Creating shop=caravan

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Creating shop=caravan

Graeme Fitzpatrick
Recently asked what to tag some things as, including a business selling caravans.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 02:37, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, 2018-12-28 at 16:36 +1000, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

& yards dedicated to caravan sales? I can find shop=car  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car, which says it's a place that sells cars, buses or trucks. Perhaps shop=caravan?


Shop=caravan has over 100 uses, so why not?

With fear & trepidation :-) I am about to try & create a page shop=caravan, then put it up for further discussion.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm still unclear on the details (& from previous discussions, a lot of other people are as well :-()

The page would be fairly similar to shop=car https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dcar, so that sounds like a good basis to start with.

If I just open that page, "Edit source", change value=car to value=caravan, then save that, I'm fairly sure that will create a shop=caravan page ready for further editing, but will the original shop=car page still exist?

Is there a better way to create a new page?

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

AlaskaDave
Haha, Graeme. I am in the same boat when it comes to adding anything to the Wiki. Welcome to the arcane world of Wiki editing. I don't have an answer to your question. I only want to sympathize.

Dave



On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:35 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Recently asked what to tag some things as, including a business selling caravans.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 02:37, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, 2018-12-28 at 16:36 +1000, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

& yards dedicated to caravan sales? I can find shop=car  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car, which says it's a place that sells cars, buses or trucks. Perhaps shop=caravan?


Shop=caravan has over 100 uses, so why not?

With fear & trepidation :-) I am about to try & create a page shop=caravan, then put it up for further discussion.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm still unclear on the details (& from previous discussions, a lot of other people are as well :-()

The page would be fairly similar to shop=car https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dcar, so that sounds like a good basis to start with.

If I just open that page, "Edit source", change value=car to value=caravan, then save that, I'm fairly sure that will create a shop=caravan page ready for further editing, but will the original shop=car page still exist?

Is there a better way to create a new page?

Thanks

Graeme
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Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Warin
This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...

1) get the "car" template
On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
 Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.

2) edit the template
Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
When your finished here ...

 
3) create the new page
Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.

On 07/01/19 11:23, Dave Swarthout wrote:
Haha, Graeme. I am in the same boat when it comes to adding anything to the Wiki. Welcome to the arcane world of Wiki editing. I don't have an answer to your question. I only want to sympathize.

Dave



On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:35 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Recently asked what to tag some things as, including a business selling caravans.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 02:37, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, 2018-12-28 at 16:36 +1000, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

& yards dedicated to caravan sales? I can find shop=car  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car, which says it's a place that sells cars, buses or trucks. Perhaps shop=caravan?


Shop=caravan has over 100 uses, so why not?

With fear & trepidation :-) I am about to try & create a page shop=caravan, then put it up for further discussion.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm still unclear on the details (& from previous discussions, a lot of other people are as well :-()

The page would be fairly similar to shop=car https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dcar, so that sounds like a good basis to start with.

If I just open that page, "Edit source", change value=car to value=caravan, then save that, I'm fairly sure that will create a shop=caravan page ready for further editing, but will the original shop=car page still exist?

Is there a better way to create a new page?




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Re: Creating shop=caravan

AlaskaDave
@Warin
Can you illustrate or explain the differences between editing a  "template" and editing a simple page? When you save your edited version of the new page does it become a template?

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:12 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...

1) get the "car" template
On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
 Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.

2) edit the template
Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
When your finished here ...

 
3) create the new page
Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.

On 07/01/19 11:23, Dave Swarthout wrote:
Haha, Graeme. I am in the same boat when it comes to adding anything to the Wiki. Welcome to the arcane world of Wiki editing. I don't have an answer to your question. I only want to sympathize.

Dave



On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:35 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Recently asked what to tag some things as, including a business selling caravans.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 02:37, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, 2018-12-28 at 16:36 +1000, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

& yards dedicated to caravan sales? I can find shop=car  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car, which says it's a place that sells cars, buses or trucks. Perhaps shop=caravan?


Shop=caravan has over 100 uses, so why not?

With fear & trepidation :-) I am about to try & create a page shop=caravan, then put it up for further discussion.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm still unclear on the details (& from previous discussions, a lot of other people are as well :-()

The page would be fairly similar to shop=car https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dcar, so that sounds like a good basis to start with.

If I just open that page, "Edit source", change value=car to value=caravan, then save that, I'm fairly sure that will create a shop=caravan page ready for further editing, but will the original shop=car page still exist?

