Caltex on name-suggestion-index

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Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Charles Gregory
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

I'm asking because I'm matching a few brands of local chains on OSM, and notice that Caltex entries default to Woolworths Petrol.  

The NSI info seems to have both using "brand=Caltex" but the Woolworths ones take priority in Australia:

 
"amenity/fuel|Caltex": {
"tags": {
"amenity": "fuel",
"brand": "Caltex",
"brand:wikidata": "Q277470",
"brand:wikipedia": "en:Caltex",
"name": "Caltex"
}
},

"amenity/fuel|Woolworths Petrol": {
"countryCodes": ["au"],
"nomatch": [
"shop/convenience|Woolworths Petrol"
],
"tags": {
"amenity": "fuel",
"brand": "Caltex",
"brand:wikidata": "Q5023980",
"brand:wikipedia": "en:Caltex Woolworths",
"name": "Woolworths Petrol"
}
},

I'm thinking it might be a local idiosyncrasy - there are a range of Caltex stations near me in southern Tasmania - some are owned/co-branded under a local company (Bennetts Petroleum), some are Caltex Woolworths branded, and there may be others which are neither.

Any input welcome!

Charles
(user:chuq on OSM)




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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Alex (Maxious) Sadleir
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:55 PM Charles Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

"What is the difference between [the 535] Woolworths Caltex and [the 680] Caltex locations? 
Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths owned fuel location, that sells Caltex fuel. The shop at a Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths store.  
The shop at a Caltex location can be a Star Mart, Star Shop or The Foodary."

The map on their website makes a distinction between the two when you click on it https://www.caltex.com.au/find-a-caltex 

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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Ian Sergeant-2
Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true.  Some Caltex operated sites still branded as Woolworths Caltex, and offered the Woolworths facilities.  You couldn't tell just by looking who owned what. 

Of course, now Woolworths has sold all its fuel outlets, and doesn't operate as a fuel retailer any longer.

I'd go by the name on the sign - as these are likely to change over the past few months as the Caltex owned stores all revert to form.

Ian.

On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 14:51, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:55 PM Charles Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

"What is the difference between [the 535] Woolworths Caltex and [the 680] Caltex locations? 
Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths owned fuel location, that sells Caltex fuel. The shop at a Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths store.  
The shop at a Caltex location can be a Star Mart, Star Shop or The Foodary."

The map on their website makes a distinction between the two when you click on it https://www.caltex.com.au/find-a-caltex 
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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Charles Gregory
Thanks Alex and Ian,

So it seems there are plenty of standard Caltex service stations in Australia - any advice on how to stop entries labelled "Caltex" from auto resolving to a "Woolworths Petrol" location when "update these tags" is used?

Just changed the "brand" on the second entry in my original post from "Caltex" to "Caltex Woolworths"?

I could play about of course, but I don't want to break things!

Regards,
Charles



On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ian Sergeant <[hidden email]> wrote:
Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true.  Some Caltex operated sites still branded as Woolworths Caltex, and offered the Woolworths facilities.  You couldn't tell just by looking who owned what. 

Of course, now Woolworths has sold all its fuel outlets, and doesn't operate as a fuel retailer any longer.

I'd go by the name on the sign - as these are likely to change over the past few months as the Caltex owned stores all revert to form.

Ian.

On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 14:51, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:55 PM Charles Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

"What is the difference between [the 535] Woolworths Caltex and [the 680] Caltex locations? 
Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths owned fuel location, that sells Caltex fuel. The shop at a Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths store.  
The shop at a Caltex location can be a Star Mart, Star Shop or The Foodary."

The map on their website makes a distinction between the two when you click on it https://www.caltex.com.au/find-a-caltex 
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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Mateusz Konieczny-3
Can you link to an affected OSM object? It sounded like something caused by
name-suggestion-index, but I see no matches in
that would cause this.

The same for

It also appears to not be caused by recent changes from looking at
and
https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/commits/0d944dde401119d3aa767c18b68ee44b112fa4ba/brands/amenity/fuel.json

-------

BTW, I made a small tool that list what name-suggestion-index considers as matches -
examples from Manhattan:

name=Adidas - proposed change from `shop=clothes` to `shop=sports` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6187504686

name=Dollar Tree - proposed change from `shop=convenience` to `shop=variety_store` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5625761131

name=Timberland - proposed change from `shop=shoes` to `shop=clothes` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2709306607


name=FedEx Office - proposed change from `amenity=post_office` to `shop=copyshop` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5978745700

Such list may be used both to look for some mistakes in a local area and for

mistakes in name-suggestion-index.


If somebody would be interested I can generate it for any location (I need just location,

how large area should be covered and how long list is requested)

29 May 2019, 01:17 by [hidden email]:
Thanks Alex and Ian,

So it seems there are plenty of standard Caltex service stations in Australia - any advice on how to stop entries labelled "Caltex" from auto resolving to a "Woolworths Petrol" location when "update these tags" is used?

