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Building parts

Xan-3
Hi,

I use building:part=yes, area=yes and name=Mòdul X for marking the parts of a great building of the Hospital of Son Espases [http://osm.org/go/xUK5EkvLR-]. But in the map, there are not shown names. Why?

How can I do that?

Thanks in advance,
Xan.

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Re: Building parts

Richard Weait
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I use building:part=yes, area=yes and name=Mòdul X for marking the parts of a great building of the Hospital of Son Espases [http://osm.org/go/xUK5EkvLR-]. But in the map, there are not shown names. Why?
>
> How can I do that?

Like all custom rendering questions, there several potential answers:

1) do it yourself - set up your own renderer, or other rendering
solution, and include support for names of building parts.

2) hire somebody to do it for you.

3) convince an existing renderer-operator to support rendering of
names of building parts.  Often this is helped by providing the
patches required to do so.

building:part is used in less than 0.1% of buildings.

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Re: Building parts

Xan-3
Richard, thanks for answering but your solution does not serve me.
I ask you another way: how should I tag it for getting to show the names in a building in rendering engine?

  * I could mark parts of building as "place=locality" and "name=X" but it's awful.
  * The airport has gate support [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Dgate] but my building is hospital, no airport....

Any ideas...?

Thanks.

On Sun, 4 May 2014 20:13:13 -0400
Richard Weait <[hidden email]> ha escrit:

> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I use building:part=yes, area=yes and name=Mòdul X for marking the parts of a great building of the Hospital of Son Espases [http://osm.org/go/xUK5EkvLR-]. But in the map, there are not shown names. Why?
> >
> > How can I do that?
>
> Like all custom rendering questions, there several potential answers:
>
> 1) do it yourself - set up your own renderer, or other rendering
> solution, and include support for names of building parts.
>
> 2) hire somebody to do it for you.
>
> 3) convince an existing renderer-operator to support rendering of
> names of building parts.  Often this is helped by providing the
> patches required to do so.
>
> building:part is used in less than 0.1% of buildings.
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

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Wrong Error report in JOSM (?)

Gys de Jongh
Hi,
I'm a user of JOSM, not a develloper. I have ask similar questions in the
Dutch user forum, but only got replies like : "Yep, the validation in JOSM
might not be optimal"

I'm a user and editor of the recreational cycle network in The Netherlands
and it can cost me considerable time to figure out what's wrong with network
relations. Especially so when infact the error report is the only thing
that's wrong  :(

Here is one of many examples :

network=rcn
note=23-62
route=bicycle
type=route
Relation ID=1263377

JOSM 7000 Validation :
Role forward unknown
Role backward unknown

http://ra.osmsurround.org/

Great! This relation seems ok. This relation can be connected as one piece.

Rating
The relation analyzer (RA) tries to assemble the relation data to see if it
is in one piece (either a line with just two ends, or Y-shaped, or more
complicated). The pieces are assembled using rules which include looking at
roles such as "forward" and "backward". If a relation cannot be connected
into one single piece, the RA will create more than one.

Can someone enlight me please ?

Gys


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Re: Wrong Error report in JOSM (?)

SomeoneElse
Gys de Jongh wrote:
... Especially so when infact the error report is the only thing
that's wrong  :(

Here is one of many examples :

network=rcn
note=23-62
route=bicycle
type=route
Relation ID=1263377

JOSM 7000 Validation :
Role forward unknown
Role backward unknown


JOSM does seem to have a habit of "crying wolf" more often now than it used to - and if it's not explaining why it doesn't like forward/backward on cycle route relations, then arguably that's a bug in JOSM since it hasn't communicated the problem to you (or me).  I'm not sure how many people with in-depth knowledge of JOSM's validation rules follow this list - but if you don't get an answer here you might try asking on the help site:

https://help.openstreetmap.org/

or perhaps even the JOSM-dev list:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev

However, looking at the relation one thing does strike me as odd - it's essentially two letter "Y"s joined together

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1263377#map=17/51.66097/5.28077&layers=CN

All way members have got forward or backward on them, apart from the bit in the middle

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/7075208#map=17/51.66096/5.27969&layers=CN


This means that, despite what ra.osmsurround.org says, it's not actually contiguous.  This may be deliberate, since it's part of a larger relation (and it doesn't seem to be what JOSM's complaining about), but I thought tha I'd better mention it just in case.

