Combined waste/recycling bins

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
22 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Combined waste/recycling bins

Paul Allen
A village a few miles from me (but in a different county) recently got one of
these combined litter/recycling bins:

How to tag?  Each of the two sections is around the size of a large
amenity=waste_basket.  The recycling half is a little smaller than the
amenity=recycling + recycling_type=container images in the wiki, and they
are a little smaller than the recycling containers I see around here.

In any case, if I put both of those tags on a node only one of them would
be rendered. If I use two nodes that are almost touching, only one of
them would be rendered.

These combined disposal things appear to be catching on, so I'd
expect to see them increasingly replacing existing
amenity=waste_basket.  It seems to me we probably need a dedicated
tag that everyone agrees on (no chance of that happening) and then
convincing the renderer folks to render it (the odds of that happening
can only be expressed as multiples of the square root of -1).

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

Joseph Eisenberg
Re: “convincing the renderer folks to render it“
Not as hard as you think. The folks at OpenStreetMap Carto have just revamped the mapping of recycling and waste bins.
If you can get > 1000 uses of a new tag and can think of a good icon, it could get rendered. 
-Joseph

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 11:32 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
A village a few miles from me (but in a different county) recently got one of
these combined litter/recycling bins:

How to tag?  Each of the two sections is around the size of a large
amenity=waste_basket.  The recycling half is a little smaller than the
amenity=recycling + recycling_type=container images in the wiki, and they
are a little smaller than the recycling containers I see around here.

In any case, if I put both of those tags on a node only one of them would
be rendered. If I use two nodes that are almost touching, only one of
them would be rendered.

These combined disposal things appear to be catching on, so I'd
expect to see them increasingly replacing existing
amenity=waste_basket.  It seems to me we probably need a dedicated
tag that everyone agrees on (no chance of that happening) and then
convincing the renderer folks to render it (the odds of that happening
can only be expressed as multiples of the square root of -1).

--
Paul

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

marc marc
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
Le 09. 10. 18 à 16:30, Paul Allen a écrit :
> How to tag?

amenity=recycling
recycling:cans=yes
recycling:paper=yes
recycling:PET=yes or recycling:plastic_bottles=yes
recycling:waste=yes


> only one of them would be rendered

feel free to find/create/publish a icon that show the different types
accepted by a container.
it seems complicated to me, however, to consider an icon for each
combination, it will probably be necessary at first to limit oneself to
this combination if it is the new "norm" for you... and hope that the
rendering team accepts this idea
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

Paul Allen
On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 5:09 PM marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:
Le 09. 10. 18 à 16:30, Paul Allen a écrit :
> How to tag?

amenity=recycling
recycling:cans=yes
recycling:paper=yes

So far, so good.

recycling:PET=yes or recycling:plastic_bottles=yes

It's neither of those.  The plastic type isn't specified and it's not just for bottles.  It may well
be the case that everything deposited is a PET bottle, but it need not be.

recycling:waste=yes

Umm, waste doesn't get recycled.  That's why it's waste.  One half of it is a mixed-recycling
container and the other half is a container for non-recyclable rubbish.
 
> only one of them would be rendered

feel free to find/create/publish a icon that show the different types
accepted by a container.

I think that's overkill.  It would be difficult (probably impossible) to produce a legible icon for each
combination.  The best that might be possible is something incorporating the current waste
receptacle icon with a recycling icon.  And I have my doubts about that (it's certainly beyond my
artistic talents).

I just thought of something else.  People in that same village keep saying that there aren't enough
doggy poo receptacles.  So their county council (but not mine, that I've seen) provides containers for
specifically that kind of waste and no other.

If you're a tourist with a dog, you probably want to know about all three kinds of receptacle.