Is there a better way to create a new page?



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Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Warin

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 11:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...

1) get the "car" template
On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
 Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.

2) edit the template
Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
When your finished here ...

 
3) create the new page
Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.

Warin, that is fantastic! :-)

Now you just have to write a page titled Creating pages, so everybody can find it!

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Warin
In reply to this post by AlaskaDave
Errg .. so much trouble with words  :-(

In the example the "car" page is used as a 'prototype', a 'sample', a 'template' for the new page of "caravan".

You could chose another page to act as your 'prototype'.
I used "basketball" as a 'prototype' for "netball" as they are similar sports for example.

The 'editing' is only done for the new page, using your own editor as you are probably more familiar with it.

Once saved the new page is just another page.

Sorry if that gets confused with other "templates"..

That help Dave?

On 07/01/19 17:05, Dave Swarthout wrote:
@Warin
Can you illustrate or explain the differences between editing a  "template" and editing a simple page? When you save your edited version of the new page does it become a template?

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:12 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...

1) get the "car" template
On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
 Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.

2) edit the template
Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
When your finished here ...

 
3) create the new page
Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.

On 07/01/19 11:23, Dave Swarthout wrote:
Haha, Graeme. I am in the same boat when it comes to adding anything to the Wiki. Welcome to the arcane world of Wiki editing. I don't have an answer to your question. I only want to sympathize.

Dave



On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:35 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Recently asked what to tag some things as, including a business selling caravans.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 02:37, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, 2018-12-28 at 16:36 +1000, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

& yards dedicated to caravan sales? I can find shop=car  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car, which says it's a place that sells cars, buses or trucks. Perhaps shop=caravan?


Shop=caravan has over 100 uses, so why not?

With fear & trepidation :-) I am about to try & create a page shop=caravan, then put it up for further discussion.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm still unclear on the details (& from previous discussions, a lot of other people are as well :-()

The page would be fairly similar to shop=car https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dcar, so that sounds like a good basis to start with.

If I just open that page, "Edit source", change value=car to value=caravan, then save that, I'm fairly sure that will create a shop=caravan page ready for further editing, but will the original shop=car page still exist?

Is there a better way to create a new page?



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Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com


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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick

Known problems

Languages - how do I edit them all out?

service=parts has moved one box too far across

Have to change the photo & (suggested) icon

Wikidata reference

Any & all other comments welcome!

Seeing that apparently it's already been used 130 odd times, can I take that we don't actually have to RFC & vote on it?

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 17:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 11:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...

1) get the "car" template
On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
 Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.

2) edit the template
Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
When your finished here ...

 
3) create the new page
Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.

Warin, that is fantastic! :-)

Now you just have to write a page titled Creating pages, so everybody can find it!

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Marc Gemis
Graeme,

You might have to change the picture and the rendering icon in the
right "summary" bar.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:22 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> & here we go: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shop%3Dcaravan :-)
>
> Known problems
>
> Languages - how do I edit them all out?
>
> service=parts has moved one box too far across
>
> Have to change the photo & (suggested) icon
>
> Wikidata reference
>
> Any & all other comments welcome!
>
> Seeing that apparently it's already been used 130 odd times, can I take that we don't actually have to RFC & vote on it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 17:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 11:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...
>>>
>>> 1) get the "car" template
>>> On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
>>>  Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.
>>>
>>> 2) edit the template
>>> Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
>>> When your finished here ...
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) create the new page
>>> Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
>>> It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
>>> Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.
>>
>>
>> Warin, that is fantastic! :-)
>>
>> Now you just have to write a page titled Creating pages, so everybody can find it!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

AlaskaDave
Warin -
I read through the documentation for Templates and the way it's used in Mediawiki applications like our Wiki is to define a piece of text, with or without photos, etc., as a reusable fragment that can be inserted in any page and if the original, the "template", is edited the changes propagate to all instances of the template in as many places as it appears. It's sort of like what used to be known as "boilerplate" in word-processors except its content is dynamic.

