Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

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Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

bredy
The automated_external_defibrillator proposal has now been stable for some time. It
is therefore time to announce the voting on this proposal.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/automated_external_defibrillator
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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

fly high
Am 29.09.2013 16:27, schrieb bredy:
> The automated_external_defibrillator proposal has now been stable for some
> time. It
> is therefore time to announce the voting on this proposal.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/automated_external_defibrillator
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/automated_external_defibrillator>  

Major problem I find is that using a abbreviation is not the way we tag
in OSM and it is often misleading.

Please change the tag into some human readable words and let software do
the abbreviation.

Thanks
fly


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

Philip Barnes
On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 18:22 +0200, fly wrote:

> Am 29.09.2013 16:27, schrieb bredy:
> > The automated_external_defibrillator proposal has now been stable for some
> > time. It
> > is therefore time to announce the voting on this proposal.
> >
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/automated_external_defibrillator
> > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/automated_external_defibrillator>  
>
> Major problem I find is that using a abbreviation is not the way we tag
> in OSM and it is often misleading.
>
> Please change the tag into some human readable words and let software do
> the abbreviation.
>
> Thanks
> fly
+1

I added the same observation to the wiki discussion. Abbreviations are
always prone to misinterpretation.

Phil ( trigpoint)



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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

bredy
+1 infact in italiy the abbreviation is DAE, only the symbol is same in all state.

I'm not the writer of this proposal, but it's possible to change it now that the vote it start?
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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

Matthijs Melissen
In reply to this post by fly high
On 30 September 2013 18:22, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Major problem I find is that using a abbreviation is not the way we tag
in OSM and it is often misleading.

We do use abbreviations for keys/values: for example mtb, bmx, hgv, psv, url, rcn.

In this particular case, I think more people have familiarity with the abbreviation than with the full term, so I see here nothing wrong with sticking to the abbreviation. Or are you proposing to start using uniform_resource_locator as well?

-- Matthijs


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

François Lacombe
This proposal sounds unclear to me : It says the tag to use is currently under discussion, so what are we voting for ?

Not to mention the abbreviation problem...

François Lacombe

francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
http://www.infos-reseaux.com


2013/9/30 Matthijs Melissen <[hidden email]>
On 30 September 2013 18:22, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Major problem I find is that using a abbreviation is not the way we tag
in OSM and it is often misleading.

We do use abbreviations for keys/values: for example mtb, bmx, hgv, psv, url, rcn.

In this particular case, I think more people have familiarity with the abbreviation than with the full term, so I see here nothing wrong with sticking to the abbreviation. Or are you proposing to start using uniform_resource_locator as well?

-- Matthijs


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Matthijs Melissen

2013/9/30 Matthijs Melissen <[hidden email]>
In this particular case, I think more people have familiarity with the abbreviation than with the full term, so I see here nothing wrong with sticking to the abbreviation.
 

-1

the fact that other tags haven't been chosen well or particularly understandable for non-english mappers (rcn,psv,hgv,...) in the past doesn't imply we have to continue...


cheers,
Martin




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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

John F. Eldredge
In reply to this post by Matthijs Melissen
On 09/30/2013 11:59 AM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
On 30 September 2013 18:22, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Major problem I find is that using a abbreviation is not the way we tag
in OSM and it is often misleading.

We do use abbreviations for keys/values: for example mtb, bmx, hgv, psv, url, rcn.

In this particular case, I think more people have familiarity with the abbreviation than with the full term, so I see here nothing wrong with sticking to the abbreviation. Or are you proposing to start using uniform_resource_locator as well?

-- Matthijs



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I think that it would be better to use the spelled-out term automated_external_defibrillator rather than the acronym AED, to avoid potential confusion.  The OpenStreetMap database is intended for international use, and the spelled-out term is less ambiguous.  It would be possible for the wiki to link the AED acronym to the page listing the spelled-out term, and the wiki could explain why the spelled-out term is preferable for tagging.


