Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Sérgio V.
In a paralell thought, we could use more of Sentinel satellite weekly updated images 10m resolution in OSM for this kind of land covers.

>Arun Ganesh
>And yes, those glaciers have probably melted away and theres
>no practical way to ground truth them

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

SimonPoole
In reply to this post by Naveen Francis


Am 26.07.2019 um 19:30 schrieb Naveen Francis:
Including my ₹ 0.10 (Indian ten paisa)
 
Echoes same thoughts of Brazilian Real. 

AI-assisted human mapping tools will be a good aid for the OSM community.

"Map faster, Map better". 

40,00,000 kms to be mapped in India. 
15 years of OSM mapped 18,00,000 kms.

The (rhetoric) question is, why is this the case?

Because the community in India is still very small relative to the population size. 

So from where will the additional contributors come from that will turn the additional 4 million road geometries in to something really useful? There is a real danger of the desire for "completeness" instead of quality resulting in multiple TIGER 2.0s, and we are just now slowly working ourselves out of the hole we dug (full of good intentions) with the original. 

Note on the side: outside of raw total  road length, a much more sensible comparison would be completeness measures per road categories (which I suspect is likely to look far less dramatic) and which might give more realistic goals for the community.

Simon


thanks,
naveenpf


On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:42 AM Sérgio V. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just adding my R$0,02 (Brazilian Real).
I guess soon the AI assisted Human mapping will happen, it may be a very good help.
But I can't evaluate what's been publicized July 23, 2019 by
"To browse our machine learning road predictions or start mapping with RapiD, please visit mapwith.ai."
So at "Map faster, Map better" https://mapwith.ai/#14/6.13864/6.7698
I actually can't evaluate any result for roads at max zoom level 14, to see if it's really better. I can just believe it can be. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Mikel Maron-3
I'd love to move into rational and studied discussion of corporate involvement in OSM and the application of machine learning techniques. 

It's easy to get caught up in rhetoric. I dislike "turbocharged" as much as I dislike "exploitation". The entire application of machine learning is plagued with overblown rhetoric, when after all, it is simply a statistical technique.

OpenStreetMap was founded on equal parts radical, reactionary rhetoric, and JFDI. It's also easy to forget how much traditional map making rejected OSM --  that the craft of surveying is not something to be left to wild hooligans. While at the same time the involvement of companies was a critical part of the vision since 2004, from helping build software, selling GPS devices, hosting servers, and contributing data. And certainly bringing new people into the community -- no matter how people find OSM, I have almost universally seen a magic gleam in the eye of people who take part, that forms the core of many corporate initiatives in OSM. Just because my brain exploded with that vision of OSM before I started having the supreme privilege to spend my working days on it does not entitle me to some more exalted position.

I wonder if some of us have lost touch with that spirit, as OpenStreetMap has succeeded so wildly. I was so absorbed the audacious vision of OSM in 2005, I still am regularly shocked that anyone takes OSM seriously. Yes it is radical in 2019 to reject corporations and machine learning. But I think we have a lot more to offer than conservative rejection; rather we have a wildly successful, collaborative, practical approach that puts humans in the fore of complex technologies, as the world grapples with very complex times.

The reaction to Facebook's work really confuses me. Have critics of it actually tried it? I found it a measured approach, where every edit needs to be examined closely by a human and is checked for quality. The advantage of it, where I tried it in a dense partially mapped urban settlement, is that it highlighted missing streets very well, and made what would have been a maddening squinting process a bit smoother and more enjoyable. I still felt satisfaction in what I was doing. From talking with folks here in Kenya, there is genuine excitement at these new techniques. They've experienced the challenges of creating the map, and want to focus and build skills where their human abilities are most valuable. 

Now I am not saying that we accept anything without a critical examination. Absolutely not! What worries me is that our criticisms are not informed. And that there are valuable corporate contributions, and those that are not, and the same goes for new technologies.

Yes, there are quality issues. Yes, there are issues of the experience of the map and the community we built. Yes, there are serous issues of displacement and alienation. What are these specifically, and what are the range of responses we can explore together?

To take one example, Simon rightly points out that road geometry is only a portion, and perhaps the easiest portion, of what needs mapping. And that metrics to measure overall completeness sets real goals for us. How can we rally and build community around this? So many of our tools are oriented to greenfield mapping. What creative workflows, metrics, analysis and visualizations of OSM data can bring the same thrill of creating the map from a completely blank slate, to a stage of the map where the base geometry is there?

