Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

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Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
amenity=motorcycle_taxi:

"A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dmotorcycle_taxi

In many countries, motorcycles for hire are much more common than
automobile taxis.

In these places, motorcycle drivers wait at stands, often with a small
shelter, and they can be hired to take one or more passengers to
various destinations. A fare is paid for a one-way trip. The passenger
usually rides behind the driver. In some countries two or even three
passengers can be carried on one motorcycle "taxi".

Motorcycle taxis are also known as "motos" or "bike taxi", or by other
local names, such as "ojek" here in Indonesia and in Singapore,
"boda-boda" in Uganda, and "okada" in Nigeria.

While some have proposed using amenity=taxi plus additional tags for
motorcycle taxi stands, this is quite confusing for travelers who
generally expect a "taxi" to be 4-wheeled motorcar capable of carrying
4 people and luggage. So a different tag is proposed to avoid
confusion and more precisely tag these features.

- Joseph Eisenberg

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Daniel Koć
W dniu 20.02.2020 o 08:48, Joseph Eisenberg pisze:
> I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
> amenity=motorcycle_taxi:
>
> "A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dmotorcycle_taxi


I propose to use more precise key "public_transport" for this kind of
objects.


--
"Rzeczy się psują – zęby, spłuczki, kompy, związki, pralki" [Bisz]


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

voschix
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
Do we have any idea how many amenity=taxi already in OSM are in fact toctocs or similar?
I suspect that this number is huge, and introducing a new tag for them will only create confusion, as we have no way of migrating the toktoks tagged as taxies to the new key.

Volker


On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 at 08:50, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
amenity=motorcycle_taxi:

"A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

dieterdreist


Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 10:23 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt <[hidden email]>:
Do we have any idea how many amenity=taxi already in OSM are in fact toctocs or similar?
I suspect that this number is huge, and introducing a new tag for them will only create confusion, as we have no way of migrating the toktoks tagged as taxies to the new key.


until someone decided to discourage it, the wiki stated to use amenity=taxi with motorcycle=yes, motorcar=no for motorbike based taxi stands.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
This new tag is meant for motorcycles (2 wheeled vehicles), not
3-wheel tuk-tuks and similar vehicles, which are enclosed and provide
a separate seating are for passengers. They are more similar to
4-wheel motorcar taxis than to motorcycles.

Yes, some places (like the Phillipines) have suggested using
amenity=taxi for motorcycles, 3-wheeled bicycles, 3-wheeled motor
vehicles etc, so that they will be rendered, but I believe this is
misusing the term "taxi", which is widely understood to refer to a
motorcar taxi in most countries and languages.

That would be similar to using highway=bus_stop for taxis by arguing
that they are both publically available forms of passenger
transportation, even though a bus runs on a fixed schedule and route
and carries many different people, while a taxi is hired privately and
goes directly to your destination.

- Joseph Eisenberg



On 2/20/20, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 10:23 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt
> <[hidden email]
>>:
>
>> Do we have any idea how many amenity=taxi already in OSM are in fact
>> toctocs or similar?
>> I suspect that this number is huge, and introducing a new tag for them
>> will only create confusion, as we have no way of migrating the toktoks
>> tagged as taxies to the new key.
>>
>
>
> until someone decided to discourage it, the wiki stated to use amenity=taxi
> with motorcycle=yes, motorcar=no for motorbike based taxi stands.
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
> use amenity=taxi with motorcycle=yes, motorcar=no for motorbike based taxi stands.

That combination has only been used 145 times, in spite of being
including in the Phillipines tagging guidelines and previously on
Tag:amenity=taxi: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QTu

There are more places with name="Pangkalan Ojek" + name="Motorcycle
Taxi" + name="Boda-Boda*" and similar improper uses of the name tag to
describe an Ojek/Boda-Boda/Motorcycle Taxi stand.

This is a very common feature in Southeast Asia, Africa and parts of
central and south America: there are hundreds of thousands of them.

Can't we have an easy to use top-level feature tag, instead of having
to add 3 tags like amenity=taxi + motorcar=no + motorcycle=yes to
define one very common, unique feature?

