Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

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Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Valor Naram
Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy 

Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.

Cheerio

Sören alias Valor Naram

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

bkil
Thank you for taking the time to complete this nice write up. I obviously support the proposed scheme. ;-)

I don't have strong feelings about the exact naming of the used key, as I mentioned previously.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 5:14 PM Valor Naram <[hidden email]> wrote:
Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy 

Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.

Cheerio

Sören alias Valor Naram
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Warin
+1 for starting it.

Think the name could be better .. sounds like a baby exchange :)

On 21/04/19 04:59, bkil wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to complete this nice write up. I obviously support the proposed scheme. ;-)

I don't have strong feelings about the exact naming of the used key, as I mentioned previously.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 5:14 PM Valor Naram <[hidden email]> wrote:
Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy 

Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.

Cheerio

Sören alias Valor Naram
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

bkil
Here are some alternatives, do share your concerns with each:
nappy_changing=*
nappy_changing_place=*
nappy_changing_table=*
nappy_changing_room=*
... same with _change_ in place of _changing_

Some I do not like as much:
changing_table=*
change_table=*
baby_table=*
diaper=*
diaper_table=*
nappy_table=*

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 2:07 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for starting it.

Think the name could be better .. sounds like a baby exchange :)

On 21/04/19 04:59, bkil wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to complete this nice write up. I obviously support the proposed scheme. ;-)

I don't have strong feelings about the exact naming of the used key, as I mentioned previously.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 5:14 PM Valor Naram <[hidden email]> wrote:
Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy 

Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.

Cheerio

Sören alias Valor Naram
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Tagging mailing list
 changing_table seems to be the most common term so we should use it.




Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Sonntag, April 21, 2019, 9:12 AM schrieb bkil <[hidden email]>:

Here are some alternatives, do share your concerns with each:
nappy_changing=*
nappy_changing_place=*
nappy_changing_table=*
nappy_changing_room=*
... same with _change_ in place of _changing_

Some I do not like as much:
changing_table=*
change_table=*
baby_table=*
diaper=*
diaper_table=*
nappy_table=*

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 2:07 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for starting it.

Think the name could be better .. sounds like a baby exchange :)

On 21/04/19 04:59, bkil wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to complete this nice write up. I obviously support the proposed scheme. ;-)

I don't have strong feelings about the exact naming of the used key, as I mentioned previously.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 5:14 PM Valor Naram <[hidden email]> wrote:
Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy 

Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.

Cheerio

Sören alias Valor Naram
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Joseph Eisenberg
"Changing table" is also the term that makes sense to me as a speaker
of American English.

As a parent I would appreciate knowing if there is a table where I can
place my infant child while changing their diaper ("nappy"); otherwise
I need to use my lap or the floor in the bathroom.

While I have worked in nursing homes, I can't recall seeing anything
that might be considered a "changing table" for adults. There are
hospital beds and examination tables and special wheelchair lifts, but
not something specific for changing adult undergarments.

So I don't think it's necessary to add "baby" or "infant" to the tag.

On 4/21/19, Michael Brandtner via Tagging <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  changing_table seems to be the most common term so we should use it.
> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/changing%20tablehttps://www.dictionary.com/browse/changing-table
>
>
>
> Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad
>
>
> Am Sonntag, April 21, 2019, 9:12 AM schrieb bkil <[hidden email]>:
>
> Here are some alternatives, do share your concerns with
> each:nappy_changing=*nappy_changing_place=*nappy_changing_table=*nappy_changing_room=*...
> same with _change_ in place of _changing_
> Some I do not like as
> much:changing_table=*change_table=*baby_table=*diaper=*diaper_table=*nappy_table=*
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 2:07 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>   +1 for starting it.
>
>  Think the name could be better .. sounds like a baby exchange :)
>
>  On 21/04/19 04:59, bkil wrote:
>
>  Thank you for taking the time to complete this nice write up. I obviously
> support the proposed scheme. ;-)
>   I don't have strong feelings about the exact naming of the used key, as I
> mentioned previously.
>   On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 5:14 PM Valor Naram <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>   Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy
> Proposal page:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/baby_changing_tables
>   Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.
>   Cheerio
>   Sören alias Valor Naram  _______________________________________________
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>
>
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Paul Allen
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 15:43, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Changing table" is also the term that makes sense to me as a speaker
of American English.

The only possible ambiguity is if it is located in a temple.  It could belong to the money changers.