Thanks for your clarification though. It motivated me to learn a bit more about the Wiki s/w I constantly complain about. LOL

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 3:32 PM Marc Gemis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Graeme,

You might have to change the picture and the rendering icon in the
right "summary" bar.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:22 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> & here we go: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shop%3Dcaravan :-)
>
> Known problems
>
> Languages - how do I edit them all out?
>
> service=parts has moved one box too far across
>
> Have to change the photo & (suggested) icon
>
> Wikidata reference
>
> Any & all other comments welcome!
>
> Seeing that apparently it's already been used 130 odd times, can I take that we don't actually have to RFC & vote on it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 17:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 11:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...
>>>
>>> 1) get the "car" template
>>> On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
>>>  Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.
>>>
>>> 2) edit the template
>>> Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
>>> When your finished here ...
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) create the new page
>>> Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
>>> It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
>>> Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.
>>
>>
>> Warin, that is fantastic! :-)
>>
>> Now you just have to write a page titled Creating pages, so everybody can find it!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Georg Feddern-2
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
Am 07.01.2019 um 08:20 schrieb Graeme Fitzpatrick:
> & here we go: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shop%3Dcaravan :-)
>
> Seeing that apparently it's already been used 130 odd times, can I
> take that we don't actually have to RFC & vote on it?

May be not necessary to RFC & vote - but I think to discuss (may be I
missed that part already?)

You intend to summarize up caravans, motorhomes and tents.
But I mostly know of 'specialised' shops:
- motorhomes only
- caravans only
- tents only

(OK, I also know some 'supermarkets' with combinations.)

At least I want to find the right dealer for me (e.g. motorhome), so it
would be necessary to distuingish them.
Because there are mixed shops and all fall under caravaning, I suppose a
subkey would be necessary - but yet I did not found a useful one or know
a possible new one.

Any ideas?

Regards
Georg

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Warin
In reply to this post by AlaskaDave
Sorry for using a word that triggers some usage I had not intended. Keep asking as it does help explain things.

On 07/01/19 21:41, Dave Swarthout wrote:
Warin -
I read through the documentation for Templates and the way it's used in Mediawiki applications like our Wiki is to define a piece of text, with or without photos, etc., as a reusable fragment that can be inserted in any page and if the original, the "template", is edited the changes propagate to all instances of the template in as many places as it appears. It's sort of like what used to be known as "boilerplate" in word-processors except its content is dynamic.

Thanks for your clarification though. It motivated me to learn a bit more about the Wiki s/w I constantly complain about. LOL

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 3:32 PM Marc Gemis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Graeme,

You might have to change the picture and the rendering icon in the
right "summary" bar.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:22 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> & here we go: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shop%3Dcaravan :-)
>
> Known problems
>
> Languages - how do I edit them all out?
>
> service=parts has moved one box too far across
>
> Have to change the photo & (suggested) icon
>
> Wikidata reference
>
> Any & all other comments welcome!
>
> Seeing that apparently it's already been used 130 odd times, can I take that we don't actually have to RFC & vote on it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 17:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 11:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is what I do .. it works and leaves the original page alone...
>>>
>>> 1) get the "car" template
>>> On the page you want to copy Click on "edit Source" - Copy all of it and paste it over to your your word processor as a new document.
>>>  Exit out out this "Edit Source" without saving "cancel" I think is it - so it stays the same.
>>>
>>> 2) edit the template
>>> Now in your word processor find and replace all the "car" and replace with "caravan". Perform similar edits here - much easier than the editor you may not be familiar with on the wiki.
>>> When your finished here ...
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) create the new page
>>> Type the title of the page you want to create in the wiki search box ...
>>> It will come up with a suggestion to create the page you want .. click on that and you have started to create the new page :)
>>> Copy all of the stuff you have on your word processor page over to the new page (copy and paste) .. and save it ... Done.
>>
>>
>> Warin, that is fantastic! :-)
>>
>> Now you just have to write a page titled Creating pages, so everybody can find it!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Warin
In reply to this post by Georg Feddern-2
On 07/01/19 22:19, Georg Feddern wrote:

> Am 07.01.2019 um 08:20 schrieb Graeme Fitzpatrick:
>> & here we go: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shop%3Dcaravan :-)
>>
>> Seeing that apparently it's already been used 130 odd times, can I
>> take that we don't actually have to RFC & vote on it?
>
> May be not necessary to RFC & vote - but I think to discuss (may be I
> missed that part already?)
>
> You intend to summarize up caravans, motorhomes and tents.
> But I mostly know of 'specialised' shops:
> - motorhomes only
> - caravans only
> - tents only
>
> (OK, I also know some 'supermarkets' with combinations.)
>
> At least I want to find the right dealer for me (e.g. motorhome), so
> it would be necessary to distuingish them.
> Because there are mixed shops and all fall under caravaning, I suppose
> a subkey would be necessary - but yet I did not found a useful one or
> know a possible new one.
>
> Any ideas?