Just changed the "brand" on the second entry in my original post from "Caltex" to "Caltex Woolworths"?

I could play about of course, but I don't want to break things!

Regards,
Charles



On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ian Sergeant <[hidden email]> wrote:
Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true.  Some Caltex operated sites still branded as Woolworths Caltex, and offered the Woolworths facilities.  You couldn't tell just by looking who owned what. 

Of course, now Woolworths has sold all its fuel outlets, and doesn't operate as a fuel retailer any longer.

I'd go by the name on the sign - as these are likely to change over the past few months as the Caltex owned stores all revert to form.

Ian.

On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 14:51, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:55 PM Charles Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

"What is the difference between [the 535] Woolworths Caltex and [the 680] Caltex locations? 
Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths owned fuel location, that sells Caltex fuel. The shop at a Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths store.  
The shop at a Caltex location can be a Star Mart, Star Shop or The Foodary."

The map on their website makes a distinction between the two when you click on it https://www.caltex.com.au/find-a-caltex 
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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Graeme Fitzpatrick
Is there a simple, easy to read (ie not Github code! :-)) list of these preset names?

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 29 May 2019 at 22:00, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you link to an affected OSM object? It sounded like something caused by
name-suggestion-index, but I see no matches in
that would cause this.

The same for

It also appears to not be caused by recent changes from looking at
and

-------

BTW, I made a small tool that list what name-suggestion-index considers as matches -
examples from Manhattan:

name=Adidas - proposed change from `shop=clothes` to `shop=sports` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6187504686

name=Dollar Tree - proposed change from `shop=convenience` to `shop=variety_store` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5625761131

name=Timberland - proposed change from `shop=shoes` to `shop=clothes` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2709306607


name=FedEx Office - proposed change from `amenity=post_office` to `shop=copyshop` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5978745700

Such list may be used both to look for some mistakes in a local area and for

mistakes in name-suggestion-index.


If somebody would be interested I can generate it for any location (I need just location,

how large area should be covered and how long list is requested)

29 May 2019, 01:17 by [hidden email]:
Thanks Alex and Ian,

So it seems there are plenty of standard Caltex service stations in Australia - any advice on how to stop entries labelled "Caltex" from auto resolving to a "Woolworths Petrol" location when "update these tags" is used?

Just changed the "brand" on the second entry in my original post from "Caltex" to "Caltex Woolworths"?

I could play about of course, but I don't want to break things!

Regards,
Charles



On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ian Sergeant <[hidden email]> wrote:
Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true.  Some Caltex operated sites still branded as Woolworths Caltex, and offered the Woolworths facilities.  You couldn't tell just by looking who owned what. 

Of course, now Woolworths has sold all its fuel outlets, and doesn't operate as a fuel retailer any longer.

I'd go by the name on the sign - as these are likely to change over the past few months as the Caltex owned stores all revert to form.

Ian.

On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 14:51, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:55 PM Charles Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

"What is the difference between [the 535] Woolworths Caltex and [the 680] Caltex locations? 
Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths owned fuel location, that sells Caltex fuel. The shop at a Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths store.  
The shop at a Caltex location can be a Star Mart, Star Shop or The Foodary."

The map on their website makes a distinction between the two when you click on it https://www.caltex.com.au/find-a-caltex 
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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Phil Wyatt
It’s pretty easy here

http://osmlab.github.io/name-suggestion-index/brands/amenity/fuel.html


Cheers - Phil, 
On the road with his iPad 

On 1 Jun 2019, at 4:43 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is there a simple, easy to read (ie not Github code! :-)) list of these preset names?

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 29 May 2019 at 22:00, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you link to an affected OSM object? It sounded like something caused by
name-suggestion-index, but I see no matches in
that would cause this.

The same for

It also appears to not be caused by recent changes from looking at
and

-------

BTW, I made a small tool that list what name-suggestion-index considers as matches -
examples from Manhattan:

name=Adidas - proposed change from `shop=clothes` to `shop=sports` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6187504686

name=Dollar Tree - proposed change from `shop=convenience` to `shop=variety_store` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5625761131

name=Timberland - proposed change from `shop=shoes` to `shop=clothes` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2709306607


name=FedEx Office - proposed change from `amenity=post_office` to `shop=copyshop` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5978745700

Such list may be used both to look for some mistakes in a local area and for

mistakes in name-suggestion-index.


If somebody would be interested I can generate it for any location (I need just location,

how large area should be covered and how long list is requested)

29 May 2019, 01:17 by [hidden email]:
Thanks Alex and Ian,

So it seems there are plenty of standard Caltex service stations in Australia - any advice on how to stop entries labelled "Caltex" from auto resolving to a "Woolworths Petrol" location when "update these tags" is used?

