Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
24 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Dave F.
Hi

A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I
guess this type of product will be on the increase so I think it's best
to clarify unified tag, if there's ever been such a thing in OSM :-)
Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over
e-cigarettes.

To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, but I thought
it best to discuss first. I don't smoke, are all these power based?

Dave F.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Matthijs Melissen
On 22 January 2015 at 14:02, Dave F. <[hidden email]> wrote:
> A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I guess this type
> of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify unified tag, if there's ever
> been such a thing in OSM :-)

Yes, I also think this is one of the more common shops that has no
clear defined tag.

> Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over e-cigarettes.

Currently, the most common tag is shop=e-cigarette:

e-cigarette x170
e_cigarette x10
electronic_cigarettes x8
electronic_cigarette x4
e-cigarettes x6

> To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, but I thought it best to discuss first. I don't smoke, are all these power based?

I understand your argument in favour of shop=electronic_cigarettes. If
you think it's worth it, feel free to start a proposal to change the
name.

-- Matthijs

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Dave F.
Ah, As normal cigarettes are sold in multiples I didn't think of
searching for the singular, but I guess people only buy one of these
electronic types.

Dave F.

On 22/01/2015 14:16, Matthijs Melissen wrote:

> On 22 January 2015 at 14:02, Dave F. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I guess this type
>> of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify unified tag, if there's ever
>> been such a thing in OSM :-)
> Yes, I also think this is one of the more common shops that has no
> clear defined tag.
>
>> Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over e-cigarettes.
> Currently, the most common tag is shop=e-cigarette:
>
> e-cigarette x170
> e_cigarette x10
> electronic_cigarettes x8
> electronic_cigarette x4
> e-cigarettes x6
>
>> To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, but I thought it best to discuss first. I don't smoke, are all these power based?
> I understand your argument in favour of shop=electronic_cigarettes. If
> you think it's worth it, feel free to start a proposal to change the
> name.
>
> -- Matthijs
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

althio
Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others


On 22 January 2015 at 15:43, Dave F. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ah, As normal cigarettes are sold in multiples I didn't think of searching
> for the singular, but I guess people only buy one of these electronic types.
>
> Dave F.
>
>
> On 22/01/2015 14:16, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>>
>> On 22 January 2015 at 14:02, Dave F. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I
>>> guess this type
>>> of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify
>>> unified tag, if there's ever
>>> been such a thing in OSM :-)
>>
>> Yes, I also think this is one of the more common shops that has no
>> clear defined tag.
>>
>>> Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over
>>> e-cigarettes.
>>
>> Currently, the most common tag is shop=e-cigarette:
>>
>> e-cigarette x170
>> e_cigarette x10
>> electronic_cigarettes x8
>> electronic_cigarette x4
>> e-cigarettes x6
>>
>>> To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, but I thought
>>> it best to discuss first. I don't smoke, are all these power based?
>>
>> I understand your argument in favour of shop=electronic_cigarettes. If
>> you think it's worth it, feel free to start a proposal to change the
>> name.
>>
>> -- Matthijs
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

moltonel 3x Combo
On 22/01/2015, althio <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others

Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice.

The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be
surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more
than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are
ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the change to wiki and db.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Dave F.




> Am 22.01.2015 um 15:02 schrieb Dave F. <[hidden email]>:
>
> To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used,


+1

cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

althio
In reply to this post by moltonel 3x Combo
>> Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki.
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others
>
> The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be
> surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more
> than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are
> ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the change to wiki and db.

Indeed. I wanted to point to existing pages to explain the apparent
choice of "e-cigarette" in taginfo.
Also discussion on the Talk:page should be good starting point for a
new proposal.


> Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice.

I was wondering. Could you confirm that "-" is avoided in tags? It is
not referenced at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like#Characters


> To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used

You will have to decide if a common abbreviation is acceptable.
[electronic_ OR e- OR e_]
And as you noticed, singular vs plural.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

sdoerr
In reply to this post by moltonel 3x Combo
On 22/01/2015 15:22, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
> On 22/01/2015, althio <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki.
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others
> Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice.
>

-1

The underscore character is widely substituted for the space character
in tag keys and values, but I think the hyphen is considered OK. For the
avoidance of doubt, in English you would write 'electronic cigarette'
(with a space) or 'e-cigarette' (with a hyphen), but not 'e cigarette'
(with a space).

