FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

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FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Brian Prangle-2
Hi everyone

So  far according tothe taginfo script we've managed to ADD 415 fixmes and remove 84 FIXMEs. I don't have data yet on OSM Notes. Don't know what's going on here with the increase when the aim of the project is to reduce the numbers by fixing the issues indicated nad thereby improve the qualit yof the data.

Should we be converting fixmes to OSM Notes -will this give the occasional mapper more chance of seeing them and adding detail or fixing them?

Should we be actively dissuading the use of fixmes for the same reason?

Regards

Brian

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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Mateusz Konieczny-3



21 Oct 2019, 11:46 by [hidden email]:
Hi everyone

So  far according tothe taginfo script we've managed to ADD 415 fixmes and remove 84 FIXMEs. I don't have data yet on OSM Notes. Don't know what's going on here with the increase when the aim of the project is to reduce the numbers by fixing the issues indicated nad thereby improve the qualit yof the data.
In my typical mapping surveys, even targeted at fixing fixmes and closing notes I often add more
than close.

For example single "fixme=continue" may be fixed, new path surveyed.
And multiple new "fixme=continue" added at junctions of just surveyed path where further
not yet surveyed paths are present.

I would also compare with previous months - maybe previously people were adding say 400 fixmes/month
and removing 10/month?
Should we be converting fixmes to OSM Notes -will this give the occasional mapper more chance of seeing them and adding detail or fixing them?

Should we be actively dissuading the use of fixmes for the same reason?
Fixme are useful in cases where it is valuable to attach them to a specific object.

fixme="verify path geometry" is often more clear when added to a way

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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Andy Townsend
On 21/10/2019 10:53, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:



21 Oct 2019, 11:46 by [hidden email]:
Hi everyone

So  far according tothe taginfo script we've managed to ADD 415 fixmes and remove 84 FIXMEs. I don't have data yet on OSM Notes. Don't know what's going on here with the increase when the aim of the project is to reduce the numbers by fixing the issues indicated nad thereby improve the qualit yof the data.
In my typical mapping surveys, even targeted at fixing fixmes and closing notes I often add more
than close.

Same here.  To add to what Mateusz has already said, all notes and fixmes are not alike though - what was originally one note "all the shops are missing here" might become two for two bits of minor details that need checking, after adding all the rest.



I would also compare with previous months - maybe previously people were adding say 400 fixmes/month
and removing 10/month?

I don't have data for the whole UK, but do have numbers for "OSM notes" and "fixme tags" for a couple of areas going back at least a couple of years.  If people are interested I could pull the numbers together.


Should we be converting fixmes to OSM Notes -will this give the occasional mapper more chance of seeing them and adding detail or fixing them?

Please no!  We already see examples of people closing notes because they don't want them to "clutter them map" and there have been "notes wars" in a couple of places around the world.

A significant number (probably most?) OSM notes and fixme tags need local knowledge or an on-the-ground survey, so an occasional mapper simply isn't going to be able to resolve them.  A mapper who is visiting somewhere new and actively wants to look for OSM notes and fixme tags can do that already, however they are represented.

Where it probably isn't worth adding fixme tags would be just drawing attention to some other missing data.  For example, a few years ago every house in Reading* had "fixme=add precise address" on it, which meant that to get a useful list of things that needed fixing there you had to explicitly filter those out to get a list, and then add one more item "collect housenumbers".  The same issue with OSM notes would be even more of a problem given that OSM notes are more visible than fixme tags.

Best Regards,

Andy

* See https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/98977855/history for an example.  It's worth noting that the house numbers and later postcodes did get added - you'd need to ask the person who did that whether the "fixme" tag was a factor here.  They certainly deserve a big pat on the back for adding all that data.




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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

andrew-2
On 2019-10-21 11:26, Andy Townsend wrote:
>
> I don't have data for the whole UK, but do have numbers for "OSM
> notes" and "fixme tags" for a couple of areas going back at least a
> couple of years.  If people are interested I could pull the numbers
> together.
>
I'd be interested in seeing these figures.


> Please no!  We already see examples of people closing notes because
> they don't want them to "clutter them map" and there have been "notes
> wars" in a couple of places around the world.

Agree. I cleared a note yesterday that came from OSB.  The actual issue
only lasted months and was corrected but the problem lurked in the Bug
system.


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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Rob Nickerson
In reply to this post by Brian Prangle-2
So far I have looked at two regions in the UK for fixmes: Warwickshire and the North West.

In Warwickshire it can be difficult to resolve the fixmes as most (but not all) require a lot of work. I found a completely different story in the North West. I found a good number of fixmes there which had already been resolved and therefore all I had to do was remove the redundant fixme=* tag. I also found a lot of fixme tags that could be resolved just by using the latest aerial imagery and/or GPS traces. Once again it has been a reminder of the differences between places within a few hours of each other.