--
Paul


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

ebel
In reply to this post by Valor Naram
This would certainly be a little more obvious than the existing `diaper`
tag.

The current proposal is baby_changing_table=*, but the common values for
diaper=* include things like diaper=room, diaper=table, diaper=bench, so
I think limiting this tag to just tables is bad. May I suggest
baby_changing_facilities=* instead?

Lots of editors support the `diaper` tag, so you should submit patches
to them to support this.

(And as a native (Hiberno) English speaker, "baby changing" sounds fine
for changing a baby's nappy, not changing the baby for another baby! :P )

On 20.04.19 17:12, Valor Naram wrote:

> *Definition:* A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy
> *Proposal page:*
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/baby_changing_tables
>
> Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.
>
> Cheerio
>
> Sören alias Valor Naram
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Paul Allen
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 16:58, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> wrote:

(And as a native (Hiberno) English speaker, "baby changing" sounds fine
for changing a baby's nappy, not changing the baby for another baby! :P )

Changing a baby for a different baby would be silly.  However, if I were given the
opportunity to change the baby for a cat...

--
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Valor Naram
In reply to this post by bkil
> Here are some alternatives, do share your concerns with each:
: )

1) I am not on the same opinion concerning the name "nappy_changing" or something like nappy:

1.1. We've had heard about changing tables for adults hence the name "baby_changing_table" in order to distinguish between changing tables for changing nappies of babies and changing nappies of adult. My idea is that a future proposal could easily adapt from mine. So a "adult_changing_table" key could co-exist with "baby_changing_table".

1.2. We could of course name the key "baby_nappy_changing_table" or something like that but it think this would lead to clustering and therefore to the key being harder to remember. Keep it simple ( KISS ) is my devise.

2)
> nappy_changing_place=*
> nappy_changing_table=*
> nappy_changing_room=*

I don't consider it as good practise. We have the possibility to add subtags and should take use of that. So "place" is a subtag and belongs to "nappy_changing" hence it should be named "nappy_changing:place". Syntax: "
:". The same goes for the other two. See also my concerns about the use of "nappy" ( "nappy_changing_table" ) in section 1) of this mail.

3)
> ... same with _change_ in place of _changing_

I could imagine using "change" instead of "changing" e.g. "baby_change_table", "baby_change_table:location", ... Maybe there are some more (different) opinions out there since this discussion is meant to improve my proposal.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table
From: bkil
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
CC:


Here are some alternatives, do share your concerns with each:
nappy_changing=*
nappy_changing_place=*
nappy_changing_table=*
nappy_changing_room=*
... same with _change_ in place of _changing_

Some I do not like as much:
changing_table=*
change_table=*
baby_table=*
diaper=*
diaper_table=*
nappy_table=*

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 2:07 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for starting it.

Think the name could be better .. sounds like a baby exchange :)

On 21/04/19 04:59, bkil wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to complete this nice write up. I obviously support the proposed scheme. ;-)

I don't have strong feelings about the exact naming of the used key, as I mentioned previously.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 5:14 PM Valor Naram <[hidden email]> wrote:
Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy 

Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.

Cheerio

Sören alias Valor Naram
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Valor Naram
In reply to this post by Valor Naram
The name of the key has been changed to "changing_table"

On Sat, 2019-04-20 at 17:12 +0200, Valor Naram wrote:
Definition: A tag to mark the possibility to change the baby's nappy 
Proposal page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/baby_changing_tables

Please join the discussion and I will spend time to make changes.

Cheerio

Sören alias Valor Naram
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Tagging mailing list
In reply to this post by ebel
Even if there is an extra room, there will be a changing table in it. and the bench is a substitute for a changing table. So I don't find this tag limiting. Of course there will be also a bin and a washing basin in such a room. But the table is the most important feature, similar to amenity=toilets



Am Sonntag, April 21, 2019, 5:56 PM schrieb Rory McCann <[hidden email]>:

The current proposal is baby_changing_table=*, but the common values for
diaper=* include things like diaper=room, diaper=table, diaper=bench, so
I think limiting this tag to just tables is bad. May I suggest
baby_changing_facilities=* instead?