- Joseph

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Marc M.
Le 20.02.20 à 12:45, Joseph Eisenberg a écrit :
> Can't we have an easy to use top-level feature tag, instead of having
> to add 3 tags like amenity=taxi + motorcar=no + motorcycle=yes to
> define one very common, unique feature?

did we need to have a top-level feature for every "unique" combination
of the same service ?
if yes, we need a lot of them
amenity=foot_taxi
amenity=moto_taxi
amenity=sidecar_taxi
amenity=taxi_low_local_pollution
amenity=taxi_powered_by_renewable_energy etc.
but all of these are part of the same type of service,
regardless of the number of wheels and the driving force.
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 12:47 Uhr schrieb Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]>:
This is a very common feature in Southeast Asia, Africa and parts of
central and south America: there are hundreds of thousands of them.

Can't we have an easy to use top-level feature tag, instead of having
to add 3 tags like amenity=taxi + motorcar=no + motorcycle=yes to
define one very common, unique feature?


It seems you are the only person discussing here who has actual on the ground knowledge with this kind of service. They do not exist here (there are horse drawn carriages here, but they are kind of a tourist attraction and not considered taxis or generally, public transport, and while in Berlin bicycle based rickshaws are not uncommon, they are also not seen as public transport, nor as taxis (I guess), but rather as some kind of tourist attraction more similar to the horse drawn carriages).

FWIW, if you believe they should get their own main tag, because tagging them as (subtype of) taxis would be a misrepresentation and not lead to useful user experience, I would be fine with a new main tag, provided there is no significant opposition from other mappers who are familiar with them.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
In reply to this post by Marc M.
Not all of these actually are in real-world use.

The only 4 options in common use today are:

1) motorcar, 4 wheels, enclosed (amenity=taxi)
2) motorcycle, 2 wheels, open (amenity=motorcycle_taxi)
3) pedicabs / 3-wheel tricycles (amenity=pedicab?) - non-motorized
4) autorickshaws, 3 wheels, enclosed (could be amenity=taxi or perhaps
amenity=autorickshaw - but these are not common where I live, though I
know they are common in Thailand, India and some other countries).

There used to be human-pulled rickshaws, but these no longer exist.
They were take over by pedicabs / aka bicycle rickshaws, since those
are much more efficient.

I will consider proposing the other 2 tags later, but motorcyle taxis
are by far the most common. I would bet there are more "ojek" stands
in Indonesia than taxi stands in all of Europe.

- Joseph Eisenberg

On 2/20/20, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 20.02.20 à 12:45, Joseph Eisenberg a écrit :
>> Can't we have an easy to use top-level feature tag, instead of having
>> to add 3 tags like amenity=taxi + motorcar=no + motorcycle=yes to
>> define one very common, unique feature?
>
> did we need to have a top-level feature for every "unique" combination
> of the same service ?
> if yes, we need a lot of them
> amenity=foot_taxi
> amenity=moto_taxi
> amenity=sidecar_taxi
> amenity=taxi_low_local_pollution
> amenity=taxi_powered_by_renewable_energy etc.
> but all of these are part of the same type of service,
> regardless of the number of wheels and the driving force.
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Eugene Alvin Villar
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
As a person from the Philippines who uses these "motorcycle taxis" (we call them tricycles here and they are basically motorcycles with an attached sidecar for passengers), I am in favor of having a new top-level tag for these "taxi" stations. The reason why we used "taxi" here is that this was the closest comparable equivalent tag for such public transport amenities.

However, I would prefer a value that is something else than "motorcycle_taxi" and that is because in some other areas, instead of motorcycles, they use (pedaled) bicycles instead. These are called pedicabs (but in other parts of the country, tricycles may be called pedicabs as well) and are effectively equivalent to the traditional motorcycle tricycles as a form of public transportation. The only difference is one is human-powered while the other is engine-powered.

Furthermore, we actually have "real" motorcycle-based ride-hailing taxi services here (one such service is called Angkas: https://angkas.com/ ) and I think using "motorcycle_taxi" as a tag value would be confusing.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 3:50 PM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
amenity=motorcycle_taxi:

"A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dmotorcycle_taxi

In many countries, motorcycles for hire are much more common than
automobile taxis.