As for adding new fixme tags, I personally haven't needed to do this yet. I am curious as to where "peak fixme" lies. If we had 10% more contributors would we end up with 10% more fixme tags or do you eventually get to a a point where you turn the corner and start ticking off all these quality assurance issues?

P.S. The number of Notes is on the up again as well. There are a lot of good descriptions in the Notes that can be used to update the map. Check them out at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=United%20Kingdom

Best regards,
Rob

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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Andy Townsend
In reply to this post by andrew-2
On 22/10/2019 10:38, [hidden email] wrote:
> On 2019-10-21 11:26, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>
>> I don't have data for the whole UK, but do have numbers for "OSM
>> notes" and "fixme tags" for a couple of areas going back at least a
>> couple of years.  If people are interested I could pull the numbers
>> together.
>>
> I'd be interested in seeing these figures.

You can see the figures for around York going back to January 2019 at
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/notesandfixmesnearyork.ods (I got bored
of copying numbers at that point).  The raw data's in there so you can
pretty it up a bit if you want.

The area that this corresponds to is
http://tools.geofabrik.de/calc/#type=geofabrik_standard&tab=1&bbox=-1.454,53.767,-0.654,54.247 
.

Best Regards,

Andy





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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Edward Bainton
In reply to this post by Rob Nickerson
What do I do about a fixme on a relation?

A bus route near me says fixme=check relation plus members - appears broken

Presumably 'broken' means the route has gaps in it?

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 21:18, Rob Nickerson <[hidden email]> wrote:
So far I have looked at two regions in the UK for fixmes: Warwickshire and the North West.

In Warwickshire it can be difficult to resolve the fixmes as most (but not all) require a lot of work. I found a completely different story in the North West. I found a good number of fixmes there which had already been resolved and therefore all I had to do was remove the redundant fixme=* tag. I also found a lot of fixme tags that could be resolved just by using the latest aerial imagery and/or GPS traces. Once again it has been a reminder of the differences between places within a few hours of each other.

As for adding new fixme tags, I personally haven't needed to do this yet. I am curious as to where "peak fixme" lies. If we had 10% more contributors would we end up with 10% more fixme tags or do you eventually get to a a point where you turn the corner and start ticking off all these quality assurance issues?

P.S. The number of Notes is on the up again as well. There are a lot of good descriptions in the Notes that can be used to update the map. Check them out at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=United%20Kingdom

Best regards,
Rob
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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Andy Townsend
On 05/11/2019 22:51, Edward Bainton wrote:
What do I do about a fixme on a relation?

A bus route near me says fixme=check relation plus members - appears broken

Presumably 'broken' means the route has gaps in it?

On a PC you can browse to https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522 and then zoom in to see what might be wrong with it.  Certainly the sections at https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=19/52.58621/-0.27555 don't seem to add up.  The view from the hospital car park should confirm where the relation should go there.

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Edward Bainton

http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeRelation?relationId=2580522&noCache=true&_noCache=on

Click on 'Analysis on map'

All bits with a marker need looking at, plus roundabouts require splitting as the bus doesn't go all the way around.

This one looks like a right mess given the loop with the bus stop is one way.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=19/52.58839/-0.21216

DaveF

On 05/11/2019 22:51, Edward Bainton wrote:
What do I do about a fixme on a relation?

A bus route near me says fixme=check relation plus members - appears broken
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=14/52.5823/-0.2418&layers=N

Presumably 'broken' means the route has gaps in it?

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 21:18, Rob Nickerson [hidden email]
wrote:

So far I have looked at two regions in the UK for fixmes: Warwickshire and
the North West.

In Warwickshire it can be difficult to resolve the fixmes as most (but not
all) require a lot of work. I found a completely different story in the
North West. I found a good number of fixmes there which had already been
resolved and therefore all I had to do was remove the redundant fixme=*
tag. I also found a lot of fixme tags that could be resolved just by using
the latest aerial imagery and/or GPS traces. Once again it has been a
reminder of the differences between places within a few hours of each other.

As for adding new fixme tags, I personally haven't needed to do this yet.
I am curious as to where "peak fixme" lies. If we had 10% more contributors
would we end up with 10% more fixme tags or do you eventually get to a a
point where you turn the corner and start ticking off all these quality
assurance issues?

P.S. The number of Notes is on the up again as well. There are a lot of
good descriptions in the Notes that can be used to update the map. Check
them out at
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=United%20Kingdom

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Edward Bainton
Thanks both

@Andy - you're right it certainly doesn't!
As the hospital access road (running ENE-WSW) is merely wide with islands rather than formally a dual carriageway, should it be shown as two ways like that?