Depends on the local use.
A caravan shop in one area of the world could be expected to only do
caravans. In another part of the world to do both caravans and motor
homes. In another part of the world tents etc.

"sells" would be a tag I would use to describe what a shop sells.

"service" is a tag used to describe "highway=service".
Should it be used with other things? Or is there some other word OSM can
use here?





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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 17:20, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

Most of the problems have been sorted by a little bit of playing, plus an extra couple of fields added. 

Languages - how do I edit them all out?

Still have to get rid of all the language options though & can't see any way of doing that? 

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 20:43, Dave Swarthout <[hidden email]> wrote:
I read through the documentation for Templates

Dave

I wouldn't worry or stress too much about the word "template"

As Warin suggested, I just went to shop=car, "Edit source", copied the entire page, pasted it as a new text document (I use Open Office but I'd think any "Word" program would work), made the necessary changes of changing car to caravan etc, searched shop=caravan in the OSM wiki with nothing found, created the new page, copy / pasted my document, preview, save & done! (Apart from going back in a dozen times to tweak things!)

Very straight forward & simple! :-)

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 21:21, Georg Feddern <[hidden email]> wrote:

May be not necessary to RFC & vote - but I think to discuss (may be I 
missed that part already?)

I recently asked how to tag a caravan dealer & someone suggested shop=caravan as it was already in use. I then created this page to give a reference for people to find.
  
You intend to summarize up caravans, motorhomes and tents.
But I mostly know of 'specialised' shops:
- motorhomes only
- caravans only
- tents only

(OK, I also know some 'supermarkets' with combinations.)

At least I want to find the right dealer for me (e.g. motorhome), so it 
would be necessary to distuingish them.
Because there are mixed shops and all fall under caravaning, I suppose a 
subkey would be necessary - but yet I did not found a useful one or know 
a possible new one.

Um? Yes, I put them all together because I thought they all "sort of" fit together, but I can see your point.

Possibly something like caravan:type=caravan / motorhome / Winnebago / camper trailer etc, but then you get to the problem of what is difference between a camper van, motorhome & Winnebago?



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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Warin


On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 07:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

"sells" would be a tag I would use to describe what a shop sells.

"service" is a tag used to describe "highway=service".
Should it be used with other things? Or is there some other word OSM can
use here?

Good question!

I just copied what was already shown under the =car page, but used the original version, rather than the
car:sales=yes/no/used
car:rental=yes/no
option, which is currently the subject of discussion! 

Maybe that would be a better way to go?

Thanks

Graeme


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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 21:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

As Warin suggested, I just went to shop=car, "Edit source", copied the entire page, pasted it as a new text document (I use Open Office but I'd think any "Word" program would work), made the necessary changes of changing car to caravan etc, searched shop=caravan in the OSM wiki with nothing found, created the new page, copy / pasted my document, preview, save & done! (Apart from going back in a dozen times to tweak things!)

That's the LONG way around. :)

Edit source on shop=car.  Copy the entire page into the paste buffer.  Create the new page.  Paste
the paste buffer into it.  No need for an intermediate Word document.  In fact, that way you don't risk
Word doing "clever" things behind your back like "fixing" apostrophes to be what it thinks you should
be using (it's sometimes wrong even in plain English, and with wiki markup it can be a disaster).

OK, the Word document gives you search and replace whereas with a browser you just have search
and have to do the rest manually. but that way you don't have to take extra care that your global
search/replace hasn't left you with a "caravane" where you should have had "care."
 
Very straight forward & simple! :-)

It can be even simpler.  For some values of "simple." :)

--
Paul


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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Graeme Fitzpatrick
Thanks Paul, I'll try that "next" time!

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 08:24, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

That's the LONG way around. :)

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Warin
I find using my own editor reduces the 'going back and forwards" on the new page.
And I am more comfortable using it and storing it while I think on it before creating the new page.
In general a couple of days between thought, creation and eventual creation is of benefit to my 'work'.



On 08/01/19 09:42, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
Thanks Paul, I'll try that "next" time!