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

marc marc
Hello,

> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/baby_changing_tables

First of all, thank you for writing the proposal.

however I wonder if it's useful to promote changing_table:height
is there really any use for this tag ? I didn't find this kind of
information in the current diaper=* key
of course we can always list every possible and imaginable combination
(color, material, room lighting, width, presence of straps) but I think
it is useful to encourage people to fill usefull/used information
instead of asking then to fill a lot of informations not used.

same thing for the description key, I can't imagine when it's useful to
describe the table with words so I find it not very useful to promote it

I also ask where a changing_table:access=private or =no may be usefull
I think the reasoning used for toilets should also apply to equipment
such as a changing_table: if it is totally private, such as the changing
table in your home bathroom, it is not necessary to add in osm.
nothing obviously prevents someone from mapping his house in osm,
but I don't find it useful to promote it on every page of any equipment
that may exist at home.

even access=permissive seems strange to me for this kind of equipment,
I don't know of any law instituting a right to the changing table, so
all those who are access=yes are access=permissive because their
owner has the right to change their mind without asking someone else

changing_table:location=dedicated_room
if the purpose is to change the key diaper=room to diaper=yes +
diaper:location=dedicated_room I think this value is an too precise
assumption. the few changing tables I met in a room separate from the
toilets were not in a dedicated room. it was often in the room with
the sinks, the entrance hall of the different toilets or in a
multi-purpose room.

"Rendered as: hidden" can also be deleted in my opinion. each style
chooses or not what it wants to display, the only useful thing could be
to find an icon. but considering the so little style that displays
diaper=* it is probably not to be expected that many style 'll display
the new key

since this proposal is to replace an existing key, it is useful
to make a short list of current usage and their new key/value

don't be afraid of the suggestion list, they are only suggestions to
discuss in order to try to make the proposal as useful as possible.

Regards,
Marc
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Paul Allen
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 22:56, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:

however I wonder if it's useful to promote changing_table:height
is there really any use for this tag ?

A parent in a wheelchair might find that useful information, although it would only influence a
decision if there were similar facilities nearby.

same thing for the description key, I can't imagine when it's useful to
describe the table with words so I find it not very useful to promote it

Description is a standard tag applicable (at least in theory) to all objects and used where
there is something that distinguishes the object from others in its class or where it differs
significantly from what might otherwise be expected.  It's rare that I use description=* for
any object, but occasionally it is useful.

I also ask where a changing_table:access=private or =no may be usefull
I think the reasoning used for toilets should also apply to equipment
such as a changing_table: if it is totally private, such as the changing
table in your home bathroom, it is not necessary to add in osm.

Some people may feel uncomfortable changing their baby in public view.  Especially if
a down-market tabloid newspaper recently fuelled fear of paedophiles to boost its
circulation.

even access=permissive seems strange to me for this kind of equipment,
I don't know of any law instituting a right to the changing table, so
all those who are access=yes are access=permissive because their
owner has the right to change their mind without asking someone else

Not sure about this one.  There are all sorts of fine distinctions.  A cafe might have a changing
table for use by customers, or may permit non-customers to use it if they ask.

changing_table:location=dedicated_room
if the purpose is to change the key diaper=room to diaper=yes +
diaper:location=dedicated_room I think this value is an too precise
assumption. the few changing tables I met in a room separate from the
toilets were not in a dedicated room. it was often in the room with
the sinks, the entrance hall of the different toilets or in a
multi-purpose room.

If you never encountered a changing table in a dedicated room then don't map it as such.
I have no problem with future-proofing a proposal.  Because eventually somebody will encounter
a changing table in a dedicated room and wonder how to map it.  Let's decide on a sensible way of
doing it now rather than regretting we had not done so after somebody invents an ad-hoc way of
tagging it.

since this proposal is to replace an existing key, it is useful
to make a short list of current usage and their new key/value

Good point.

don't be afraid of the suggestion list, they are only suggestions to
discuss in order to try to make the proposal as useful as possible.

Don't say that!  You/ll make us seem warm and cuddly.  I've worked hard over many decades to
appear curmudgeonly.

--
Paul


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 08:40, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 22:56, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:

however I wonder if it's useful to promote changing_table:height
is there really any use for this tag ?

A parent in a wheelchair might find that useful information, although it would only influence a
decision if there were similar facilities nearby.

Thinking back (haven't had to use them for many years!, & don't often see them in male public toilets), but I'd say that they're all at a pretty standard height above the floor - adult waste height or approx 1 - 1.1m  

I've worked hard over many decades to appear curmudgeonly.