-Mikel

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Saturday, July 27, 2019, 01:43:59 PM GMT+3, Simon Poole <[hidden email]> wrote:



Am 26.07.2019 um 19:30 schrieb Naveen Francis:
Including my ₹ 0.10 (Indian ten paisa)
 
Echoes same thoughts of Brazilian Real. 

AI-assisted human mapping tools will be a good aid for the OSM community.

"Map faster, Map better". 

40,00,000 kms to be mapped in India. 
15 years of OSM mapped 18,00,000 kms.

The (rhetoric) question is, why is this the case?

Because the community in India is still very small relative to the population size. 

So from where will the additional contributors come from that will turn the additional 4 million road geometries in to something really useful? There is a real danger of the desire for "completeness" instead of quality resulting in multiple TIGER 2.0s, and we are just now slowly working ourselves out of the hole we dug (full of good intentions) with the original. 

Note on the side: outside of raw total  road length, a much more sensible comparison would be completeness measures per road categories (which I suspect is likely to look far less dramatic) and which might give more realistic goals for the community.

Simon



thanks,
naveenpf


On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:42 AM Sérgio V. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just adding my R$0,02 (Brazilian Real).
I guess soon the AI assisted Human mapping will happen, it may be a very good help.
But I can't evaluate what's been publicized July 23, 2019 by
"To browse our machine learning road predictions or start mapping with RapiD, please visit mapwith.ai."
So at "Map faster, Map better" https://mapwith.ai/#14/6.13864/6.7698
I actually can't evaluate any result for roads at max zoom level 14, to see if it's really better. I can just believe it can be. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Michael Kugelmann
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
Am 25.07.2019 um 11:36 schrieb Florian Lohoff:
> And IIRC it was about a
> collaboration with the local community in Thailand which their first aim
> was.
I just remember that the "collaboration" in Thailand some time ago
(might be years) was quite poor: by using AI generated data simply
thrown into the database they destroyed a lot of craft-mapped data. But
unfortunately I am not aware how this evolved and about the current
situation. That's the background why I would be very cautious about such
"collaboration statements".


BR,
Michael.


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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Frederik Ramm


Am Do., 25. Juli 2019 um 22:06 Uhr schrieb Frederik Ramm <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

On 7/25/19 17:05, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> so it is an official OpenStreetMap effort, the OpenStreetMap-Foundation
> is involved, and this is their statement? This is the impression I would
> get from reading this paragraph without background information.

No it is not. This press release is on the same level as "Cloudmade's
OpenStreetMap Project" so many years ago. It would be nice if our
communications working group had the capacity of rectifying such
misinformation, or if companies could simply treat us more fairly in
their never-ending quest for attention,


Almost a week has passed by. Have their been attempts by the board or a working group to get rectifications of the media outlets in order to make clear that there is no collaboration between OSM and Facebook for this ai project?

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Naveen Francis
In reply to this post by SimonPoole
Thanks Simon for the caution. 

Taking the of help AI doesn't mean that we do comprise on the quality. 

All the methods for initial road tracing, GPS tracing, Satellite image tracing or AI-assisted human mapping (which I have tried) has limitations. 

On Indian roads, we try to document as much as possible so that we don't make errors. 

On the rhetoric question:- 
We are using OSM maps life savings projects. https://keralarescue.in/map/ .  (2018 Kerala floods maps)
So both quantity and quality are equally important.

Another good thing is we have already implemented your suggestion - sensible comparison would be completeness measures per road categories

Categories wise completeness

All the best for fixing Tiger imports. 

thanks,
naveenpf


On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 4:15 PM Simon Poole <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am 26.07.2019 um 19:30 schrieb Naveen Francis:
Including my ₹ 0.10 (Indian ten paisa)
 
Echoes same thoughts of Brazilian Real. 

AI-assisted human mapping tools will be a good aid for the OSM community.

"Map faster, Map better". 

40,00,000 kms to be mapped in India. 
15 years of OSM mapped 18,00,000 kms.

The (rhetoric) question is, why is this the case?

Because the community in India is still very small relative to the population size. 

So from where will the additional contributors come from that will turn the additional 4 million road geometries in to something really useful? There is a real danger of the desire for "completeness" instead of quality resulting in multiple TIGER 2.0s, and we are just now slowly working ourselves out of the hole we dug (full of good intentions) with the original. 