In these places, motorcycle drivers wait at stands, often with a small
shelter, and they can be hired to take one or more passengers to
various destinations. A fare is paid for a one-way trip. The passenger
usually rides behind the driver. In some countries two or even three
passengers can be carried on one motorcycle "taxi".

Motorcycle taxis are also known as "motos" or "bike taxi", or by other
local names, such as "ojek" here in Indonesia and in Singapore,
"boda-boda" in Uganda, and "okada" in Nigeria.

While some have proposed using amenity=taxi plus additional tags for
motorcycle taxi stands, this is quite confusing for travelers who
generally expect a "taxi" to be 4-wheeled motorcar capable of carrying
4 people and luggage. So a different tag is proposed to avoid
confusion and more precisely tag these features.

- Joseph Eisenberg

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

dieterdreist


Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 13:21 Uhr schrieb Eugene Alvin Villar <[hidden email]>:
The only difference is one is human-powered while the other is engine-powered.


IMHO, if we distinguish automobile taxis from motorcycle taxis, we should also distinguish both from human powered vehicles. They may all fulfill similar necessities, but from this "only difference" there are following many consequences (speed, noise, range, etc.) so it would definitely be worth make a distinction.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
In reply to this post by Eugene Alvin Villar
> they use (pedaled) bicycles instead. These are called pedicabs...

Yes, Indonesia has many of these too: we call them "becak," passengers
sit up front on a bench, unlike in India bicycle rickshaws.

There are even "bemo" which are motorized tricycles, where the bicycle
part (in the back) has been replaced with half a motorcycle, which I
suppose are more similar to your motorcycle+sidecar ride hailing
services.

My plan was to propose "amenity=pedicab" for locations where you can
hire a pedal-powered (or electric) tricycle "pedicabs" or "bicycle
rickshaws", but I have not gotten around to writing up that proposal
yet.

> I think using "motorcycle_taxi" as a tag value would be confusing.

Unfortunately, the English language terminology for these things is
not very established, since they are not used in Britain or North
America (except for the tourist pedicabs as mentioned), which makes it
harder to pick a good tag value which will work everywhere.

Are you aware of any alternative phrase or word which would be clearer?

- Joseph Eisenberg

On 2/20/20, Eugene Alvin Villar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As a person from the Philippines who uses these "motorcycle taxis" (we call
> them tricycles here and they are basically motorcycles with an attached
> sidecar for passengers), I am in favor of having a new top-level tag for
> these "taxi" stations. The reason why we used "taxi" here is that this was
> the closest comparable equivalent tag for such public transport amenities.
>
> However, I would prefer a value that is something else than
> "motorcycle_taxi" and that is because in some other areas, instead of
> motorcycles, they use (pedaled) bicycles instead. These are called pedicabs
> (but in other parts of the country, tricycles may be called pedicabs as
> well) and are effectively equivalent to the traditional motorcycle
> tricycles as a form of public transportation. The only difference is one is
> human-powered while the other is engine-powered.
>
> Furthermore, we actually have "real" motorcycle-based ride-hailing taxi
> services here (one such service is called Angkas: https://angkas.com/ ) and
> I think using "motorcycle_taxi" as a tag value would be confusing.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 3:50 PM Joseph Eisenberg
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
>> amenity=motorcycle_taxi:
>>
>> "A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"
>>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dmotorcycle_taxi
>>
>> In many countries, motorcycles for hire are much more common than
>> automobile taxis.
>>
>> In these places, motorcycle drivers wait at stands, often with a small
>> shelter, and they can be hired to take one or more passengers to
>> various destinations. A fare is paid for a one-way trip. The passenger
>> usually rides behind the driver. In some countries two or even three
>> passengers can be carried on one motorcycle "taxi".
>>
>> Motorcycle taxis are also known as "motos" or "bike taxi", or by other
>> local names, such as "ojek" here in Indonesia and in Singapore,
>> "boda-boda" in Uganda, and "okada" in Nigeria.
>>
>> While some have proposed using amenity=taxi plus additional tags for
>> motorcycle taxi stands, this is quite confusing for travelers who
>> generally expect a "taxi" to be 4-wheeled motorcar capable of carrying
>> 4 people and luggage. So a different tag is proposed to avoid
>> confusion and more precisely tag these features.
>>
>> - Joseph Eisenberg
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Eugene Alvin Villar
In reply to this post by dieterdreist


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 8:28 PM Martin Koppenhoefer, <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 13:21 Uhr schrieb Eugene Alvin Villar <[hidden email]>:
The only difference is one is human-powered while the other is engine-powered.


