Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

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Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Cédric Mélac
Defintion: A large site with many silos and barns which concentrates crops from farms around before selling at best prices.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Richard Welty-2
On 4/5/19 11:19 AM, Cédric Mélac wrote:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Grain_Storage_Centre
> Defintion: A large site with many silos and barns which concentrates
> crops from farms around before selling at best prices.

these are commonly called Elevators in the US. i don't know what british
usage is.

note that there are also bin sites, which don't have the market/sales
aspect but are places where bins may be found, sometimes in large
number, for storage.

in the US, elevators may be straight up commercial, or may be coops.
don't know if that is worth capturing or not.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Cédric Mélac
Yes, this is exactly that ! I didn't know how it was called in English.
Thank you a lot for your fast answer ! I think I should change the tag name for "industrial=grain_elevator" according to the English Wikipedia page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_elevator


De : Richard Welty <[hidden email]>
Envoyé : vendredi 5 avril 2019 15:29
À : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre
 
On 4/5/19 11:19 AM, Cédric Mélac wrote:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Grain_Storage_Centre
> Defintion: A large site with many silos and barns which concentrates
> crops from farms around before selling at best prices.

these are commonly called Elevators in the US. i don't know what british
usage is.

note that there are also bin sites, which don't have the market/sales
aspect but are places where bins may be found, sometimes in large
number, for storage.

in the US, elevators may be straight up commercial, or may be coops.
don't know if that is worth capturing or not.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Paul Allen
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 at 16:51, Cédric Mélac <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, this is exactly that ! I didn't know how it was called in English.
Thank you a lot for your fast answer ! I think I should change the tag name for "industrial=grain_elevator" according to the English Wikipedia page :

What is meant by "grain elevator" depends which flavour of English you speak, according to
that Wikipedia page.

In Australia, it is just the lifting mechanism and tower containing it, whilst the individual
grain containers are silos or wheat bins or receival points.  In Canada it can be a place where
grain is sold into the global distribution system.  In the US it can mean the lifting mechanism
or the whole storage facility consisting of many silos.  I can't find what it means in British
English.  However, OSM generally uses British English.

I'd suggest industrial=grain_storage (no need for the centre) as being unambiguous in most
dialects of English.  Unless somebody knows what these things are called in the UK.  But
a quick google search seems to show that "grain storage" is used by some of them.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Richard Welty-2
On Friday, 5 April 2019, Richard Welty wrote:
> On 4/5/19 11:19 AM, Cédric Mélac wrote:
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Grain_Storage_Centre
> > Defintion: A large site with many silos and barns which concentrates
> > crops from farms around before selling at best prices.
>
> these are commonly called Elevators in the US. i don't know what british
> usage is.

British usage is silo.

They are in my experience, I live in a rural area, found on individual farms rather than in any facility. Farms will tend to store grain themselves.

Farming around here, certainly arable, is on an industrial scale. I imagine these are associated with  co-operatives and relatively small farms.

But to be sure next time I have a pint with a farmer I will ask the question.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 18:12 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen <[hidden email]>:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 at 16:51, Cédric Mélac <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd suggest industrial=grain_storage (no need for the centre) as being unambiguous in most
dialects of English.  Unless somebody knows what these things are called in the UK.  But
a quick google search seems to show that "grain storage" is used by some of them.


I believe the key "industrial" is mainly used for the subtype of industrial landuse. From the description I got the impression this tag would be about a feature, i.e. it would be better in a feature key, for example "man_made".

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Mark Wagner
In reply to this post by Philip Barnes
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 16:38:56 +0000
Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Friday, 5 April 2019, Richard Welty wrote:
> > On 4/5/19 11:19 AM, Cédric Mélac wrote:  
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Grain_Storage_Centre
> > > Defintion: A large site with many silos and barns which
> > > concentrates crops from farms around before selling at best
> > > prices.  
> >
> > these are commonly called Elevators in the US. i don't know what
> > british usage is.  
>
> British usage is silo.
>
> They are in my experience, I live in a rural area, found on
> individual farms rather than in any facility. Farms will tend to
> store grain themselves.
>
> Farming around here, certainly arable, is on an industrial scale. I
> imagine these are associated with  co-operatives and relatively small
> farms.
>