--
Steve

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Andreas Goss
In reply to this post by moltonel 3x Combo
> Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice.

Only for whitespace as far as I know. So I don't see a issue here. I
would even say using _ is wrong.

e_cigarette => "e cigarette"
e-cigarette => "e-cigarette"

> The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be
> surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more
> than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are
> ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the change to wiki and db.

I just created the page, because the tag was used (TagInfo), but not
documented. See:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Undocumented_Tags

__________
openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88
wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88‎


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

fly high
In reply to this post by moltonel 3x Combo
Am 22.01.2015 um 16:22 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo:
> On 22/01/2015, althio <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki.
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others

Well the first page should be under proposal and it should not be listed
under shop or if only under some proposal paragraph

> Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice.

already answered

> The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be
> surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more
> than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are
> ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the change to wiki and db.

+1

Is it really to much typing to use electronic_cigarettes ?

Anyway, I do not know a single shop in my area which only sells them so
shop=* will never fit.

cu fly

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

panierAvide
In reply to this post by Andreas Goss
Hello,

Le 22/01/2015 17:50, Andreas Goss a écrit :
I just created the page, because the tag was used (TagInfo), but not documented. See:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Undocumented_Tags

And I added some more explanations on it because it was marked as undocumented. The added elements are common sense or based on what is already present in the database. I don't have any opinion on if the value is correct or should be changed ;)

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

moltonel 3x Combo
In reply to this post by fly high
On 22/01/2015, Andreas Goss <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice.
>
> Only for whitespace as far as I know. So I don't see a issue here.

That surprises me, but looking at a dump of Ireland (taginfo search is
too coarse, so I used some local data I had) there does seem to be
some cases, namely "semi-detached" and "multi-storey". I wanted to
search the british isles extract, but that's taking ages to process.

I stand corrected.

> I would even say using _ is wrong.
>
> e_cigarette => "e cigarette"
> e-cigarette => "e-cigarette"

It's not at all clear that "e-cigarette" is more common outside osm
than "e cigarette" or "ecigarette", as a google search will show you.


On 22/01/2015, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is it really to much typing to use electronic_cigarettes ?

I don't think so, I'd be happy to use the more verbose, less
marketing, less varied "electronic_cigarette" (singular, just because
there's no more reason to make it plural than any other shop=*
value... but it's a nitpick and I'm not going to argue about it if
people feel otherwise).

> Anyway, I do not know a single shop in my area which only sells them so
> shop=* will never fit.

I know a few that litterally sell just that. It's probably just a
trend (anyone knows of a shop that only sells cigarettes ?) but a lot
of them exist today.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Matthijs Melissen
In reply to this post by fly high
On 22 January 2015 at 18:00, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Well the first page should be under proposal and it should not be listed
> under shop or if only under some proposal paragraph

Only six shop types have been approved by the wiki/voting process:
bakery, baby_care, second_hand, seafood, bookmaker, and lottery (and
seafood is questionable due to not having the required number of
votes).

Do you suggest to list all other shop types, including well-known ones
such as shop=supermarket, as 'under proposal'?

>> The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be
>> surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more
>> than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are
>> ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the change to wiki and db.

There are at least 30 mappers who have used shop=e-cigarette. Almost
all of them started using this tag *after* user StephaneP imported
about 80 e-cigarette shops in France.

I also think that e-cigarette would be better than e_cigarette, as the
- does not represent a space, and "e-cigarette" is a regular English
word, used for instance in newspapers.

-- Matthijs

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

fly high
Am 22.01.2015 um 19:43 schrieb Matthijs Melissen:

> On 22 January 2015 at 18:00, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well the first page should be under proposal and it should not be listed
>> under shop or if only under some proposal paragraph
>
> Only six shop types have been approved by the wiki/voting process:
> bakery, baby_care, second_hand, seafood, bookmaker, and lottery (and
> seafood is questionable due to not having the required number of
> votes).
>
> Do you suggest to list all other shop types, including well-known ones
> such as shop=supermarket, as 'under proposal'?

No, but it is common sence to introduce tags in proposal name space and
once they are in common use accept them because of it use.