Note on the side: outside of raw total  road length, a much more sensible comparison would be completeness measures per road categories (which I suspect is likely to look far less dramatic) and which might give more realistic goals for the community.

Simon


thanks,
naveenpf


On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:42 AM Sérgio V. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just adding my R$0,02 (Brazilian Real).
I guess soon the AI assisted Human mapping will happen, it may be a very good help.
But I can't evaluate what's been publicized July 23, 2019 by
"To browse our machine learning road predictions or start mapping with RapiD, please visit mapwith.ai."
So at "Map faster, Map better" https://mapwith.ai/#14/6.13864/6.7698
I actually can't evaluate any result for roads at max zoom level 14, to see if it's really better. I can just believe it can be. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

dieterdreist


Am Mo., 29. Juli 2019 um 12:05 Uhr schrieb Naveen Francis <[hidden email]>:
We are using OSM maps life savings projects. https://keralarescue.in/map/ .  (2018 Kerala floods maps)
So both quantity and quality are equally important.


speaking about risks, having an incomplete network of verified, correct roads is probably more useful and less troublesome than an "overcomplete" one which also contains non-existent roads (e.g. waterways interpreted as roads) or shows connections that aren't there in reality. 

Cheers,
Martin


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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Frederik Ramm
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
Hi,

On 29.07.19 11:57, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Almost a week has passed by. Have their been attempts by the board or a
> working group to get rectifications of the media outlets in order to
> make clear that there is no collaboration between OSM and Facebook for
> this ai project?

The board has neither discussed this nor taken any further steps. I
don't know if any working group has.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [hidden email]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Nuno Caldeira
In reply to this post by Naveen Francis

Às 11:02 de 29/07/2019, Naveen Francis escreveu:
>
> On the rhetoric question:-
> We are using OSM maps life savings projects.
> https://keralarescue.in/map/ . (2018 Kerala floods maps)
> So both quantity and quality are equally important.
>
I don't see the attribution on that map, or that website has an
exception like Facebook seems to have too?

Oh it does attribute, but you have to scroll down to see it. must be a
UX mistake...


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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Jóhannes Birgir Jensson
Now you are being obtuse.

29. júlí 2019 kl. 11:53, skrifaði "Nuno Caldeira" <[hidden email]>:
> I don't see the attribution on that map, or that website has an
> exception like Facebook seems to have too?
>
> Oh it does attribute, but you have to scroll down to see it. must be a
> UX mistake...

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Yuri Astrakhan-2
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 6:19 AM Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:
speaking about risks, having an incomplete network of verified, correct roads is probably more useful and less troublesome than an "overcomplete" one which also contains non-existent roads (e.g. waterways interpreted as roads) or shows connections that aren't there in reality. 

I think this position should be a bit more nuanced.  Taken to absurdity, OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having 101% of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand.  I'm sure we can find a good balance between both positions.

Thx!
--Yuri

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Joseph Eisenberg
Re: "OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having 101%
of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because
fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand"

I'm not certain this is true. It might be very difficult to find the
1% of incorrectly mapped roads; you don't know where to look, and you
must survey on the ground with GPS, and check each road segment to
find the 1% that actually are blocked by a fence or gate or don't
really go through that clump of trees.

In contrast, when 99% are missing it's very obvious when looking at
the map data. You still have to survey and add the streets, but it may
actually be faster to get to a complete map of your home neighborhood,
than trying to find 10 bad streets out of 1000 segments in your
neighborhood.

Finally, when you look at the map and it looks 100% complete, you
won't see the need to start mapping and become a totally addicted
OSMer like you will if your village is only 1% mapped, so we may not
get the new contributors that we need to actual maintain the data that
our robot mappers have added.

Joseph

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

General Discussion mailing list
On the other hand, if the map of your area is completely blank, it looks very daunting to a new mapper, who may be discouraged and abandon OSM (either as too difficult to improve and as too poor quality to use).
The map is constantly changing because roads and other things on the map are changing in the real world. A city might close off a road and then it will become a "bad" street. It's easier to delete a bad street than to add a bunch of streets, especially when you are surveying on foot and don't have a mouse.
I personally would much rather have a 101% map than a 1% map.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 9:21 AM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Re: "OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having 101%
of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because
fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand"

I'm not certain this is true. It might be very difficult to find the
1% of incorrectly mapped roads; you don't know where to look, and you
must survey on the ground with GPS, and check each road segment to
find the 1% that actually are blocked by a fence or gate or don't
really go through that clump of trees.