Cheers,

Andy



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Re: Building parts

Serge Wroclawski-2
In reply to this post by Xan-3
Xan,

Richard's answer was complete and correct. There is a term in OSM,
"Don't tag for the renderer":

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer

Richard was saying that since the thing you want is not rendered by
the default renderer, you can either fix it yourself (ie make a patch
and submit it back) or make your own custom map.

Do not add a different tag just to make the thing appear on the map.
If you do, you are very likely to have your contribution deleted.

- Serge

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:59 AM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Richard, thanks for answering but your solution does not serve me.
> I ask you another way: how should I tag it for getting to show the names in a building in rendering engine?
>
>   * I could mark parts of building as "place=locality" and "name=X" but it's awful.
>   * The airport has gate support [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Dgate] but my building is hospital, no airport....
>
> Any ideas...?
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Sun, 4 May 2014 20:13:13 -0400
> Richard Weait <[hidden email]> ha escrit:
>
>> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I use building:part=yes, area=yes and name=Mòdul X for marking the parts of a great building of the Hospital of Son Espases [http://osm.org/go/xUK5EkvLR-]. But in the map, there are not shown names. Why?
>> >
>> > How can I do that?
>>
>> Like all custom rendering questions, there several potential answers:
>>
>> 1) do it yourself - set up your own renderer, or other rendering
>> solution, and include support for names of building parts.
>>
>> 2) hire somebody to do it for you.
>>
>> 3) convince an existing renderer-operator to support rendering of
>> names of building parts.  Often this is helped by providing the
>> patches required to do so.
>>
>> building:part is used in less than 0.1% of buildings.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> newbies mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

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Re: Building parts

Pieren
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Richard was saying that since the thing you want is not rendered by
> the default renderer, you can either fix it yourself (ie make a patch
> and submit it back) or make your own custom map.

or check the "French" tile server :-)
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=18&lat=39.60724&lon=2.64452&layers=B0000000FFFFFFF

Pieren

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Re: Building parts

Xan-3
Mmm... A joke?
Why in French tile server it works and in "main" does not?

Thanks, Pieren, for the link.

Xan.

On Mon, 5 May 2014 12:57:26 +0200
Pieren <[hidden email]> ha escrit:

> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Richard was saying that since the thing you want is not rendered by
> > the default renderer, you can either fix it yourself (ie make a patch
> > and submit it back) or make your own custom map.
>
> or check the "French" tile server :-)
> http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=18&lat=39.60724&lon=2.64452&layers=B0000000FFFFFFF
>
> Pieren
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

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Re: Building parts

Pieren
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Mmm... A joke?
> Why in French tile server it works and in "main" does not?

The French tile server is using a forked rendering style file. Some
stuff have been improved on the French style only (and probably others
have been done in the standard style only). It's done by different
people. This is the OSM "do-ocraty" principle.
Also the amount of details is so high now in OSM that maintainers have
to decide what to render or not at which zoom level. Personal taste
and affinity is playing a role as well, I guess.

Pieren

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Re: Building parts

Xan-3
OK. Thanks.

On Mon, 5 May 2014 15:13:29 +0200
Pieren <[hidden email]> ha escrit:

> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Mmm... A joke?
> > Why in French tile server it works and in "main" does not?
>
> The French tile server is using a forked rendering style file. Some
> stuff have been improved on the French style only (and probably others
> have been done in the standard style only). It's done by different
> people. This is the OSM "do-ocraty" principle.
> Also the amount of details is so high now in OSM that maintainers have
> to decide what to render or not at which zoom level. Personal taste
> and affinity is playing a role as well, I guess.
>
> Pieren
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

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Re: Wrong Error report in JOSM (?)

Gys de Jongh
In reply to this post by SomeoneElse

Hi Andy,

thanks for your reply.