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

bkil
You can tag the doggy bins like so:

amenity=waste_basket
waste=dog_excrement
vending=excrement_bags

I've also seen waste_basket:excrement_bags=yes and fee=no, but I don't
see much value in these at this point in time.
On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 6:30 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 5:09 PM marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Le 09. 10. 18 à 16:30, Paul Allen a écrit :
>> > How to tag?
>>
>> amenity=recycling
>> recycling:cans=yes
>> recycling:paper=yes
>
>
> So far, so good.
>
>> recycling:PET=yes or recycling:plastic_bottles=yes
>
>
> It's neither of those.  The plastic type isn't specified and it's not just for bottles.  It may well
> be the case that everything deposited is a PET bottle, but it need not be.
>
>> recycling:waste=yes
>
>
> Umm, waste doesn't get recycled.  That's why it's waste.  One half of it is a mixed-recycling
> container and the other half is a container for non-recyclable rubbish.
>
>>
>> > only one of them would be rendered
>>
>> feel free to find/create/publish a icon that show the different types
>> accepted by a container.
>
>
> I think that's overkill.  It would be difficult (probably impossible) to produce a legible icon for each
> combination.  The best that might be possible is something incorporating the current waste
> receptacle icon with a recycling icon.  And I have my doubts about that (it's certainly beyond my
> artistic talents).
>
> I just thought of something else.  People in that same village keep saying that there aren't enough
> doggy poo receptacles.  So their county council (but not mine, that I've seen) provides containers for
> specifically that kind of waste and no other.
>
> If you're a tourist with a dog, you probably want to know about all three kinds of receptacle.
>
> --
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 9. Oct 2018, at 21:19, bkil <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> amenity=waste_basket
> waste=dog_excrement
> vending=excrement_bags
>
> I've also seen waste_basket:excrement_bags=yes and fee=no, but I don't
> see much value in these at this point in time.



while vending=* with fee=no is some kind of open contradiction, without the fee tag the contradiction is implicitly still there in many instances.

Shouldn’t that better be „dispensing“ rather than vending?
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

bkil
Not sure, I'm only browsing taginfo and found this to be the most
common tagging.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 12:50 AM Martin Koppenhoefer
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 9. Oct 2018, at 21:19, bkil <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > amenity=waste_basket
> > waste=dog_excrement
> > vending=excrement_bags
> >
> > I've also seen waste_basket:excrement_bags=yes and fee=no, but I don't
> > see much value in these at this point in time.
>
>
>
> while vending=* with fee=no is some kind of open contradiction, without the fee tag the contradiction is implicitly still there in many instances.
>
> Shouldn’t that better be „dispensing“ rather than vending?
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

SelfishSeahorse
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 at 16:32, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A village a few miles from me (but in a different county) recently got one of
> these combined litter/recycling bins:
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2241627292737699&id=1632021387031629&__tn__=C-R
>
> How to tag?

What about

amenity=waste_basket
recycling:cans=yes
recycling:paper=yes
recycling:plastic=yes

?

Regards
Markus

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

Paul Allen
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 6:30 PM SelfishSeahorse <[hidden email]> wrote:
What about

amenity=waste_basket
recycling:cans=yes
recycling:paper=yes
recycling:plastic=yes

If I do it as one node or a single area, that is about the best that can be done with existing
tags.  The problem is it will get the icon for a waste bin, with no indication it's also for
recycling.  Fine if you use the query tool, but not many people would do that.

If I tag it as adjacent nodes or areas it's unlikely (with current tile-based rendering) to display
both icons, and it's not possible to guarantee which one will show up.

Many of the large recycling receptacles in my town don't have a waste bin nearby.  Most waste
bins don't have a small recycling receptacle nearby.  I wouldn't assume that one implies the
other unless the icon made clear that it did.  So the current solutions are not capable of
adequately representing what appears to be a growing trend of combined waste/recycling
points.

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Dispensing vs vending (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

SelfishSeahorse
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 00:50, Martin Koppenhoefer
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > On 9. Oct 2018, at 21:19, bkil <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > amenity=waste_basket
> > waste=dog_excrement
> > vending=excrement_bags
> >
> > I've also seen waste_basket:excrement_bags=yes and fee=no, but I don't
> > see much value in these at this point in time.
>
> while vending=* with fee=no is some kind of open contradiction, without the fee tag the contradiction is implicitly still there in many instances.
>
> Shouldn’t that better be „dispensing“ rather than vending?

I've used dispensing:excrement_bags=yes several times, in combination
with either amenity=dispenser (example [1]) or amenity=waste_basket
(example [2]).