IMHO, if we distinguish automobile taxis from motorcycle taxis, we should also distinguish both from human powered vehicles. They may all fulfill similar necessities, but from this "only difference" there are following many consequences (speed, noise, range, etc.) so it would definitely be worth make a distinction.

Just to clarify, these public transport services are either exclusively using motorcycles or exclusively using bicycles in a particular locale. As a commuting passenger, you generally have no choice whether you want the bicycles instead of motorcycles or vice versa. So the difference (human vs. engine) is a pedantic difference instead of a practical difference. That said, it is perfectly fine to use different secondary tags or subtags to differentiate between the two, just not have different top-level tags.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Eugene Alvin Villar
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 8:32 PM Joseph Eisenberg, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think using "motorcycle_taxi" as a tag value would be confusing.

Unfortunately, the English language terminology for these things is
not very established, since they are not used in Britain or North
America (except for the tourist pedicabs as mentioned), which makes it
harder to pick a good tag value which will work everywhere.

Are you aware of any alternative phrase or word which would be clearer?

Well, in Philippine English (English is an official language in the Philippines), the standard English term is "tricycle" as can be seen in everyday usage and in laws that regulate these forms of public transportation. Unfortunately, I know that "tricycle" is ambiguous if you look at global English usage so I have no real good alternative.


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
In reply to this post by Eugene Alvin Villar
Oh, here in Indonesia you can find motorcycle taxis (ojek) everywhere,
including in all the towns where bicycle rickshaws / pedicabs operate.

For example, all of the markets in my town have a pangkalan ojek
(motorcycle taxi stand) and a separate pangkalan becak (pedicab
stand), usually near the main entrance.

I prefer the pedicabs when I have luggage, since there is a nice wide
bench which can carry more cargo than can fit on a motorcycle, and
they are quiet and slower. But the motorcycles are faster, so if you
are in a hurry or have a long trip, they are the better choice.

On 2/20/20, Eugene Alvin Villar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 8:28 PM Martin Koppenhoefer, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 13:21 Uhr schrieb Eugene Alvin Villar <
>> [hidden email]>:
>>
>>> The only difference is one is human-powered while the other is
>>> engine-powered.
>>>
>>
>>
>> IMHO, if we distinguish automobile taxis from motorcycle taxis, we should
>> also distinguish both from human powered vehicles. They may all fulfill
>> similar necessities, but from this "only difference" there are following
>> many consequences (speed, noise, range, etc.) so it would definitely be
>> worth make a distinction.
>>
>
> Just to clarify, these public transport services are either exclusively
> using motorcycles or exclusively using bicycles in a particular locale. As
> a commuting passenger, you generally have no choice whether you want the
> bicycles instead of motorcycles or vice versa. So the difference (human vs.
> engine) is a pedantic difference instead of a practical difference. That
> said, it is perfectly fine to use different secondary tags or subtags to
> differentiate between the two, just not have different top-level tags.
>
>>
>

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Jarek Piórkowski
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 at 02:49, Joseph Eisenberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
> amenity=motorcycle_taxi:
>
> "A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"
> ...
> While some have proposed using amenity=taxi plus additional tags for
> motorcycle taxi stands, this is quite confusing for travelers who
> generally expect a "taxi" to be 4-wheeled motorcar capable of carrying
> 4 people and luggage. So a different tag is proposed to avoid
> confusion and more precisely tag these features.

We could credit travellers with some knowledge of local norms, and use
secondary tags to clarify when necessary.

As a Canadian, a restaurant will always give free tap water if I am a
dining there. When I travel in Europe, that's not necessarily the
case. Should I suggest a tag amenity=restaurant_with_paid_water?

Similarly I would not expect people to suggest a
highway=secondary_but_extremely_bicycle_unfriendly tag for when they
visit Canada and are used to western European norms of what
highway=secondary looks like. Some of the differences can be tagged
with secondary tags, like cycleway=no, maxspeed, width, lanes...