In contrast, when 99% are missing it's very obvious when looking at
the map data. You still have to survey and add the streets, but it may
actually be faster to get to a complete map of your home neighborhood,
than trying to find 10 bad streets out of 1000 segments in your
neighborhood.

Finally, when you look at the map and it looks 100% complete, you
won't see the need to start mapping and become a totally addicted
OSMer like you will if your village is only 1% mapped, so we may not
get the new contributors that we need to actual maintain the data that
our robot mappers have added.

Joseph

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

john whelan-2
I agree with Kathleen.  Given that smartphones are more common than internet connected computers and it is easier to add or change tags on a smartphone than add a long highway at least the locals stand more chance this way.

Cheerio John

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 1:00 PM Kathleen Lu via talk, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On the other hand, if the map of your area is completely blank, it looks very daunting to a new mapper, who may be discouraged and abandon OSM (either as too difficult to improve and as too poor quality to use).
The map is constantly changing because roads and other things on the map are changing in the real world. A city might close off a road and then it will become a "bad" street. It's easier to delete a bad street than to add a bunch of streets, especially when you are surveying on foot and don't have a mouse.
I personally would much rather have a 101% map than a 1% map.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 9:21 AM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Re: "OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having 101%
of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because
fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand"

I'm not certain this is true. It might be very difficult to find the
1% of incorrectly mapped roads; you don't know where to look, and you
must survey on the ground with GPS, and check each road segment to
find the 1% that actually are blocked by a fence or gate or don't
really go through that clump of trees.

In contrast, when 99% are missing it's very obvious when looking at
the map data. You still have to survey and add the streets, but it may
actually be faster to get to a complete map of your home neighborhood,
than trying to find 10 bad streets out of 1000 segments in your
neighborhood.

Finally, when you look at the map and it looks 100% complete, you
won't see the need to start mapping and become a totally addicted
OSMer like you will if your village is only 1% mapped, so we may not
get the new contributors that we need to actual maintain the data that
our robot mappers have added.

Joseph

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Yuri Astrakhan-2
Also, fully accurate data is a myth, even if we only have 1% completeness. Once data is beyond a certain size, it is guaranteed to be wrong, simply because humans always make mistakes and things always become outdated.  We can only discuss how close we are to the ideal "perfect accuracy", and what is the best method(s) to get there.  Per above, going from 1% to 101% completeness certainly gets us closer to the perfect accuracy, especially as John mentioned, with a mobile device it is easier to flag some minor mistake than to ignore the whole area because it only has 1% completeness.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 1:28 PM john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with Kathleen.  Given that smartphones are more common than internet connected computers and it is easier to add or change tags on a smartphone than add a long highway at least the locals stand more chance this way.

Cheerio John

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 1:00 PM Kathleen Lu via talk, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On the other hand, if the map of your area is completely blank, it looks very daunting to a new mapper, who may be discouraged and abandon OSM (either as too difficult to improve and as too poor quality to use).
The map is constantly changing because roads and other things on the map are changing in the real world. A city might close off a road and then it will become a "bad" street. It's easier to delete a bad street than to add a bunch of streets, especially when you are surveying on foot and don't have a mouse.
I personally would much rather have a 101% map than a 1% map.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 9:21 AM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Re: "OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having 101%
of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because
fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand"

I'm not certain this is true. It might be very difficult to find the
1% of incorrectly mapped roads; you don't know where to look, and you
must survey on the ground with GPS, and check each road segment to
find the 1% that actually are blocked by a fence or gate or don't
really go through that clump of trees.

In contrast, when 99% are missing it's very obvious when looking at
the map data. You still have to survey and add the streets, but it may
actually be faster to get to a complete map of your home neighborhood,
than trying to find 10 bad streets out of 1000 segments in your
neighborhood.

Finally, when you look at the map and it looks 100% complete, you
won't see the need to start mapping and become a totally addicted
OSMer like you will if your village is only 1% mapped, so we may not
get the new contributors that we need to actual maintain the data that
our robot mappers have added.

Joseph

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by General Discussion mailing list
Am Mo., 29. Juli 2019 um 19:00 Uhr schrieb Kathleen Lu via talk <[hidden email]>:
I personally would much rather have a 101% map than a 1% map.



it depends what you want to do with it, for data statistics or geocoding I'd also prefer a 101% map over a 1% map, but if I were to hike in difficult environment I'd much rather have a 1% map from OSM than a 101% map. A 1% map is certainly more inspiring than a 101% map. Probably a map with 1% roads and road connections that don't exist would make you turn away and choose a different map.