[1]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cézy-FR-89-toutounet-01.jpg
[2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dogs_excrements_A.jpg

Now that i checked Taginfo, these tags have all gone away, obviously
been 'corrected' -- very annoying ...

https://images.says.com/uploads/story_source/source_image/405030/1ae1.png

Markus

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

SelfishSeahorse
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 19:46, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If I do it as one node or a single area, that is about the best that can be done with existing
> tags.  The problem is it will get the icon for a waste bin, with no indication it's also for
> recycling.  Fine if you use the query tool, but not many people would do that.

That's true.

> If I tag it as adjacent nodes or areas it's unlikely (with current tile-based rendering) to display
> both icons, and it's not possible to guarantee which one will show up.

It would be nice if openstreetmap-carto would offer more zoom (at
least zoom level 20). There are also bus stops hidden by shelters or
shops hidden by other shops ...

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

Paul Allen
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 7:12 PM SelfishSeahorse <[hidden email]> wrote:

It would be nice if openstreetmap-carto would offer more zoom (at
least zoom level 20). There are also bus stops hidden by shelters or
shops hidden by other shops ...

Not practicable with the current tile-based rendering (unless you'd like to buy some Cray
supercomputers for OSM to use as servers).  It is supposed to be possible with vector
rendering, and perhaps one day that will be deployed by OSM carto.  And then all the people
who complain that their micro-mapped stuff isn't rendered will be able to complain that their
nano-mapped stuff isn't rendered. :)

--
Paul

Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combined waste/recycling bins

bkil
In reply to this post by SelfishSeahorse
Just a reminder, that a bus stop which has a waste_basket, shelter and
bench should be mapped as a single node with the respective tags added
(bin, shelter, bench=*):
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dbus_stop
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 8:12 PM SelfishSeahorse
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 19:46, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > If I do it as one node or a single area, that is about the best that can be done with existing
> > tags.  The problem is it will get the icon for a waste bin, with no indication it's also for
> > recycling.  Fine if you use the query tool, but not many people would do that.
>
> That's true.
>
> > If I tag it as adjacent nodes or areas it's unlikely (with current tile-based rendering) to display
> > both icons, and it's not possible to guarantee which one will show up.
>
> It would be nice if openstreetmap-carto would offer more zoom (at
> least zoom level 20). There are also bus stops hidden by shelters or
> shops hidden by other shops ...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dispensing vs vending (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

bkil
In reply to this post by SelfishSeahorse
You should create a wiki page for your extension proposal and perhaps
submit an RFC.

It is also displayed in the red banner here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddog_bin

Some more references:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:vending%3Dexcrement_bags
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Animals
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Dog_off-leash_area
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:dog
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_basket

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 7:55 PM SelfishSeahorse
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 00:50, Martin Koppenhoefer
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > On 9. Oct 2018, at 21:19, bkil <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > amenity=waste_basket
> > > waste=dog_excrement
> > > vending=excrement_bags
> > >
> > > I've also seen waste_basket:excrement_bags=yes and fee=no, but I don't
> > > see much value in these at this point in time.
> >
> > while vending=* with fee=no is some kind of open contradiction, without the fee tag the contradiction is implicitly still there in many instances.
> >
> > Shouldn’t that better be „dispensing“ rather than vending?
>
> I've used dispensing:excrement_bags=yes several times, in combination
> with either amenity=dispenser (example [1]) or amenity=waste_basket
> (example [2]).
>
> [1]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cézy-FR-89-toutounet-01.jpg
> [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dogs_excrements_A.jpg
>
> Now that i checked Taginfo, these tags have all gone away, obviously
> been 'corrected' -- very annoying ...
>
> https://images.says.com/uploads/story_source/source_image/405030/1ae1.png
>
> Markus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dispensing vs vending (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

marc marc
In reply to this post by SelfishSeahorse
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 00:50, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>> while vending=* with fee=no is some kind of open contradiction
>> Shouldn’t that better be „dispensing“ rather than vending?

this info is already in the fee tag no ?
yes the word vending is not perfect when it's for free (in fact
it's paid for by taxes)
So did you want to duplicate the fee in the vending<>dispensing value or
move all 100k+ vending* to dispensing* ?
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dispensing vs vending (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

dieterdreist
Am Do., 11. Okt. 2018 um 11:03 Uhr schrieb marc marc <[hidden email]>:
this info is already in the fee tag no ?


it is a contradiction.

 
yes the word vending is not perfect when it's for free (in fact
it's paid for by taxes)


it is not only "not perfect", it is completely wrong. Either you buy something or you get it for free, both is not possible at the same time.