American English grain elevator:
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.7591426,-118.5290499,3a,74.6y,153.92h,101.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSQUMNc9VimuAS_gMyyJmog!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

American English silo (a small one, and probably not used for storing
grain. Places that have standalone silos tend not to be places that
have Google StreetView):
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.0046952,-117.3503996,3a,28.2y,217.27h,89.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sthnyTWcsvnaxCW6uM7Xe_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

marc marc
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
Le 05.04.19 à 18:42, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit :
> I believe the key "industrial" is mainly used for the subtype of
> industrial landuse. From the description I got the impression this tag
> would be about a feature, i.e. it would be better in a feature key, for
> example "man_made".

trading and storage is an industrial activity ?
imho it's a tertiary activity.

as stated on the french-speaking forum, there is also confusion about
what the tag describes. landuse only describes the use of the land. if
the purpose is to inform the offices or store of a grain trader, it is
rather the office or shop tags that are appropriate. the shop is
sometime separated from the storage place.
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Warin
In reply to this post by Philip Barnes
On 06/04/19 03:38, Philip Barnes wrote:

> On Friday, 5 April 2019, Richard Welty wrote:
>> On 4/5/19 11:19 AM, Cédric Mélac wrote:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Grain_Storage_Centre
>>> Defintion: A large site with many silos and barns which concentrates
>>> crops from farms around before selling at best prices.
>> these are commonly called Elevators in the US. i don't know what british
>> usage is.
> British usage is silo.
>
> They are in my experience, I live in a rural area, found on individual farms rather than in any facility. Farms will tend to store grain themselves.
>
> Farming around here, certainly arable, is on an industrial scale. I imagine these are associated with  co-operatives and relatively small farms.
>
> But to be sure next time I have a pint with a farmer I will ask the question.
>
For me the 'elevator' is only the mechanism that raises the grain to a height were it is feed into the silo.
The commercial sites in Australia have a weigh bridge and incoming grain is assessed for moisture and contaminates before being accepted ..
if too moist it is refused.. if it is close they go park in the sun to dry for a few hours...
the weigh bridge is used to asses the amount of grain. So there is more than an elevator/silos ...
The big ones are off farm usually located on a train line for transport.
A recent development is painting the outside of the silos...
https://www.visitvictoria.com/regions/grampians/things-to-do/art-theatre-and-culture/silo-art-trail

The whole area ? .. well landuse is what I'd use. lauduse=agricultural?


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Paul Allen
On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 at 00:14, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

The whole area ? .. well landuse is what I'd use. lauduse=agricultural?

I'd say landuse=agricultural applies strictly to farms.  Growing crops, raising animals,
that sort of thing.  A grain storage facility is stretching things a lot.  If you go with that
then you could call a business selling tractors landuse=agricultural.

Having thought about it, a case could be made for landuse=depot + depot=grain_storage
or something along those lines.  That's stretching things too, since the wiki definition is
very slanted towards vehicles, but English usage of depot means a storage facility of
any kind.  The wiki mentions that landuse=depot can be used for warehouses, and
silos are just special types of warehouse (if you squint when you look at them).

Or maybe just landuse=commercial, since the place exists for the purpose of buying and
selling grain, storage is just a side-effect of doing that.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 at 09:58, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Having thought about it, a case could be made for landuse=depot + depot=grain_storage

That's not a bad thought
 
Or maybe just landuse=commercial, since the place exists for the purpose of buying and
selling grain, storage is just a side-effect of doing that.

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think so, as there's no money changing hands on site, they're just tallying up to say x number of tons received

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Grain Storage Centre

Warin
On 06/04/19 16:36, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 at 09:58, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Having thought about it, a case could be made for landuse=depot + depot=grain_storage

That's not a bad thought
 
Or maybe just landuse=commercial, since the place exists for the purpose of buying and
selling grain, storage is just a side-effect of doing that.

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think so, as there's no money changing hands on site, they're just tallying up to say x number of tons received


Buying and selling these days may not see 'money' change hands .. all done through the banks.
In Africa most people pay using their phones - no 'money', even the 'poor' use cell phones as they prevent theft of 'money'. The cell phones are cheap.

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