Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

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Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Jessica Bergmann
Hi all!

Putting out one last request for any individuals who are currently living in or near the following cities who would be available to assist for 2-3 hours at a corporate mapathon taking place next week!

San Francisco 
Tokyo
Hong Kong
Zurich
Frankfurt
Seoul
Taipei
Princeton (New Jersey)
Toronto

Please email me to express your interest and I can follow up with exact details. Again, please only reply if you are currently located in or near these cities!

Cheers,

Jessica

--
Jessica Bergmann
Partnerships & Community Programs Associate
Uganda: +256 754 672 750 | WhatsApp: +1 630 267 3307
Skype: jessica.bergmann91

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NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

ebel
The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities

On 26/03/2019 13:33, Jessica Bergmann wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> Putting out one last request for any individuals who are currently
> living in or near the following cities who would be available to assist
> for 2-3 hours at a corporate mapathon taking place next week!
>
> *San Francisco *
> *Tokyo*
> *Hong Kong*
> *Zurich*
> *Frankfurt*
> *Seoul*
> *Taipei*
> *Princeton (New Jersey)*
> *Toronto*
>
> Please email me to express your interest and I can follow up with exact
> details. Again, please only reply if you are currently located in or
> near these cities!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jessica
>
> --
> *Jessica Bergmann*
> Partnerships & Community Programs Associate
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team <https://www.hotosm.org>
> Uganda: +256 754 672 750 | WhatsApp: +1 630 267 3307
> Skype: jessica.bergmann91
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>



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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.

Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
 
Pierre


Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :


The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities



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[hidden email]
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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Mikel Maron-3
Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/ 

My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.

I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.

Mikel

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.

Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
 
Pierre


Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :


The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Palolo
Mikel et al,

I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.

The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.

Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?

Emmor


On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/ 

My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.

I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.

Mikel

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.

Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
 
Pierre


Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :


The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Rebecca Firth
Hiya,

Just to follow up on this, the mapathons will be supporting Missing Maps projects. Validation activities to support the mapathons are already planned for the following week, as well as other activities such as training and this effort to find local experienced mappers who are interested in supporting the mapathons and providing additional OSM expertise & also contributing to improving quality.

Missing Maps groups are very aware of OEG but are still working on how best to create documentation to fit best with both OEG suggestions and practicality. Much of this information is presently available in slightly different forms (such as the events list on the Missing Maps website), which need to be linked to/synthesized differently to fit with OEG. For additional information, HOT-specific work in progress towards the OEG is available at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team

Thanks,

Rebecca



On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:59 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mikel et al,

I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.

The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.

Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?

Emmor


On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/ 

My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.

I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.

Mikel

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.

Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
 
Pierre


Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :


The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Rebecca Firth
Director, Community & Partnerships
@RebeccaFirthy

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development


_______________________________________________
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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

john whelan-2
To draw a rectangular building in line with another takes two clicks in JOSM using the buildings_tool plugin.  Correctly labelled and square.

To correct a building drawn in iD that is untagged and the wrong shape takes considerably more effort and time when validating.

If you catch the mapper early then you end up with fewer buildings to correct.  If they map say five buildings in a mapathon that's not too bad but some map a couple of dozen and come back to map a couple of dozen more and that becomes a problem.

I've taken new mappers in a mapathon and just shown them the buildings_tool they did fine and mapped fifty buildings each easily.  The buildings even passed Pierre's guidelines.

At the back of my mind is the suspicion that for some charities engagement is important and a mapathon might well be seen as engaging with potential donors.

I don't think there are any simple answers.  Many of the points Emmor mentioned are valid but there is to my mind a justification for spending time with students but a problem can be teachers who have little experience with OSM.

Cheerio John


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 10:19 AM Rebecca Firth, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hiya,

Just to follow up on this, the mapathons will be supporting Missing Maps projects. Validation activities to support the mapathons are already planned for the following week, as well as other activities such as training and this effort to find local experienced mappers who are interested in supporting the mapathons and providing additional OSM expertise & also contributing to improving quality.

Missing Maps groups are very aware of OEG but are still working on how best to create documentation to fit best with both OEG suggestions and practicality. Much of this information is presently available in slightly different forms (such as the events list on the Missing Maps website), which need to be linked to/synthesized differently to fit with OEG. For additional information, HOT-specific work in progress towards the OEG is available at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team

Thanks,

Rebecca



On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:59 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mikel et al,

I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.

The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.

Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?

Emmor


On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/ 

My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.

I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.

Mikel

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.

Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
 
Pierre


Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :


The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Rebecca Firth
Director, Community & Partnerships
@RebeccaFirthy

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Felix Delattre-3
In reply to this post by Rebecca Firth
Hola,

Yes, I think it was one of the concerns of the creators of the revised guidelines to assure that the scattered information on project's websites like Missing Maps and companies' blogs finds a way back to OpenStreetMap's infrastructure.

The Tasking Manager is probably the software that is used for most organised editing efforts. And a lot of the information required by the Organised Editing Guidelines is already present in the projects' descriptions and database of the TM. There the idea emerged that the TM could (automatically) report back to OpenStreetMap. This would make it much easier to comply with the guidelines. Me too, I don't think the wiki is a good place for managing this. Following the idea of automated reporting through the TM, and estimating the amount of projects created on all instances, I know of, I'm not sure, whether we want the wiki to have thousands of entries every year and I actually don't know if automated feeding would work.