>>> The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be
>>> surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more
>>> than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are
>>> ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the change to wiki and db.
>
> There are at least 30 mappers who have used shop=e-cigarette. Almost
> all of them started using this tag *after* user StephaneP imported
> about 80 e-cigarette shops in France.
>
> I also think that e-cigarette would be better than e_cigarette, as the
> - does not represent a space, and "e-cigarette" is a regular English
> word, used for instance in newspapers.

No doubt about the spelling but still prefer a tag without abbreviation
and advertising background. So call it by proper name. In my case
electronic_cigarette=yes.

Cheers

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

moltonel 3x Combo
On 22/01/2015, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be
>>>> surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more
>>>> than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are
>>>> ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the change to wiki and db.
>>
>> There are at least 30 mappers who have used shop=e-cigarette. Almost
>> all of them started using this tag *after* user StephaneP imported
>> about 80 e-cigarette shops in France.

My hunch about few mapper was due to the spelling looking wrong to me,
and the many variations. Thanks for checking.

>> I also think that e-cigarette would be better than e_cigarette, as the
>> - does not represent a space, and "e-cigarette" is a regular English
>> word, used for instance in newspapers.
>
> No doubt about the spelling but still prefer a tag without abbreviation
> and advertising background. So call it by proper name. In my case
> electronic_cigarette=yes.

I always spelled it "ecigarette" in my mind, but what do I know ?
Googling and duckducking show all 3 variations to be fairly common.
But they're all kind of slang/marketing terms (like "e-cig"), so I
think that electronic_cigarette is a better fit for osm. FWIW, that's
what wikipedia uses too.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Andreas Goss
In reply to this post by fly high
On 1/22/15 23:13 , fly wrote:
> No, but it is common sence to introduce tags in proposal name space and
> once they are in common use accept them because of it use.

Well, you can go ahead and create dozens of proposals that will go
nowhere. I have completely given up on that process. It will be
discussed here for 1-2 days and then will be forgotten. (I even asked
for feedback for more feedback a few days ago... nothing). I'm not going
to waste my time with that anymore when it's always the same few people
who make any tag page edits in the Wiki anyway.

If someone does not like "in use" and prefers "proposed", fine go ahead
and write it. Don't like the tag at all: Create a proposal for an
alternative. But my time is limited and I rather have stuff documented
so other mappers can find it and we don't have 10x different tags with
slighly different meanings.
__________
openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88
wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88‎


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

John F. Eldredge
In reply to this post by Dave F.
On 01/22/2015 08:02 AM, Dave F. wrote:

> Hi
>
> A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I
> guess this type of product will be on the increase so I think it's best
> to clarify unified tag, if there's ever been such a thing in OSM :-)
> Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over
> e-cigarettes.
>
> To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, but I thought
> it best to discuss first. I don't smoke, are all these power based?

I don't smoke either, but my understanding is that the electronic
cigarette contains a battery-powered heater and a reservoir of
nicotine-containing liquid.  Some are designed to be thrown away once
the battery power and/or liquid are used up, others can have both the
battery and liquid replaced.

--
John F. Eldredge -- [hidden email]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Andrew Errington
How about "e-bacconist"?

Actually, I'm not seriously recommending it.  I thought I had just made up something new and unique, albeit tongue-in-cheek.  However, I just googled it and it appears to be a thing.

Andrew

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Paul Johnson-3
In reply to this post by Dave F.
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:02 AM, Dave F. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I guess this type of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify unified tag, if there's ever been such a thing in OSM :-) Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over e-cigarettes.

To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, but I thought it best to discuss first. I don't smoke, are all these power based?

As far as I am aware, yes, all e-cigarettes contain batteries. 


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Tac Tacelosky
Another legitimate terms for these shops is a "vape shop", and the practice of using any sort of electronic cigarette is now referred to as "vaping".  This is a better term than "smoking", as the product emits vapors, not smoke.

We are enthusiastic about seeing this term standardized, as many jurisdictions do not license or regulate vape shops in the same way they do places that sell cigarettes (and thus "e-cigarette" is a confusing term).   Our research is often about tobacco shops, and vape shops, because they're not licensed, introduce a new wrinkle.

Tac


On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Paul Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:02 AM, Dave F. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I guess this type of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify unified tag, if there's ever been such a thing in OSM :-) Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over e-cigarettes.

To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, but I thought it best to discuss first. I don't smoke, are all these power based?

As far as I am aware, yes, all e-cigarettes contain batteries. 


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging



_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
12