 
So did you want to duplicate the fee in the vending<>dispensing value or
move all 100k+ vending* to dispensing* ?


no, I would remove only those from "vending", which are not about vending. E.g. parcels and excrement bags. Those that are about dispensers could get a dispensing tag, those that offer completely different services like parcel drop off should get proper tags that describe the thing.
Shall we wait until it is millions?
What we have currently is tagging for the renderer, laziness to develop appropriate tags, or whatever. It is not only ugly, it is misleading and self-contradictory.

Cheers,
Martin

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dispensing vs vending (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

SelfishSeahorse
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 11:28, Martin Koppenhoefer
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> no, I would remove only those from "vending", which are not about vending. E.g. parcels and excrement bags. Those that are about dispensers could get a dispensing tag, those that offer completely different services like parcel drop off should get proper tags that describe the thing.

What about

amenity=parcel_station
parcel_station:send=yes/no
parcel_station:receive=yes/no

?

Regards
Markus

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

ref of waste_basket on public_transport=platform (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

Torbjörn K
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
Hi all,

I have another scenario of "combined" waste baskets.

How should I tag the ref of a waste_basket integrated into the information
pillar of a public_transport=platform?

For separate waste baskets, I'm following the scheme of

amenity=waste_basket
waste=trash
ref=B101

Where the "B101" is printed on the waste basket in huge letters.

Similar, there are waste baskets integrated into the pillar of a bus stop's
platform also having a "B42" well recognizable.

Up to now, I've created separate nodes very close to the platform node for the
waste_basket.
After re-reading the wiki on public_transport=platform and re-opening the
dialog of JOSM's preset, I realized that I should tag it with the platform via

waste_basket=yes

I want to correct my previous error regarding the separate nodes. But how can
I also tag the waste_basket's ref. Should I do

waste_basket:ref=B42

or

ref:waste_basket=B42

I hope, I haven't kidnapped this thread.

Kind regards
torbjoernk


On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 4:30:58 PM CEST Paul Allen wrote:

> A village a few miles from me (but in a different county) recently got one
> of
> these combined litter/recycling bins:
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2241627292737699&id=163202
> 1387031629&__tn__=C-R
>
> How to tag?  Each of the two sections is around the size of a large
> amenity=waste_basket.  The recycling half is a little smaller than the
> amenity=recycling + recycling_type=container images in the wiki, and they
> are a little smaller than the recycling containers I see around here.
>
> In any case, if I put both of those tags on a node only one of them would
> be rendered. If I use two nodes that are almost touching, only one of
> them would be rendered.
>
> These combined disposal things appear to be catching on, so I'd
> expect to see them increasingly replacing existing
> amenity=waste_basket.  It seems to me we probably need a dedicated
> tag that everyone agrees on (no chance of that happening) and then
> convincing the renderer folks to render it (the odds of that happening
> can only be expressed as multiples of the square root of -1).

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

signature.asc (499 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: ref of waste_basket on public_transport=platform (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

marc marc
Le 12. 10. 18 à 19:49, Torbjörn K a écrit :
> After re-reading the wiki on public_transport=platform
> waste_basket=yes

on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:public_transport%3Dplatform
it's bin=yes (but that doesn't solve the question about the ref)

> waste_basket:ref=B42

Imho this one is better because ref:yz is used as the ref of the stop
for the network xyz.
Ihope that no network is named waste_basket but it wouldn't be a good
idea to mix two different types of information in the same syntax

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dispensing vs vending (Was: Combined waste/recycling bins)

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by SelfishSeahorse


sent from a phone

> On 12. Oct 2018, at 13:51, SelfishSeahorse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> amenity=parcel_station
> parcel_station:send=yes/no
> parcel_station:receive=yes/no


+1, would be fine for me.
or amenity=parcel_machine?

I believe packstation is a trademark

Cheers, Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
12