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Matthijs Melissen
On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 18:59 +0200, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> On 30 September 2013 18:22, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         Major problem I find is that using a abbreviation is not the
>         way we tag
>         in OSM and it is often misleading.
>
>
> We do use abbreviations for keys/values: for example mtb, bmx, hgv,
> psv, url, rcn.

Those are mostly familiar terms, where the abbreviation is better known
than the actual words. BMX and URL in particular. I do not know MTB or
RCN are however.
>
>
> In this particular case, I think more people have familiarity with the
> abbreviation than with the full term, so I see here nothing wrong with
> sticking to the abbreviation. Or are you proposing to start using
> uniform_resource_locator as well?

Outside of the medical profession I doubt anyone has  heard the term
AED. I certainly hadn't until I saw it in this thread. There may be some
familiarity with them within factories, we have some at work. Then again
I work for a large company with a strong health and safety culture, and
a large number of employees to split the cost over.

Outside of factories and the like, they are still very rare. I know of
one, in Loppington, a small North Shropshire village, but thats because
I am an observant mapper. It has a numerical keylock on it, so imagine
that maybe you phone 999 and ask for the code?

I have never seen one anywhere else, and yes I have looked and keep my
eyes open. Most people will not be aware such things even exist.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

Brad Neuhauser
Just FYI, they are becoming more common in public places (offices, malls, airports, schools, etc) in the US.


On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 18:59 +0200, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> On 30 September 2013 18:22, fly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         Major problem I find is that using a abbreviation is not the
>         way we tag
>         in OSM and it is often misleading.
>
>
> We do use abbreviations for keys/values: for example mtb, bmx, hgv,
> psv, url, rcn.

Those are mostly familiar terms, where the abbreviation is better known
than the actual words. BMX and URL in particular. I do not know MTB or
RCN are however.
>
>
> In this particular case, I think more people have familiarity with the
> abbreviation than with the full term, so I see here nothing wrong with
> sticking to the abbreviation. Or are you proposing to start using
> uniform_resource_locator as well?

Outside of the medical profession I doubt anyone has  heard the term
AED. I certainly hadn't until I saw it in this thread. There may be some
familiarity with them within factories, we have some at work. Then again
I work for a large company with a strong health and safety culture, and
a large number of employees to split the cost over.

Outside of factories and the like, they are still very rare. I know of
one, in Loppington, a small North Shropshire village, but thats because
I am an observant mapper. It has a numerical keylock on it, so imagine
that maybe you phone 999 and ask for the code?

I have never seen one anywhere else, and yes I have looked and keep my
eyes open. Most people will not be aware such things even exist.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

bredy
One year of no discussion and now that start the vote many problem. AED is actual in use in OSM then I don't see problem.
If user don't like this can vote no to proposal.
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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

Philip Barnes
On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 11:57 -0700, bredy wrote:
> One year of no discussion and now that start the vote many problem. AED is
> actual in use in OSM then I don't see problem.
> If user don't like this can vote no to proposal.
>
Its not about voting No, the proposal is a good one. Its about making it
understandable and not using an abbreviation that is not in popular
usage.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

dieterdreist

2013/9/30 Philip Barnes <[hidden email]>
Its not about voting No, the proposal is a good one. Its about making it
understandable and not using an abbreviation that is not in popular
usage.



there are common guidelines for tagging that discourage abbreviations, for good reason.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

bredy
But is possible to change the proposal now that some people have vote?
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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

fly high
On 01.10.2013 14:46, bredy wrote:
> But is possible to change the proposal now that some people have vote?

You can still stop the vote and start a new one next week after changing
and maybe proposing an automatic change for the already existing ones.

cu
fly


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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

bredy
Excuse me but I'm not expert in this operation. Can you do this?
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Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (automated_external_defibrillator)

bredy
Start new vote for select the value of this proposal. Please all that have just vote for the first vote to take a choice.