[hidden email]  When you say roundabouts need splitting, will they still get interpreted as roundabouts by routers, ie, inferring the direction without a oneway tag, or do I tag the roundabout segments as one-way in a circle? (or something else!)

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 00:54, Dave F via Talk-GB <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeRelation?relationId=2580522&noCache=true&_noCache=on

Click on 'Analysis on map'

All bits with a marker need looking at, plus roundabouts require splitting as the bus doesn't go all the way around.

This one looks like a right mess given the loop with the bus stop is one way.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=19/52.58839/-0.21216

DaveF

On 05/11/2019 22:51, Edward Bainton wrote:
What do I do about a fixme on a relation?

A bus route near me says fixme=check relation plus members - appears broken
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=14/52.5823/-0.2418&layers=N

Presumably 'broken' means the route has gaps in it?

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 21:18, Rob Nickerson [hidden email]
wrote:

So far I have looked at two regions in the UK for fixmes: Warwickshire and
the North West.

In Warwickshire it can be difficult to resolve the fixmes as most (but not
all) require a lot of work. I found a completely different story in the
North West. I found a good number of fixmes there which had already been
resolved and therefore all I had to do was remove the redundant fixme=*
tag. I also found a lot of fixme tags that could be resolved just by using
the latest aerial imagery and/or GPS traces. Once again it has been a
reminder of the differences between places within a few hours of each other.

As for adding new fixme tags, I personally haven't needed to do this yet.
I am curious as to where "peak fixme" lies. If we had 10% more contributors
would we end up with 10% more fixme tags or do you eventually get to a a
point where you turn the corner and start ticking off all these quality
assurance issues?

P.S. The number of Notes is on the up again as well. There are a lot of
good descriptions in the Notes that can be used to update the map. Check
them out at
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=United%20Kingdom

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

David Woolley
In reply to this post by Great Britain mailing list
On 06/11/2019 00:53, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:
>
> This one looks like a right mess given the loop with the bus stop is one
> way.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=19/52.58839/-0.21216

It's also the wrong relation type.  route_masters should have route
relations as their members.  This one is just a route.

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Re: FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Edward Bainton
As long as all sections have junction=roundabout it will work fine, if
those creating routers are worth their salt. OSM is geospatially aware.
Any router should be know it's in the UK & drive on the left & go
clockwise around a roundabout.

DaveF

On 06/11/2019 07:40, Edward Bainton wrote:

> Thanks both
>
> @Andy - you're right it certainly doesn't!
> As the hospital access road (running ENE-WSW) is merely wide with islands
> rather than formally a dual carriageway, should it be shown as two ways
> like that?
>
> @Dave F <[hidden email]>  When you say roundabouts need
> splitting, will they still get interpreted as roundabouts by routers, ie,
> inferring the direction without a oneway tag, or do I tag the roundabout
> segments as one-way in a circle? (or something else!)
>
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 00:54, Dave F via Talk-GB <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeRelation?relationId=2580522&noCache=true&_noCache=on
>>
>> Click on 'Analysis on map'
>>
>> All bits with a marker need looking at, plus roundabouts require splitting
>> as the bus doesn't go all the way around.
>>
>> This one looks like a right mess given the loop with the bus stop is one
>> way.
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=19/52.58839/-0.21216
>>
>> DaveF
>>
>> On 05/11/2019 22:51, Edward Bainton wrote:
>>
>> What do I do about a fixme on a relation?
>>
>> A bus route near me says fixme=check relation plus members - appears brokenhttps://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2580522#map=14/52.5823/-0.2418&layers=N
>>
>> Presumably 'broken' means the route has gaps in it?
>>
>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 21:18, Rob Nickerson <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So far I have looked at two regions in the UK for fixmes: Warwickshire and
>> the North West.
>>
>> In Warwickshire it can be difficult to resolve the fixmes as most (but not
>> all) require a lot of work. I found a completely different story in the
>> North West. I found a good number of fixmes there which had already been
>> resolved and therefore all I had to do was remove the redundant fixme=*
>> tag. I also found a lot of fixme tags that could be resolved just by using
>> the latest aerial imagery and/or GPS traces. Once again it has been a
>> reminder of the differences between places within a few hours of each other.
>>
>> As for adding new fixme tags, I personally haven't needed to do this yet.
>> I am curious as to where "peak fixme" lies. If we had 10% more contributors
>> would we end up with 10% more fixme tags or do you eventually get to a a
>> point where you turn the corner and start ticking off all these quality
>> assurance issues?
>>
>> P.S. The number of Notes is on the up again as well. There are a lot of
>> good descriptions in the Notes that can be used to update the map. Check
>> them out athttp://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=United%20Kingdom
>>
>> Best regards,
>> *Rob*
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>>
>>
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