Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

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Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Edward Bainton
Hi all

General Elections Online (hosted at parliament.uk) have got a failed page where the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".

I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead. 

Can anyone point me to the precise technical detail their webmaster will need? Is it the wiki page, Deploying your own Slippy Map?

Thanks,

Edward

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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Gareth L

Gareth

On 3 Dec 2019, at 09:47, Edward Bainton <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hi all

General Elections Online (hosted at parliament.uk) have got a failed page where the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".

I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead. 

Can anyone point me to the precise technical detail their webmaster will need? Is it the wiki page, Deploying your own Slippy Map?

Thanks,

Edward
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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

David Woolley
In reply to this post by Edward Bainton
On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> General Elections Online
> <https://electionresults.parliament.uk/#Cities%20of%20London%20and%20Westminster> (hosted
> at parliament.uk <http://parliament.uk>) have got a failed page where
> the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".
>
> I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.
>

The advantage to them of using Google is that Google provides the tile
servers.  OSM tile servers aren't funded to support a mass market use
like this, so the organisation will have to install and run their own
tile servers.


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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Edward Bainton
Interesting. Do they pay Google for the map and tileserver use (even if they don't realise that's what they're paying for)? 

Or rather, since they've clearly not updated whatever agreement they had with Google for a while, if the map were functioning would that mean they were paying Google?

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 14:46, David Woolley <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> General Elections Online
> <https://electionresults.parliament.uk/#Cities%20of%20London%20and%20Westminster> (hosted
> at parliament.uk <http://parliament.uk>) have got a failed page where
> the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".
>
> I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.
>

The advantage to them of using Google is that Google provides the tile
servers.  OSM tile servers aren't funded to support a mass market use
like this, so the organisation will have to install and run their own
tile servers.


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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Tom Hughes-3
The reason they're getting that error is almost certainly that they
aren't paying and they're either not passing an API key at all or
they're passing one that is for a different site.

Most likely the site was developed before API keys were required
and has never been updated, but if they add a key they will almost
certainly exceed the free allowance and have to pay which is likely
why they haven't done so.

Tom

On 03/12/2019 15:21, Edward Bainton wrote:

> Interesting. Do they pay Google for the map and tileserver use (even if
> they don't realise that's what they're paying for)?
>
> Or rather, since they've clearly not updated whatever agreement they had
> with Google for a while, /if/ the map were functioning would that mean
> they were paying Google?
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 14:46, David Woolley <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:
>      >
>      > General Elections Online
>      >
>     <https://electionresults.parliament.uk/#Cities%20of%20London%20and%20Westminster> (hosted
>
>      > at parliament.uk <http://parliament.uk> <http://parliament.uk>)
>     have got a failed page where
>      > the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".
>      >
>      > I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.
>      >
>
>     The advantage to them of using Google is that Google provides the tile
>     servers.  OSM tile servers aren't funded to support a mass market use
>     like this, so the organisation will have to install and run their own
>     tile servers.
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Talk-GB mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
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>


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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Mark Goodge
In reply to this post by Edward Bainton


On 03/12/2019 15:21, Edward Bainton wrote:
> Interesting. Do they pay Google for the map and tileserver use (even if
> they don't realise that's what they're paying for)?
>
> Or rather, since they've clearly not updated whatever agreement they had
> with Google for a while, /if/ the map were functioning would that mean
> they were paying Google?

Depending on how much usage it got, yes.

All Google Maps API usage now requires an API key. Each key has to be
associated with a billing account, and all usage is chargeable. But each
billing account gets $200 credit every calendar month, so if your total
usage is less than that it remains free.

(There is still an embeddable non-API version of Google Maps, but it's
very limited in functionality).

Mark

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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Andy Mabbett
In reply to this post by Gareth L
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 10:05, Gareth L <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Potentially use https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-put-OpenStreetMap-on-my-website

Fun though Quora is, I'd rather we pointed people at something that is
part of the OSM ecosystem;

   https://switch2osm.org/

which as created for this very purpose.

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@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Mark Goodge
In reply to this post by Tom Hughes-3


On 03/12/2019 15:48, Tom Hughes wrote:
> The reason they're getting that error is almost certainly that they
> aren't paying and they're either not passing an API key at all or
> they're passing one that is for a different site.
>
> Most likely the site was developed before API keys were required
> and has never been updated, but if they add a key they will almost
> certainly exceed the free allowance and have to pay which is likely
> why they haven't done so.

They are passing an API key. But it doesn't seem to have billing enabled
on it. Hence it won't be allowed to generate billable API calls.

