Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

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Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

Stefano Maffulli
hello folks, first RFC here!

Proposal to add a tag to map "A device put on public land used for notifying a fire department of a fire."

Full proposal here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/fire_alarm_box

Add a tag for fire alarm call boxes. A fire alarm box, fire alarm call box, or fire alarm pull box is a device used for notifying a fire department of a fire. Typically installed on street corners or in buildings.

Cities like San Francisco rely on this type of boxes for emergencies because they offer redundancy over other communication systems, like cell phones. In San Francisco these boxes have been reinforced to resist the strongest quakes and are considered to be a redundancy tool in case of emergency. These are placed usually every 2 blocks.

Many of these have already been mapped in San Francisco and other places: https://overpass-turbo.eu/?w=%22emergency%22%3D%22fire_alarm_box%22+global&R

I'd love your opinion on this, these make OSM data even better to build resiliency maps.

Cheers,
stef

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 3. Nov 2018, at 21:37, Stefano Maffulli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Add a tag for fire alarm call boxes. A fire alarm box, fire alarm call box, or fire alarm pull box is a device used for notifying a fire department of a fire. Typically installed on street corners or in buildings.


is this intended only for those alarm boxes that directly notify a fire department or would those for local systems count as well (e.g. ring an alarm bell)?

Cheers, Martin
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

Stefano Maffulli
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 4:00 PM Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:
is this intended only for those alarm boxes that directly notify a fire department or would those for local systems count as well (e.g. ring an alarm bell)?

These are to call the fire department only.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 09:44, Stefano Maffulli <[hidden email]> wrote:
These are to call the fire department only. 

Do we also use this tag to tag the "In case of fire, break glass" alarms eg https://goo.gl/images/4qVSgc, that are found throughout public access buildings eg hospitals, high rise offices, hotels, universities etc?

In Australia at least, all (or the vast majority) of these alarms do go straight to the Fire Service

Thanks

Graeme
 

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

Stefano Maffulli
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 5:33 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Do we also use this tag to tag the "In case of fire, break glass" alarms eg https://goo.gl/images/4qVSgc, that are found throughout public access buildings eg hospitals, high rise offices, hotels, universities etc?

IMO to add those to OSM would be overkill: people frequenting the buildings will know where the alarms are, and those most often get triggered also automatically anyway.

I think it's more worthwhile focusing on the alarms that are in the street, actionable by passer-by, or the volunteers of various disaster response teams. The use case is of a member of such disaster response team doing the first inspections on the ground after a major event (say, earthquake) and noticing fire. Their printed map should have the closest alarm marked.

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

Warin
On 04/11/18 12:12, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 5:33 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Do we also use this tag to tag the "In case of fire, break glass" alarms eg https://goo.gl/images/4qVSgc, that are found throughout public access buildings eg hospitals, high rise offices, hotels, universities etc?

IMO to add those to OSM would be overkill: people frequenting the buildings will know where the alarms are, and those most often get triggered also automatically anyway.

I think it's more worthwhile focusing on the alarms that are in the street, actionable by passer-by, or the volunteers of various disaster response teams. The use case is of a member of such disaster response team doing the first inspections on the ground after a major event (say, earthquake) and noticing fire. Their printed map should have the closest alarm marked.


Usually these things are signed on the ground so that you don't need a map to find them...

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick


sent from a phone

On 4. Nov 2018, at 01:32, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

Do we also use this tag to tag the "In case of fire, break glass" alarms eg https://goo.gl/images/4qVSgc, that are found throughout public access buildings eg hospitals, high rise offices, hotels, universities etc?


it is exactly the same thing . I would also include those in private buildings, there’s no difference. 

Cheers, Martin 

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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

Stefano Maffulli
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 5:40 AM Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

it is exactly the same thing . I would also include those in private buildings, there’s no difference. 

I can see how one would think they are the same. To a first respondent, they have few important differences that may not be visible to non-experts. One, they are maintained by the cities to resist major events. Two, they are accessible to the public, outside of (collapsed?) buildings. Three, the alarms in buildings are expected to be accessible *first* by the people in the building: first respondents are unlikely to reach the alarms in a condo or a bank before the people in there do (or the automatic signal goes off).

You can add alarms in private buildings but I don't see how that information would be valuable. In san francisco, private condos, public buildings and larger buildings are mandated to have fire alarms connected to the fire department anyway so you'd basically map redundant information. Not sure about other places in the world, I don't object to using the tag outside of its scope.

and to answer Warin's comment :

you don't need a map to find them
 
Think of fire hydrants: they are usually on public land and we map them.


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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 4. Nov 2018, at 18:27, Stefano Maffulli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Not sure about other places in the world, I don't object to using the tag outside of its scope


I think you have to make it clear if it should be limited to public alarms on the street, or any alarm box could get the tag including those in buildings, and if it is the former the tag should get a different name, while the tag name is fine if it is intended for any fire alarm box.


Cheers, Martin
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Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - emergency=fire_alarm_box

Stefano Maffulli
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 1:06 PM Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think you have to make it clear if it should be limited to public alarms on the street, or any alarm box could get the tag including those in buildings, and if it is the former the tag should get a different name, while the tag name is fine if it is intended for any fire alarm box.
 
I should have been more precise... What I mean is that we should keep the scope of my initial proposal, that is to limit the tag to alarm boxes placed on the street (like the wikipedia page defines them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_alarm_call_box). The term is fairly well defined in English, there are pictures clarifying what this is supposed to look like and there are examples on OSM already.


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