Feature Proposal - RFC - Telecom local networks

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Feature Proposal - RFC - Telecom local networks

François Lacombe-2
Hi

The telecom networks proposal is currently in RFC and all issues or questions have been solved.

The vote is about to begin shortly, by the end of the week.
The tagging has been in use in France for last months, no big issue rose and dozen of telecom exchange have been mapped.

Feel free to make any comment.

All the best
François

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Telecom local networks

Paul Allen
On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 11:05 PM François Lacombe <[hidden email]> wrote:
Feel free to make any comment.

I thought you'd agreed that "Central Office" was left-pond terminology and, since OSM is
based on right-pond terminology, you'd use "Exchange" instead.  There are several places in
the proposal (including a heading) that refer to "Central Office."

I'm also baffled by "A central office is a building, a part of a building or in some countries a street cabinet which connect a subscriber's home with the service provider devices."  I don't think of a street cabinet
near subscribers full of DSLAMS as being central or an office, nor is it an exchange.  It's a street
cabinet acting as a distribution hub.  Please do not try to force every small collection of equipment
into the "Central Office"/"Exchange" model.  Otherwise you'll end up having to map fibre optic
repeaters as central offices or exchanges.  I think it's down to bad editing, but maybe you do
want to think of street cabinets as central offices (I don't).

--
Paul


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Telecom local networks

François Lacombe-2
Hi Paul,

Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 à 00:31, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> a écrit :
I thought you'd agreed that "Central Office" was left-pond terminology and, since OSM is
based on right-pond terminology, you'd use "Exchange" instead.  There are several places in
the proposal (including a heading) that refer to "Central Office."

That's right, and the proposal has been updated to use the proper terminology. Thanks.
 
I'm also baffled by "A central office is a building, a part of a building or in some countries a street cabinet which connect a subscriber's home with the service provider devices."  I don't think of a street cabinet
near subscribers full of DSLAMS as being central or an office, nor is it an exchange.  It's a street
cabinet acting as a distribution hub.
It depends.
We can find the two possibilities and I don't write that all telecom cabinets are actual telephone exchanges.

hosts DSLAM, switches and WDM and is definitely an actual telephone exchange in a street cabinet.
It's sometimes directly written on them: In France, NRA = Noeud de Raccordement Abonnés = Subscribers connection node = Telephone exchange.

is a more simpler outdoor dslam *linked* to an actual and remote telephone exchange.
Then it's not a telecom exchange but a local loop component (distribution hub, why not)
 
Please do not try to force every small collection of equipment
into the "Central Office"/"Exchange" model.
That's not my point nor my intention: I introduce telecom=service_device for standalone dslams which are not in a proper telephone exchange.

Tagging proposal are here to provide consistent terminology to cover as many cases as we can encounter on field.
Finding telecom networks data may be hard and this proposal is followed by long term work to encourage telecom operators to open their network documentation.
Open data will be required to complete the map.

All the best

François


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Telecom local networks

Graeme Fitzpatrick
Massive job, thanks Francois! :-)

Question for you pleasse.

Following on from the discussion re towers & masts, I've just mapped a couple of mobile phone towers.

What should we call the base station hut / building usually adjacent to the base of the tower

My understanding is they're not a street cabinet as you can walk inside them.

So"
building=hut

telecom=???

communication=mobile_phone???

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Telecom local networks

Lionel Giard
In this proposal we use "telecom" key, but i would like to know what is the limit/definition of this key ? Does it englobe internet provider, tv provider and mobile provider (even if the company does only one of them which is rarer today) ? Or only some of those ? 

My question come from the wiki page about street_cabinet (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet#Street_cabinet_categories ) where the values of "street_cabinet" tag can be "telecom" and "cable_tv" as two different values. Would it be preferable to merge them into "telecom" ? As to me telecom means "telecomunication" which englobe TV, internet and mobile. 

Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 à 01:09, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> a écrit :
Massive job, thanks Francois! :-)

Question for you pleasse.

Following on from the discussion re towers & masts, I've just mapped a couple of mobile phone towers.

What should we call the base station hut / building usually adjacent to the base of the tower

My understanding is they're not a street cabinet as you can walk inside them.

So"
building=hut

telecom=???

communication=mobile_phone???

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Telecom local networks

François Lacombe-2
Hi,

Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 à 01:09, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> a écrit :
Massive job, thanks Francois! :-)

Question for you pleasse.

You're welcome
 
Following on from the discussion re towers & masts, I've just mapped a couple of mobile phone towers.

What should we call the base station hut / building usually adjacent to the base of the tower

My understanding is they're not a street cabinet as you can walk inside them.

That's right it's a building and not a street_cabinet.
Except building=service, I won't add anything else for now.

The proposal only regards local loop fixed landlines, other document will be needed to deal with mobile networks.
For me, communication:*, telecommunication=* should finally be converted to telecom=* for physical paths and devices.

Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 à 12:51, Lionel Giard <[hidden email]> a écrit :
In this proposal we use "telecom" key, but i would like to know what is the limit/definition of this key ? Does it englobe internet provider, tv provider and mobile provider (even if the company does only one of them which is rarer today) ? Or only some of those ?

telecom=* is proposed as follow :
"It is proposed to use telecom=* key to map telecom copper, fibre and coaxial local loops networks."
It doesn't cover services or logical functionalities yet but only static physical infrastructure of networks (if Virgin uses AT&T network to provide a service, then operator=AT&T and not operator=Virgin)
 
My question come from the wiki page about street_cabinet (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet#Street_cabinet_categories ) where the values of "street_cabinet" tag can be "telecom" and "cable_tv" as two different values. Would it be preferable to merge them into "telecom" ? As to me telecom means "telecomunication" which englobe TV, internet and mobile.

That may be true, but out of the scope of the proposal.
street_cabinet=cable_tv may sound inconsistent since tv is a service provided on top of coaxial infrastructure (I didn't have the same point of view back in 2014). Especially when Internet is also provided over the same coaxial network.
Then, it's equivalent to map :
man_made=street_cabinet + street_cabinet=cable_tv + telecom=connection_point + telecom:medium=coax
man_made=street_cabinet + street_cabinet=telecom + telecom=connection_point + telecom:medium=coax

I'll try to add such example in the proposal.
Replacing street_cabinet=cable_tv by street_cabinet=telecom + telecom:medium=coax isn't such a big deal and can be discussed here without requiring a proper proposal with vote.

All the best

François

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