Sorry, Paul - hasn't worked!

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

marc marc
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
Le 22.04.19 à 00:39, Paul Allen a écrit :
> On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 22:56, marc marc wrote:
>
>     however I wonder if it's useful to promote changing_table:height
>     is there really any use for this tag ?
>
> A parent in a wheelchair might find that useful information,  

if the goal is to talk about accessibility, then use the wheelchair tag.
but if by measuring the height of the table, you think you have done
what it's need to inform accessibility, you are wrong, this detail is
almost anecdotal in accessibility. the entrance of the poi must be
accessible, at least one path need to be accessible from the entrance to
the changing table (including door and corridor). and if the height of
the table then fits, a lot of tilting changing table are inaccessible
because the lock is often too high even if the table height is very low.
that's why I think promoting changing_table:height is a bad idea,
the contributor thinks he has entered useful information but it's not.
let's keep it simple, if one day someone see an accessible changing
table, add the tag wheelchair=yes
for all the others, no need to have a meter in your pocket,
it's wheelchair=no, no need to fill heigh=1 or 1.05 or .95 except for 3D

>     same thing for the description key, I can't imagine when it's useful to
>     describe the table with words so I find it not very useful to promote it
>
> Description is a standard tag applicable

I know the tag description, thanks :)
the question is "can we expect to have changing tables on a regular
basis that are different from what we can expect with other tags,
which would justify encouraging people to put a description ?
because if it is to inform the existence of a tag, we can edit
the whole wiki to say that the description tag exists,
which would increase the background noise without any added value.

>     I also ask where a changing_table:access=private or =no may be usefull
>     I think the reasoning used for toilets should also apply to equipment
>     such as a changing_table: if it is totally private, such as the
>     changing
>     table in your home bathroom, it is not necessary to add in osm.
>
>
> Some people may feel uncomfortable changing their baby in public view.  

access=* don't said anything about public view.
changing tables in a private area does not mean that your child
is protected from a public view (I know a changing table in
the private part of the maternity just in front of a windows
with a public corridor)
a changing table in a public toilet can be in a room that
is respectful of privacy.
if you want to inform this kind of info, it's probably better
to make another proposal for another key in stead of promoting
to hijack the access key to talk about public view when using
the feature.

>     changing_table:location=dedicated_room
>     if the purpose is to change the key diaper=room to diaper=yes +
>     location=dedicated_room I think this value is an too precise
>     assumption

> If you never encountered a changing table in a dedicated room  
> then don't map it as such.

that's not what I said.
what I'm saying is : diaper=room doesn't have the same meaning
as changing_table:location=dedicated_room
if the proposal wants to change one by the other, that's not true.
so at least changing_table:location=room is needed to be able to
convert existing information without making any erroneous assumption.
Of course, i didn't disagree to use dedicated_room when it's
a dedicated_room :)

Regards,
Marc
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Warin
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
On 22/04/19 00:48, Paul Allen wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 15:43, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Changing table" is also the term that makes sense to me as a speaker
of American English.

The only possible ambiguity is if it is located in a temple.  It could belong to the money changers.


OSM has a tag for currency exchange ... arr

Amenity(what else?)=bureau_de_change (French ... for British English .. I suppose that is historical as the brits went overseas to France first.. )



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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Valor Naram
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
+1 I agree with Paul


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table
From: Paul Allen
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
CC:


On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 22:56, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:

however I wonder if it's useful to promote changing_table:height
is there really any use for this tag ?

A parent in a wheelchair might find that useful information, although it would only influence a
decision if there were similar facilities nearby.

same thing for the description key, I can't imagine when it's useful to
describe the table with words so I find it not very useful to promote it

Description is a standard tag applicable (at least in theory) to all objects and used where
there is something that distinguishes the object from others in its class or where it differs
significantly from what might otherwise be expected.  It's rare that I use description=* for
any object, but occasionally it is useful.

I also ask where a changing_table:access=private or =no may be usefull
I think the reasoning used for toilets should also apply to equipment
such as a changing_table: if it is totally private, such as the changing
table in your home bathroom, it is not necessary to add in osm.

