Caribbean Netherlands

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Caribbean Netherlands

Frederik Ramm
Hi,

in the "split up Netherlands on Geofabrik download server" thread the
topic of the "ABC" and "SSS" islands was brought up.

I'll have to think about that. Things are a bit disorganised on the
download server when it comes to overseas territories. For example, the
Canary Islands have their own entry under "Africa" because that's where
they belong geographically, even though politically they are of course a
part of Spain. Once I split up Spain I'll probably have to add them
under Spain with the other subdivisions. Guadeloupe, which is
geographically in Central America, already has its own entry under
"France" (which can be confusing since the france.osm.pbf does *not*
contain Guadeloupe - just as the netherlands.osm.pbf is also confined to
the European part of the country).

The groupings "ABC" and "SSS" seem to be rather informal; other options
would be to group everything in one and call it... well... "Nederlandse
Antillen" is not an official term any more, is it? And "Caribisch
Nederland" is just three of the six islands? One could also have
separate files for each but they would be *really* small. Is the ABC/SSS
grouping the obvious choice?

I somewhat dislike the splitting of Saint Martin/Sint Maarten. I figure
that for all practical purposes, a map user would want to load a file
that contains both parts of the island, and it would be cumbersome to
have to pick the two halves out from underneath the Netherlands and
France (especially as there will be some overlap so combining the two
files can be difficult).

I'm open to suggestions on this. I would guess the Dutch and the French
are rather relaxed about the Saint Martin/Sint Maarten split but who
knows, maybe it's a hot political issue ;)

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [hidden email]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: Caribbean Netherlands

Maarten Deen
On 2018-11-08 01:48, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> The groupings "ABC" and "SSS" seem to be rather informal; other options
> would be to group everything in one and call it... well... "Nederlandse
> Antillen" is not an official term any more, is it?

Not anymore, not since 2010. It used to be one country within the
kingdom, now the 6 islands have their own status (some are
municipalities, some are countries).

> And "Caribisch Nederland" is just three of the six islands?

Yes, these are the three islands that are municipalities and therefore
part of the country the Netherlands. But they are geographically not one
entity.

> One could also have
> separate files for each but they would be *really* small. Is the
> ABC/SSS
> grouping the obvious choice?

I would say yes.

> I somewhat dislike the splitting of Saint Martin/Sint Maarten. I figure
> that for all practical purposes, a map user would want to load a file
> that contains both parts of the island, and it would be cumbersome to
> have to pick the two halves out from underneath the Netherlands and
> France (especially as there will be some overlap so combining the two
> files can be difficult).

I hope that everyone can see that your downloads and splits are based on
a convenience level rather than on a political level. I at least would
be deaf to political views on this point.

Concerning: Sint-Maarten/Saint-Martin: I would include both in any
download. The dataset is so small and it is logical.

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: Caribbean Netherlands

Pander OpenTaal

Frederik, thanks for the changes so far. Good to wait with parts of Belgium. Also good to stay clear of political issues and only use geographic considerations. For me, fine not to split up Saint Martin/Sint Maarten.

As for these six Dutch islands in South America, good question on how to call these in a geographic way. The name Caribbean Netherlands officially only refers to only three of the six islands, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Netherlands

Politically, historically and geographically, these islands can be grouped in many different ways with different names, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Caribbean#Grouping_of_islands Which doesn't make it easier. Calling it Dutch Caribbean is the least best name of the three options, I think.

Even though the name Netherlands Antilles indeed as a political entity no longer exists, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles Advantage of this name, is that it doesn't favor certain islands because of the current political construct (in which only a few are officially in Caribbean Netherlands).

I think that is the best name to use, as it is also closer to what is used in the Dutch language. Nobody talks about the Caraïbische Nederlanden.


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Re: Caribbean Netherlands

Marc Gemis
I like this video that explains the differences:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc

m.
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:39 AM Pander OpenTaal <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Frederik, thanks for the changes so far. Good to wait with parts of Belgium. Also good to stay clear of political issues and only use geographic considerations. For me, fine not to split up Saint Martin/Sint Maarten.
>
> As for these six Dutch islands in South America, good question on how to call these in a geographic way. The name Caribbean Netherlands officially only refers to only three of the six islands, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Netherlands
>
> Politically, historically and geographically, these islands can be grouped in many different ways with different names, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Caribbean#Grouping_of_islands Which doesn't make it easier. Calling it Dutch Caribbean is the least best name of the three options, I think.
>
> Even though the name Netherlands Antilles indeed as a political entity no longer exists, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles Advantage of this name, is that it doesn't favor certain islands because of the current political construct (in which only a few are officially in Caribbean Netherlands).
>
> I think that is the best name to use, as it is also closer to what is used in the Dutch language. Nobody talks about the Caraïbische Nederlanden.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-nl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl

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