Mark

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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Edward Bainton
I sense this is a good idea someone is sure to have had before and nixed - or else it's not a good idea at all.

Is there any reason why OSM can't set up a user co-op (for instance) that would offer a paid tileserver service?

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 15:58, Mark Goodge <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 03/12/2019 15:48, Tom Hughes wrote:
> The reason they're getting that error is almost certainly that they
> aren't paying and they're either not passing an API key at all or
> they're passing one that is for a different site.
>
> Most likely the site was developed before API keys were required
> and has never been updated, but if they add a key they will almost
> certainly exceed the free allowance and have to pay which is likely
> why they haven't done so.

They are passing an API key. But it doesn't seem to have billing enabled
on it. Hence it won't be allowed to generate billable API calls.

Mark

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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Richard Fairhurst
Edward Bainton wrote:
> Is there any reason why OSM can't set up a user co-op (for instance)
> that would offer a paid tileserver service?

It's an idea that's been thrown around now and then. In OSM, of course, "why
can't OSM..." is usually best rephrased as "hey, let's...". First person
plural. Thanks for volunteering! :)

(Alternatively, if you want someone else to do it for you, then you can
consider voting for OSMF board candidates who are likely to pursue this. I
would really caution against this, though, because OSM infrastructure is
currently run by volunteers and partly served by donated hardware; turning
that into an, at least partially, paid-for service would probably
necessitate rethinking the sysadmin and hardware situation from the ground
up.)

Richard




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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Edward Bainton
I'll gladly help with the incorporation and structuring the finance. No good at hardware or software though, and not sure what a sysadmin does...

So I take your point! I guess I wasn't really saying "someone should" but "in principle could someone?"

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 17:09, Richard Fairhurst <[hidden email]> wrote:
Edward Bainton wrote:
> Is there any reason why OSM can't set up a user co-op (for instance)
> that would offer a paid tileserver service?

It's an idea that's been thrown around now and then. In OSM, of course, "why
can't OSM..." is usually best rephrased as "hey, let's...". First person
plural. Thanks for volunteering! :)

(Alternatively, if you want someone else to do it for you, then you can
consider voting for OSMF board candidates who are likely to pursue this. I
would really caution against this, though, because OSM infrastructure is
currently run by volunteers and partly served by donated hardware; turning
that into an, at least partially, paid-for service would probably
necessitate rethinking the sysadmin and hardware situation from the ground
up.)

Richard




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Re: Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

Andy Townsend
In reply to this post by Edward Bainton
On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:
Hi all

General Elections Online (hosted at parliament.uk) have got a failed page where the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".

I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead. 

Can anyone point me to the precise technical detail their webmaster will need? Is it the wiki page, Deploying your own Slippy Map?

It depends very much on what they want to do.

At the highest level, they have a choice of two options - they can pay someone else to provide a service to them or they can create something themselves without using a third party.

IF someone else is providing a service the amount work that they need to do could be anything from nothing (like a new kitchen planned and installed for you for lots of £) to quite a lot (order some units from B&Q and assemble it yourself).

Andy's already mentioned https://switch2osm.org/ - that has an (incomplete) providers list at https://switch2osm.org/providers/ .  Many of the organisations there will be able to help and will be able to help them and may offer different products for different levels of involvement.

There's also the "completely do it yourself" option, which is actually somewhat easier than the kitchen analogue of a pile of timber from Jewson's.  One option that would achieve this would need:

  • Some map tiles underneath (which don't need to be hugely detailed)
  • A way of displaying constituency boundaries on top
  • A way of handling "user clicks on constituency A, display details"

The hard part might actually be making the whole lot robust enough to cope with demand over the next couple of weeks.  What wouldn't be a good idea would be using an existing set of free-at-the-point-of-use map tiles (such as the ones at OpenStreetMap.org) and expecting them to "just cope" with the volume - see https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/1122495446465810438 for what happened when the London Marathon did that (for completeness the relevant policy is at https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/tiles/ ).

If they did want to "completely do it themselves" then https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-18-04-lts/ will get them some raster map tiles, and https://switch2osm.org/using-tiles/ and the examples at (to pick just one example) https://leafletjs.com/ will allow them to create overlays over those, and allow people to click through for particular information.

With regards to the "hard part" they can restrict the map zoom to something that is not too high (enough so that constituencies are visible and clickable should be good enough) prerender tiles and cache them, but I'm sure they must have lots of familiarity with this sort of problem given that they already run a public and intermittently very busy website.

Best Regards,

Andy



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