 

You are right the route is two letters Y joined together. It might look odd but Imo this is a combination of 3 factors :

 

1) The elaborate cycle infra structure in The Netherlands. For our local hero have a look at this blog :  http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/

 

The two branches of the top Y are two completely separate bicycle tracks along a motorway. Same for the two branches of the lower Y. The piece you highlighted and has no attached role is an old village road with no separate bicycle tracks. The cycle route uses this piece both to travel from 23 to 62 as well as to travel from 62 to 23

 

2) The actual route made by the people who maintain them. Which is apparent from the little whight/green cycle node signs. The little piece with the backward role is not a oneway road. It connects the residential road with the roundabout. You could travel in the other direction then the direction in which the road was drawn. Meaning you won't get trouble with the police. But the people who maintain the network decided that you should only use that piece opposite to the direction it was drawn.

 

3) In which case Osm wants the role to be "backward" or I could change the direction of drawing of that piece of road to stop JOSM from cying "wolf" But that is not recommended and feels like tagging for the renderer.

 

If you zoom a bit further on your own link of the relation than you will see that the top Y ends in two rcn_ref=23 and the lower Y ends in two rcn_ref=62 . Both rcn_ref=23 and rcn_ref=62 are just on the left and right side of the road.

 

The physical situation for both is a motorway with two completely separate bicyle tracks. So the two nodes rcn_ref=62 are maybe 20 meters apart. Same for rcn_ref=23. In that case the recommende solution is two nodes with the same number in stead of painstakingly splitting up to connect the cycletrack for 23-62 with the cycle track for 62-23

 

So,

I really don't see anything wrong.

 

The relation is continuous now. It was not before. This actually is the reason I edited it. I must have travalled this route by bike a few hundred times at least, so I know the situation.  JOSM validation can generate a "not continuous error" but it nolonger does so.

 

The "wrong role" error in the JOSM validator can be selected while you have the relation editor open, but nothing is highligted there. On the map the whole relation is highligted. Not very helpfull  :(

 

Thanks for the links and suggestions

I posted my question on gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.josm.devel , on gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.user and on https://help.openstreetmap.org/

 

Thanks again

Gys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: SomeoneElse [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 10:01
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSM-newbies] Wrong Error report in JOSM (?)

 

Gys de Jongh wrote:

... Especially so when infact the error report is the only thing
that's wrong  :(
 
Here is one of many examples :
 
network=rcn
note=23-62
route=bicycle
type=route
Relation ID=1263377
 
JOSM 7000 Validation :
Role forward unknown
Role backward unknown
 


JOSM does seem to have a habit of "crying wolf" more often now than it used to - and if it's not explaining why it doesn't like forward/backward on cycle route relations, then arguably that's a bug in JOSM since it hasn't communicated the problem to you (or me).  I'm not sure how many people with in-depth knowledge of JOSM's validation rules follow this list - but if you don't get an answer here you might try asking on the help site:

https://help.openstreetmap.org/

or perhaps even the JOSM-dev list:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev

However, looking at the relation one thing does strike me as odd - it's essentially two letter "Y"s joined together

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1263377#map=17/51.66097/5.28077&layers=CN

All way members have got forward or backward on them, apart from the bit in the middle

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/7075208#map=17/51.66096/5.27969&layers=CN


This means that, despite what ra.osmsurround.org says, it's not actually contiguous.  This may be deliberate, since it's part of a larger relation (and it doesn't seem to be what JOSM's complaining about), but I thought tha I'd better mention it just in case.

Cheers,

Andy


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Re: Wrong Error report in JOSM (?)

Gys de Jongh
In reply to this post by SomeoneElse

If I use this

 

http://yournavigation.org/index.php

 

service and zoom in maximally then the shortes bicycle route from the western rcn_ref=23 to the western rcn_ref=62 is drawn completely as intended by the maintainers of the cycle network.