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by General Discussion mailing list
Map filled with nonsense is even worse, new mappers are much more scared by deleting thinks
than by mapping new ones.


29 Jul 2019, 18:57 by [hidden email]:
On the other hand, if the map of your area is completely blank, it looks very daunting to a new mapper, who may be discouraged and abandon OSM (either as too difficult to improve and as too poor quality to use).
The map is constantly changing because roads and other things on the map are changing in the real world. A city might close off a road and then it will become a "bad" street. It's easier to delete a bad street than to add a bunch of streets, especially when you are surveying on foot and don't have a mouse.
I personally would much rather have a 101% map than a 1% map.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 9:21 AM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Re: "OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having 101%
of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because
fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand"

I'm not certain this is true. It might be very difficult to find the
1% of incorrectly mapped roads; you don't know where to look, and you
must survey on the ground with GPS, and check each road segment to
find the 1% that actually are blocked by a fence or gate or don't
really go through that clump of trees.

In contrast, when 99% are missing it's very obvious when looking at
the map data. You still have to survey and add the streets, but it may
actually be faster to get to a complete map of your home neighborhood,
than trying to find 10 bad streets out of 1000 segments in your
neighborhood.

Finally, when you look at the map and it looks 100% complete, you
won't see the need to start mapping and become a totally addicted
OSMer like you will if your village is only 1% mapped, so we may not
get the new contributors that we need to actual maintain the data that
our robot mappers have added.

Joseph

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Mark Wagner
In reply to this post by Yuri Astrakhan-2
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:53:07 -0400
Yuri Astrakhan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 6:19 AM Martin Koppenhoefer
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > speaking about risks, having an incomplete network of verified,
> > correct roads is probably more useful and less troublesome than an
> > "overcomplete" one which also contains non-existent roads (e.g.
> > waterways interpreted as roads) or shows connections that aren't
> > there in reality.
>
> I think this position should be a bit more nuanced.  Taken to
> absurdity, OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than
> having 101% of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of
> extras, because fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by
> hand.  I'm sure we can find a good balance between both positions.

Having hiked in areas with 1% maps, and having hiked in areas with 101%
maps, I have to say that I prefer the 1% map.  With the 1% map, there's
at least no question that you're off the map and on your own for
route-finding.  With the 101% map, it's very easy to get in trouble
because the connecting trail you were counting on doesn't exist.

--
Mark

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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Yves-2
No need to argue that much about it:
I think everyone will agree that we should not, at any case, add a track in OSM that doesn't exist.
It can be dangerous in any emergency situation anywhere in the world.
Yves
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Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Yves-2
In reply to this post by john whelan-2
John, Kathleen, thank you for this perspective I did not have.
Yves

Le 29 juillet 2019 19:25:34 GMT+02:00, john whelan <[hidden email]> a écrit :
I agree with Kathleen.  Given that smartphones are more common than internet connected computers and it is easier to add or change tags on a smartphone than add a long highway at least the locals stand more chance this way.

Cheerio John

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 1:00 PM Kathleen Lu via talk, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On the other hand, if the map of your area is completely blank, it looks very daunting to a new mapper, who may be discouraged and abandon OSM (either as too difficult to improve and as too poor quality to use).
The map is constantly changing because roads and other things on the map are changing in the real world. A city might close off a road and then it will become a "bad" street. It's easier to delete a bad street than to add a bunch of streets, especially when you are surveying on foot and don't have a mouse.
I personally would much rather have a 101% map than a 1% map.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 9:21 AM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Re: "OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having 101%
of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because
fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand"

I'm not certain this is true. It might be very difficult to find the
1% of incorrectly mapped roads; you don't know where to look, and you
must survey on the ground with GPS, and check each road segment to
find the 1% that actually are blocked by a fence or gate or don't
really go through that clump of trees.

In contrast, when 99% are missing it's very obvious when looking at
the map data. You still have to survey and add the streets, but it may
actually be faster to get to a complete map of your home neighborhood,
than trying to find 10 bad streets out of 1000 segments in your
neighborhood.

Finally, when you look at the map and it looks 100% complete, you
won't see the need to start mapping and become a totally addicted
OSMer like you will if your village is only 1% mapped, so we may not
get the new contributors that we need to actual maintain the data that
our robot mappers have added.

Joseph

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