Just changed the "brand" on the second entry in my original post from "Caltex" to "Caltex Woolworths"?

I could play about of course, but I don't want to break things!

Regards,
Charles



On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ian Sergeant <[hidden email]> wrote:
Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true.  Some Caltex operated sites still branded as Woolworths Caltex, and offered the Woolworths facilities.  You couldn't tell just by looking who owned what. 

Of course, now Woolworths has sold all its fuel outlets, and doesn't operate as a fuel retailer any longer.

I'd go by the name on the sign - as these are likely to change over the past few months as the Caltex owned stores all revert to form.

Ian.

On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 14:51, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:55 PM Charles Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

"What is the difference between [the 535] Woolworths Caltex and [the 680] Caltex locations? 
Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths owned fuel location, that sells Caltex fuel. The shop at a Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths store.  
The shop at a Caltex location can be a Star Mart, Star Shop or The Foodary."

The map on their website makes a distinction between the two when you click on it https://www.caltex.com.au/find-a-caltex 
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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
intended as readable index of data. Though it is containing only partial extract -
for example match information seems currently missing, maybe it would be worth
adding there.


At this moment I see no way to exclude entries known to be not existing in Australia,
but it should be relatively easy to add this - would it be useful?

1 Jun 2019, 08:43 by [hidden email]:
Is there a simple, easy to read (ie not Github code! :-)) list of these preset names?
See above! JSON is often described as human-readable, it is more of
programmer-readable but it is not so terrible.

For full data info one can start at
select first key and later its value.

For given entry, for example
it has some info:

> "amenity/fuel|Costco Gasoline"
name of the entry

> "countryCodes": ["au", "ca", "mx", "us"],
limited to this countries (Australia, Canada, Mexico, USA)

> "matchNames": ["costco","costco gas","costco wholesale"],
this names are considered as substandard names for this object type,
may be used by validators, likely to be used by iD validator

> "nomatch": ["amenity/pharmacy|Costco Pharmacy","shop/wholesale|Costco"],
lists entries with similat names but not actually duplicates (mostly internal use)

> "tags"
Tags that OSM element is expected to have (added by Vespucci/iD on creating it,
iD validator maybe is also using this info)

There is also matchTags that may list ways how that specific entry
is often mistagged - see for example
https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/blob/master/brands/amenity/payment_centre.json#L4

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 29 May 2019 at 22:00, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you link to an affected OSM object? It sounded like something caused by
name-suggestion-index, but I see no matches in
that would cause this.

The same for

It also appears to not be caused by recent changes from looking at
and

-------

BTW, I made a small tool that list what name-suggestion-index considers as matches -
examples from Manhattan:

name=Adidas - proposed change from `shop=clothes` to `shop=sports` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6187504686

name=Dollar Tree - proposed change from `shop=convenience` to `shop=variety_store` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5625761131

name=Timberland - proposed change from `shop=shoes` to `shop=clothes` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2709306607


name=FedEx Office - proposed change from `amenity=post_office` to `shop=copyshop` https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5978745700

Such list may be used both to look for some mistakes in a local area and for

mistakes in name-suggestion-index.


If somebody would be interested I can generate it for any location (I need just location,

how large area should be covered and how long list is requested)

29 May 2019, 01:17 by [hidden email]:
Thanks Alex and Ian,

So it seems there are plenty of standard Caltex service stations in Australia - any advice on how to stop entries labelled "Caltex" from auto resolving to a "Woolworths Petrol" location when "update these tags" is used?

Just changed the "brand" on the second entry in my original post from "Caltex" to "Caltex Woolworths"?

I could play about of course, but I don't want to break things!

Regards,
Charles



On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ian Sergeant <[hidden email]> wrote:
Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true.  Some Caltex operated sites still branded as Woolworths Caltex, and offered the Woolworths facilities.  You couldn't tell just by looking who owned what. 

Of course, now Woolworths has sold all its fuel outlets, and doesn't operate as a fuel retailer any longer.

I'd go by the name on the sign - as these are likely to change over the past few months as the Caltex owned stores all revert to form.

Ian.

On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 14:51, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:55 PM Charles Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are "Caltex" and "Caltex Woolworths" identical in some parts of Australia?

"What is the difference between [the 535] Woolworths Caltex and [the 680] Caltex locations? 
Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths owned fuel location, that sells Caltex fuel. The shop at a Woolworths Caltex is a Woolworths store.  
The shop at a Caltex location can be a Star Mart, Star Shop or The Foodary."

The map on their website makes a distinction between the two when you click on it https://www.caltex.com.au/find-a-caltex 
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Re: Caltex on name-suggestion-index

Graeme Fitzpatrick
Thanks everyone!

Mateusz, the Oz only option would be very useful, so thanks for putting that suggestion through.

Thanks

Graeme

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