Ideas of what constitutes a bus station, a train halt, a doctor's
office, toilets, supermarkets, etc will similarly also differ
worldwide.

--Jarek

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Eugene Alvin Villar
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 9:13 PM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oh, here in Indonesia you can find motorcycle taxis (ojek) everywhere,
including in all the towns where bicycle rickshaws / pedicabs operate.

For example, all of the markets in my town have a pangkalan ojek
(motorcycle taxi stand) and a separate pangkalan becak (pedicab
stand), usually near the main entrance.

I prefer the pedicabs when I have luggage, since there is a nice wide
bench which can carry more cargo than can fit on a motorcycle, and
they are quiet and slower. But the motorcycles are faster, so if you
are in a hurry or have a long trip, they are the better choice.

Hmmm. It seems that your ojeks are a different sort of public transportation to our tricycles/pedicabs in the Philippines. If I understand your description correctly, ojeks seem to be like regular 4-wheeled taxis in many respects except for the use of motorcycles, but in the Philippines, tricycles/pedicabs are never used for long-distance travel and are usually used for the "last-mile" travel typically to get to a particular house from a main highway (or to get from the house to the highway). These tricycles/pedicabs usually have "service areas" (often a gated subdivision, or a village, or a close cluster of hamlets) and they only provide transportation within that area and cannot bring you anywhere unlike regular taxis.


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Florimond Berthoux
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
Hi,

I'm always suspicious about tags with underscore in it, because they often mix different features together.
My examples are parking, bicycle_parking, motorcycle_parking. In Paris there are parking shared between bicycle and motorcycle, and parking shared between bicycle and dock less vehicles (scooters).
Creating a new key for each combination would be awful.

So I prefer to split the amenity "you can pay someone there to have a ride" and what kind of vehicles you can find there.
That could looks like this:
amenity=taxi
taxi:motorcycle=yes
taxi:car=yes
taxi:tricycle=yes
...

(or other more British words ;)


Le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 à 08:50, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> a écrit :
I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
amenity=motorcycle_taxi:

"A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dmotorcycle_taxi

In many countries, motorcycles for hire are much more common than
automobile taxis.

In these places, motorcycle drivers wait at stands, often with a small
shelter, and they can be hired to take one or more passengers to
various destinations. A fare is paid for a one-way trip. The passenger
usually rides behind the driver. In some countries two or even three
passengers can be carried on one motorcycle "taxi".

Motorcycle taxis are also known as "motos" or "bike taxi", or by other
local names, such as "ojek" here in Indonesia and in Singapore,
"boda-boda" in Uganda, and "okada" in Nigeria.

While some have proposed using amenity=taxi plus additional tags for
motorcycle taxi stands, this is quite confusing for travelers who
generally expect a "taxi" to be 4-wheeled motorcar capable of carrying
4 people and luggage. So a different tag is proposed to avoid
confusion and more precisely tag these features.

- Joseph Eisenberg

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--
Florimond Berthoux

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
>  In Paris there are parking shared between bicycle and motorcycle, and parking shared between bicycle and dock less vehicles (scooters).

Unlike parking spaces, a motorcycle taxi stand is never shared between
motorcycles and cabs or tricycles here in Indonesia, since each type
of vehicle has different characteristics: speed, capacity, distance
that can be traveled. The markets and the prices are different.

Often a market or train station will have 3 stands for 3 types of
hired vehicles (motorcycles, taxicabs, and pedicabs/tricycles), with
each at a separate corner, or on different sides of the street.

