.
What I'd suggest instead is:
- Write a longer initial changeset comment, as if you were
communicating with another human being for the first time (which
of course you are).
- Look at the context to see things like where this mapper is
mapping geographically, what language they are likely to
understand, and how long have they been mapping in OSM.
- Link to things that explain the problem - here perhaps
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Coastline#Tagging_coastlines_in_OSM
, one of the QA sites that show these sorts of problems and the
specific ways or relations in their changeset that caused the
problem.
- Try and be consistent - if you say "you've broken X please
don't edit it again" then logically you must offer to fix X
yourself; alternatively you need to explain how they can fix X
themselves, since they clearly don't know how to, having caused
the problem in the first place.
- Also post your comment in a language that they are likely to
understand. An online translator such as translate.google.com
won't be perfect*, but at least it'll convert your message into
words in a language with which they are familiar.
- As has already been suggested, by all means do ask the DWG to
deal with it if you've tried to get in contact and communication
isn't occurring.
Best Regards,
Andy
* actually (having just tested it) translate.google.com does a
surprising good job of detecting cases in English and choosing the
correct word ending, which is how those are expressed in Finnish
** yes - I know - I'm English, and it is something that we are
somewhat renowned for.
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