Some people may feel uncomfortable changing their baby in public view.  Especially if
a down-market tabloid newspaper recently fuelled fear of paedophiles to boost its
circulation.

even access=permissive seems strange to me for this kind of equipment,
I don't know of any law instituting a right to the changing table, so
all those who are access=yes are access=permissive because their
owner has the right to change their mind without asking someone else

Not sure about this one.  There are all sorts of fine distinctions.  A cafe might have a changing
table for use by customers, or may permit non-customers to use it if they ask.

changing_table:location=dedicated_room
if the purpose is to change the key diaper=room to diaper=yes +
diaper:location=dedicated_room I think this value is an too precise
assumption. the few changing tables I met in a room separate from the
toilets were not in a dedicated room. it was often in the room with
the sinks, the entrance hall of the different toilets or in a
multi-purpose room.

If you never encountered a changing table in a dedicated room then don't map it as such.
I have no problem with future-proofing a proposal.  Because eventually somebody will encounter
a changing table in a dedicated room and wonder how to map it.  Let's decide on a sensible way of
doing it now rather than regretting we had not done so after somebody invents an ad-hoc way of
tagging it.

since this proposal is to replace an existing key, it is useful
to make a short list of current usage and their new key/value

Good point.

don't be afraid of the suggestion list, they are only suggestions to
discuss in order to try to make the proposal as useful as possible.

Don't say that!  You/ll make us seem warm and cuddly.  I've worked hard over many decades to
appear curmudgeonly.

--
Paul


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

Warin
In reply to this post by marc marc
On 22/04/19 09:49, marc marc wrote:

> Le 22.04.19 à 00:39, Paul Allen a écrit :
>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 22:56, marc marc wrote:
>>
>>      however I wonder if it's useful to promote changing_table:height
>>      is there really any use for this tag ?
>>
>> A parent in a wheelchair might find that useful information,
> if the goal is to talk about accessibility, then use the wheelchair tag.
> but if by measuring the height of the table, you think you have done
> what it's need to inform accessibility, you are wrong, this detail is
> almost anecdotal in accessibility. the entrance of the poi must be
> accessible, at least one path need to be accessible from the entrance to
> the changing table (including door and corridor).

Think the door has to be some 900mm wide and so on.

>   and if the height of
> the table then fits, a lot of tilting changing table are inaccessible
> because the lock is often too high even if the table height is very low.
> that's why I think promoting changing_table:height is a bad idea,
> the contributor thinks he has entered useful information but it's not.
> let's keep it simple, if one day someone see an accessible changing
> table, add the tag wheelchair=yes
> for all the others, no need to have a meter in your pocket,
> it's wheelchair=no, no need to fill heigh=1 or 1.05 or .95 except for 3D

Not just the height of the table, but also to be able to push the wheelchair at least partially under the table reduces arm strain a lot.
And wheelchair users probably want the table at a lower height than 1.1 metres.

>
>>      same thing for the description key, I can't imagine when it's useful to
>>      describe the table with words so I find it not very useful to promote it
>>
>> Description is a standard tag applicable
> I know the tag description, thanks :)
> the question is "can we expect to have changing tables on a regular
> basis that are different from what we can expect with other tags,
> which would justify encouraging people to put a description ?
> because if it is to inform the existence of a tag, we can edit
> the whole wiki to say that the description tag exists,
> which would increase the background noise without any added value.
>
>>      I also ask where a changing_table:access=private or =no may be usefull
>>      I think the reasoning used for toilets should also apply to equipment
>>      such as a changing_table: if it is totally private, such as the
>>      changing
>>      table in your home bathroom, it is not necessary to add in osm.
>>
>>
>> Some people may feel uncomfortable changing their baby in public view.
> access=* don't said anything about public view.
> changing tables in a private area does not mean that your child
> is protected from a public view (I know a changing table in
> the private part of the maternity just in front of a windows
> with a public corridor)
> a changing table in a public toilet can be in a room that
> is respectful of privacy.
> if you want to inform this kind of info, it's probably better
> to make another proposal for another key in stead of promoting
> to hijack the access key to talk about public view when using
> the feature.

There are a few toilets with very nice views...