> amenity=taxi
> taxi:motorcycle=yes
> taxi:car=yes
> taxi:tricycle=yes

This is discussed in the proposal page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dmotorcycle_taxi#Why_not_use_amenity.3Dtaxi.3F

While some have proposed using {{tag|amenity|taxi}} plus the
additional tags {{tag|motorcar|no}} + {{tag|motorcycle|yes}} for
motorcycle taxi stands, this has several disadvanages:
1) It would imply that a taxicab and a hired motorcyle "ojek" are the
same feature.
2) it requires using 3 tags instead of one.
3) If only amenity=taxi is tagged, it would now become ambiguous: is
this actually a taxicab stand, or might it be a motorcycle stand which
is missing a tag?
4) It will confusing for travelers who generally expect a "taxicab" to
be 4-wheeled motorcar capable of carrying at least 4 passengers and
their luggage. This is quite different than a motorcycle which can
only carry one passenger with a small amount of baggage.
5) Many database users currently interpret {{tag|amenity|taxi}} as a
motorcar taxicab via use of a standard "taxi" icon such as
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Taxi_Icon.png - this would be
broken by such a change.
6) Motorcyles have different abilities: In contrast to a family or
group which needs a 4 to 6 seat taxicab, single travelers may strongly
prefer to hire motorcycles when available, due to their lower cost and
ability to fit through smaller spaces in congested cities and rural
areas with narrow roads and paths. Motorcar taxicabs with 4 wheels in
2 tracks cannot access {{tag|highway|path}} features and narrow roads,
but motorcycles may be permitted and feasible due to their narrow
width and single track.

So a different tag is proposed to avoid confusion and more precisely
tag these features.



On 2/21/20, Florimond Berthoux <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm always suspicious about tags with underscore in it, because they often
> mix different features together.
> My examples are parking, bicycle_parking, motorcycle_parking. In Paris
> there are parking shared between bicycle and motorcycle, and parking shared
> between bicycle and dock less vehicles (scooters).
> Creating a new key for each combination would be awful.
>
> So I prefer to split the amenity "you can pay someone there to have a ride"
> and what kind of vehicles you can find there.
> That could looks like this:
> amenity=taxi
> taxi:motorcycle=yes
> taxi:car=yes
> taxi:tricycle=yes
> ...
>
> (or other more British words ;)
>
>
> Le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 à 08:50, Joseph Eisenberg
> <[hidden email]>
> a écrit :
>
>> I would like to formally request comments on the proposal for
>> amenity=motorcycle_taxi:
>>
>> "A place where motorcycle taxis wait for passengers"
>>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dmotorcycle_taxi
>>
>> In many countries, motorcycles for hire are much more common than
>> automobile taxis.
>>
>> In these places, motorcycle drivers wait at stands, often with a small
>> shelter, and they can be hired to take one or more passengers to
>> various destinations. A fare is paid for a one-way trip. The passenger
>> usually rides behind the driver. In some countries two or even three
>> passengers can be carried on one motorcycle "taxi".
>>
>> Motorcycle taxis are also known as "motos" or "bike taxi", or by other
>> local names, such as "ojek" here in Indonesia and in Singapore,
>> "boda-boda" in Uganda, and "okada" in Nigeria.
>>
>> While some have proposed using amenity=taxi plus additional tags for
>> motorcycle taxi stands, this is quite confusing for travelers who
>> generally expect a "taxi" to be 4-wheeled motorcar capable of carrying
>> 4 people and luggage. So a different tag is proposed to avoid
>> confusion and more precisely tag these features.
>>
>> - Joseph Eisenberg
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
>
> --
> Florimond Berthoux
>

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi

Joseph Eisenberg
In reply to this post by Eugene Alvin Villar
On 2/21/20, Eugene Alvin Villar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  in the Philippines, tricycles/pedicabs are never used for long-distance travel
> and are usually used for the "last-mile" travel typically to get to a
> particular house from a main highway (or to get from the house to the
> highway). These tricycles/pedicabs usually have "service areas" (often a
> gated subdivision, or a village, or a close cluster of hamlets) and they
> only provide transportation within that area and cannot bring you anywhere
> unlike regular taxis.

Ojek (motorcycle taxis) in Indonesia are mostly used for the last
kilometer trips from major highways into neighborhoods, as you
mention, especially in towns and cities where there are minibuses
along major roads. But you may hire them to take you across town, if
you can afford paying a few dollars more than the bus fare and are in
a hurry. (Hopefully it won't rain).

In remote areas, where there are no public buses, it is possible to
hire an ojek for a 10 or 20 kilometer ride up to a village. Sometimes
the road is more of a path, only passable by 2-wheeled vehicles, so a
taxicab would not be possible.

- Joseph Eisenberg

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