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 08:24, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

That's the LONG way around. :)


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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Mark Wagner
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 07:54:00 +1000
Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Possibly something like caravan:type=caravan / motorhome / Winnebago /
> camper trailer etc, but then you get to the problem of what is
> difference between a camper van, motorhome & Winnebago?

In the (US) industry, the terminology for self-propelled RVs is "Class
A", "Class B", and "Class C":

Class A: An integrated unit with the driving area being part of the
living area, usually built on a custom or bus chassis.  I think this
corresponds to your "Winnebago".

Class B: Sometimes referred to as a "van conversion", this, as the
name implies, usually uses a full-sized van as the starting point for
construction. I think this corresponds to your "camper van".

Class C: Built on a truck chassis with little or no connection between
the driving and living areas.  I think this corresponds to your
"motorhome".

On the non-self-propelled side of things, the split is (roughly) "Fifth
wheel", "travel trailer", and "popup".

Fifth wheel: Connects to the tow vehicle via a fifth-wheel hitch.
Usually the largest and heaviest trailers.

Travel trailer: A hard-sided trailer that connects to the tow vehicle by
a ball hitch.

Popup: A collapsible, usually soft-sided trailer that connects to the
tow vehicle by a ball hitch.

The self-propelled/non-self-propelled split is important enough to be
worth tagging.  It's also, at least in the US, very common for a dealer
to sell one or the other, but not both.  On the other hand, it's very
common for a dealer to sell both Class A and Class C units, or both
fifth-wheels and travel trailers.

--
Mark

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 at 16:17, Mark Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 07:54:00 +1000
Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Possibly something like caravan:type=caravan / motorhome / Winnebago /
> camper trailer etc, but then you get to the problem of what is
> difference between a camper van, motorhome & Winnebago?

In the (US) industry, the terminology for self-propelled RVs is "Class
A", "Class B", and "Class C":

Here in Australia, we don't (TTBMK) have those classes, & motorhome & camper van are pretty interchangeable


Motorhome - A motor vehicle built on a truck or bus chassis and designed to serve as self-contained living quarters for recreational travel. There is normally a divide between the cab and the living quarters behind, which contain sleeping space, ablution and kitchen facilities.

Campervan - a van equipped as a self-contained travelling home, they are normally smaller than a motorhome. There is generally no divide between the cab and the living quarters. It has basic facilities for cooking, washing, and sleeping.

Winnebago - Although a brand name for an American manufacturer of RV's,because the brand is so popular it has become interchangeable with RV and therefore is often used to refer to any recreational vehicle.  


On the non-self-propelled side of things, the split is (roughly) "Fifth
wheel", "travel trailer", and "popup".

 Caravan - a mobile home or trailer, fully equipped with household accessories and towed behind a vehicle. It is designed to be occupied as a house would and depending on its size contains sleeping quarters, ablution facilities and cooking facilities.

Camper Trailer - This is a trailer equipped for occupancy that is towed behind a wheeled vehicle. Much smaller than a caravan, it normally consists of a tent that folds out of the trailer, where other essential living items are also packed, and facilities such as sinks and cookers are kept. A lot of its appeal lies in its compactness and light weight.

with further split down to fixed or pop-top caravans, hard- & soft-floor camper trailers & so on. Yes, there are also 5th wheelers, but that only refers to the way it's connected to the tow vehicle, not the "type" of van ie it's just a normal caravan

The self-propelled/non-self-propelled split is important enough to be
worth tagging. 

Yes, you (& Georg earlier) are probably right there.

motorised=yes / no?

propulsion=towed / motorised?

Possibly a separate page again for shop=motorhome? (I think that would be a good coverall term?)

It's also, at least in the US, very common for a dealer
to sell one or the other, but not both. 

But if we use a separate page, won't you have the same problem that you'll only be able to find one or the other?

As I mentioned earlier, if we had 

caravan:type=caravan / motorhome / camper_trailer

would you be able to search for the type you want? 

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Creating shop=caravan

lomastrolo
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
Il giorno mar, 08/01/2019 alle 07.54 +1000, Graeme Fitzpatrick ha
scritto:
>
> > Languages - how do I edit them all out?
> >
>
> Still have to get rid of all the language options though & can't see
> any way of doing that?
>


Language links come from the shop=* page, probably because the page
name is wrong :)
Please use the Move action under More and enter the name
"Tag:shop=caravan".

See here for page naming:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki_organisation#Pages_naming_convention


Lorenzo


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