 

The shortes bicycle route from eastern rcn_ref=62 to the eastern rcn_ref=23 is drawn as intended by the maintainers of the cycle network if I add one extra waypoint in the first roudabout junction Postweg/Loonsebaan. If I leave this extra waypoint out then then the calculated route follows this roundabout junction in the other direction. Which is both legal and possible but not as intended by the maintainers of the cycle network.

 

Again the route relation seems perfectly Ok

 

Gys de Jongh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Gys de Jongh [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 23:24
To: 'Help for newbie mappers'
Subject: RE: [OSM-newbies] Wrong Error report in JOSM (?)

 

Hi Andy,

thanks for your reply.

 

You are right the route is two letters Y joined together. It might look odd but Imo this is a combination of 3 factors :

 

1) The elaborate cycle infra structure in The Netherlands. For our local hero have a look at this blog :  http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/

 

The two branches of the top Y are two completely separate bicycle tracks along a motorway. Same for the two branches of the lower Y. The piece you highlighted and has no attached role is an old village road with no separate bicycle tracks. The cycle route uses this piece both to travel from 23 to 62 as well as to travel from 62 to 23

 

2) The actual route made by the people who maintain them. Which is apparent from the little whight/green cycle node signs. The little piece with the backward role is not a oneway road. It connects the residential road with the roundabout. You could travel in the other direction then the direction in which the road was drawn. Meaning you won't get trouble with the police. But the people who maintain the network decided that you should only use that piece opposite to the direction it was drawn.

 

3) In which case Osm wants the role to be "backward" or I could change the direction of drawing of that piece of road to stop JOSM from cying "wolf" But that is not recommended and feels like tagging for the renderer.

 

If you zoom a bit further on your own link of the relation than you will see that the top Y ends in two rcn_ref=23 and the lower Y ends in two rcn_ref=62 . Both rcn_ref=23 and rcn_ref=62 are just on the left and right side of the road.

 

The physical situation for both is a motorway with two completely separate bicyle tracks. So the two nodes rcn_ref=62 are maybe 20 meters apart. Same for rcn_ref=23. In that case the recommende solution is two nodes with the same number in stead of painstakingly splitting up to connect the cycletrack for 23-62 with the cycle track for 62-23

 

So,

I really don't see anything wrong.

 

The relation is continuous now. It was not before. This actually is the reason I edited it. I must have travalled this route by bike a few hundred times at least, so I know the situation.  JOSM validation can generate a "not continuous error" but it nolonger does so.

 

The "wrong role" error in the JOSM validator can be selected while you have the relation editor open, but nothing is highligted there. On the map the whole relation is highligted. Not very helpfull  :(

 

Thanks for the links and suggestions

I posted my question on gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.josm.devel , on gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.user and on https://help.openstreetmap.org/

 

Thanks again

Gys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: SomeoneElse [[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 10:01
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSM-newbies] Wrong Error report in JOSM (?)

 

Gys de Jongh wrote:

... Especially so when infact the error report is the only thing
that's wrong  :(
 
Here is one of many examples :
 
network=rcn
note=23-62
route=bicycle
type=route
Relation ID=1263377
 
JOSM 7000 Validation :
Role forward unknown
Role backward unknown
 


JOSM does seem to have a habit of "crying wolf" more often now than it used to - and if it's not explaining why it doesn't like forward/backward on cycle route relations, then arguably that's a bug in JOSM since it hasn't communicated the problem to you (or me).  I'm not sure how many people with in-depth knowledge of JOSM's validation rules follow this list - but if you don't get an answer here you might try asking on the help site:

https://help.openstreetmap.org/

or perhaps even the JOSM-dev list:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev

However, looking at the relation one thing does strike me as odd - it's essentially two letter "Y"s joined together

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1263377#map=17/51.66097/5.28077&layers=CN

All way members have got forward or backward on them, apart from the bit in the middle

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/7075208#map=17/51.66096/5.27969&layers=CN


This means that, despite what ra.osmsurround.org says, it's not actually contiguous.  This may be deliberate, since it's part of a larger relation (and it doesn't seem to be what JOSM's complaining about), but I thought tha I'd better mention it just in case.

Cheers,

Andy


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