>
>>      changing_table:location=dedicated_room
>>      if the purpose is to change the key diaper=room to diaper=yes +
>>      location=dedicated_room I think this value is an too precise
>>      assumption
>> If you never encountered a changing table in a dedicated room
>> then don't map it as such.
> that's not what I said.
> what I'm saying is : diaper=room doesn't have the same meaning
> as changing_table:location=dedicated_room
> if the proposal wants to change one by the other, that's not true.
> so at least changing_table:location=room is needed to be able to
> convert existing information without making any erroneous assumption.
> Of course, i didn't disagree to use dedicated_room when it's
> a dedicated_room :)
>
> Regards,
> Marc
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

bkil
height=* was my fault, but I don't feel strongly about it, you may remove it then. "straps" and "tilting" could still go under the list of *:feature=*, though, that's a good idea.

toilet vs. room vs. dedicated_room:
How do you map a changing table that is found inside a small "toilets" corridor/area behind closed doors but before entering the door for a specific gender's toilet?

access=private
I always remind others to focus on points of _public_ interest when they are working on extending our public map. This is the same reason we don't map all Wi-Fi, even if they are completely open to the public, but operated by a home owner who is otherwise not a point of interest.

Although, verifying whether wi-fi still works would be straight forward (could even be automated using an app) and you might also see the mapped private statue through the window or one residing on the front yard, mapping private water taps are not verifiable for example, as it is not realistic that dozens of passer by mappers will ring the doorbell every day to double check whether the tap is still operable.

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 9:02 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 22/04/19 09:49, marc marc wrote:
> Le 22.04.19 à 00:39, Paul Allen a écrit :
>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 22:56, marc marc wrote:
>>
>>      however I wonder if it's useful to promote changing_table:height
>>      is there really any use for this tag ?
>>
>> A parent in a wheelchair might find that useful information,
> if the goal is to talk about accessibility, then use the wheelchair tag.
> but if by measuring the height of the table, you think you have done
> what it's need to inform accessibility, you are wrong, this detail is
> almost anecdotal in accessibility. the entrance of the poi must be
> accessible, at least one path need to be accessible from the entrance to
> the changing table (including door and corridor).

Think the door has to be some 900mm wide and so on.

>   and if the height of
> the table then fits, a lot of tilting changing table are inaccessible
> because the lock is often too high even if the table height is very low.
> that's why I think promoting changing_table:height is a bad idea,
> the contributor thinks he has entered useful information but it's not.
> let's keep it simple, if one day someone see an accessible changing
> table, add the tag wheelchair=yes
> for all the others, no need to have a meter in your pocket,
> it's wheelchair=no, no need to fill heigh=1 or 1.05 or .95 except for 3D

Not just the height of the table, but also to be able to push the wheelchair at least partially under the table reduces arm strain a lot.
And wheelchair users probably want the table at a lower height than 1.1 metres.

>
>>      same thing for the description key, I can't imagine when it's useful to
>>      describe the table with words so I find it not very useful to promote it
>>
>> Description is a standard tag applicable
> I know the tag description, thanks :)
> the question is "can we expect to have changing tables on a regular
> basis that are different from what we can expect with other tags,
> which would justify encouraging people to put a description ?
> because if it is to inform the existence of a tag, we can edit
> the whole wiki to say that the description tag exists,
> which would increase the background noise without any added value.
>
>>      I also ask where a changing_table:access=private or =no may be usefull
>>      I think the reasoning used for toilets should also apply to equipment
>>      such as a changing_table: if it is totally private, such as the
>>      changing
>>      table in your home bathroom, it is not necessary to add in osm.
>>
>>
>> Some people may feel uncomfortable changing their baby in public view.
> access=* don't said anything about public view.
> changing tables in a private area does not mean that your child
> is protected from a public view (I know a changing table in
> the private part of the maternity just in front of a windows
> with a public corridor)
> a changing table in a public toilet can be in a room that
> is respectful of privacy.
> if you want to inform this kind of info, it's probably better
> to make another proposal for another key in stead of promoting
> to hijack the access key to talk about public view when using
> the feature.

There are a few toilets with very nice views...

>
>>      changing_table:location=dedicated_room
>>      if the purpose is to change the key diaper=room to diaper=yes +
>>      location=dedicated_room I think this value is an too precise
>>      assumption
>> If you never encountered a changing table in a dedicated room
>> then don't map it as such.
> that's not what I said.
> what I'm saying is : diaper=room doesn't have the same meaning
> as changing_table:location=dedicated_room
> if the proposal wants to change one by the other, that's not true.
> so at least changing_table:location=room is needed to be able to
> convert existing information without making any erroneous assumption.
> Of course, i didn't disagree to use dedicated_room when it's
> a dedicated_room :)
>
> Regards,
> Marc
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging



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