However I understand the value to store reporting on organised editing activities on OSMF's side and in one central repository. I just doubt a bit about the technology proposed to be used.
Some conversation around that has started here, and I invite people to participate https://github.com/hotosm/tasking-manager/issues/1373

Thanks,
Felix

On 3/28/19 2:16 PM, Rebecca Firth wrote:
Hiya,

Just to follow up on this, the mapathons will be supporting Missing Maps projects. Validation activities to support the mapathons are already planned for the following week, as well as other activities such as training and this effort to find local experienced mappers who are interested in supporting the mapathons and providing additional OSM expertise & also contributing to improving quality.

Missing Maps groups are very aware of OEG but are still working on how best to create documentation to fit best with both OEG suggestions and practicality. Much of this information is presently available in slightly different forms (such as the events list on the Missing Maps website), which need to be linked to/synthesized differently to fit with OEG. For additional information, HOT-specific work in progress towards the OEG is available at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team

Thanks,

Rebecca



On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:59 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mikel et al,

I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.

The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.

Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?

Emmor


On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/ 

My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.

I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.

Mikel

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.

Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
 
Pierre


Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :


The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Rebecca Firth
Director, Community & Partnerships
@RebeccaFirthy

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot



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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Mikel Maron-3
Felix I agree with that approach. If it needs to be in the wiki, then automated ways to create that archive makes sense.

Rebecca, I think those activities are critical. My perspective is that someone in HOT needs to be primarily responsible for looking after data, quality and adherence and consistency to tagging practices, making sure documentation is in order, and that HOT aligns with OSM community practices. I think we’ve had an assumption that best practice in OSM pervades everything and everyone, and that this all will just happen. But HOT is such a scale of operation and growth, data needs to be looked as an enterprise wide asset. In government this role is sometimes called a Chief Data Officer. Similar to a CTO / Tech Director who has an organization wide vision strategy and operation for the development of the tech stack.

Mikel

On Thursday, March 28, 2019, 10:41 AM, Felix Delattre <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hola,

Yes, I think it was one of the concerns of the creators of the revised guidelines to assure that the scattered information on project's websites like Missing Maps and companies' blogs finds a way back to OpenStreetMap's infrastructure.

The Tasking Manager is probably the software that is used for most organised editing efforts. And a lot of the information required by the Organised Editing Guidelines is already present in the projects' descriptions and database of the TM. There the idea emerged that the TM could (automatically) report back to OpenStreetMap. This would make it much easier to comply with the guidelines. Me too, I don't think the wiki is a good place for managing this. Following the idea of automated reporting through the TM, and estimating the amount of projects created on all instances, I know of, I'm not sure, whether we want the wiki to have thousands of entries every year and I actually don't know if automated feeding would work.

However I understand the value to store reporting on organised editing activities on OSMF's side and in one central repository. I just doubt a bit about the technology proposed to be used.
Some conversation around that has started here, and I invite people to participate https://github.com/hotosm/tasking-manager/issues/1373

Thanks,
Felix

On 3/28/19 2:16 PM, Rebecca Firth wrote:
Hiya,

Just to follow up on this, the mapathons will be supporting Missing Maps projects. Validation activities to support the mapathons are already planned for the following week, as well as other activities such as training and this effort to find local experienced mappers who are interested in supporting the mapathons and providing additional OSM expertise & also contributing to improving quality.

Missing Maps groups are very aware of OEG but are still working on how best to create documentation to fit best with both OEG suggestions and practicality. Much of this information is presently available in slightly different forms (such as the events list on the Missing Maps website), which need to be linked to/synthesized differently to fit with OEG. For additional information, HOT-specific work in progress towards the OEG is available at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team

Thanks,

Rebecca



On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:59 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mikel et al,

I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.

The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.

Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?

Emmor


On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/ 

My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.

I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.

Mikel

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.

Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
 
Pierre


Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :


The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
help you make this a successful mapathon.

In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Rebecca Firth
Director, Community & Partnerships
@RebeccaFirthy

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Blake Girardot
In reply to this post by john whelan-2
I gave it everything I could to get an iD editor buildings tool
completed and finally gave up after a few years.

This might be a good use of HOT's tech money or another partner who
has experience developing for iD.

How much effort and problems would be alleviated with an iD building tool?

Cheers,
Blake

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 10:40 AM john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> To draw a rectangular building in line with another takes two clicks in JOSM using the buildings_tool plugin.  Correctly labelled and square.
>
> To correct a building drawn in iD that is untagged and the wrong shape takes considerably more effort and time when validating.
>
> If you catch the mapper early then you end up with fewer buildings to correct.  If they map say five buildings in a mapathon that's not too bad but some map a couple of dozen and come back to map a couple of dozen more and that becomes a problem.
>
> I've taken new mappers in a mapathon and just shown them the buildings_tool they did fine and mapped fifty buildings each easily.  The buildings even passed Pierre's guidelines.
>
> At the back of my mind is the suspicion that for some charities engagement is important and a mapathon might well be seen as engaging with potential donors.
>
> I don't think there are any simple answers.  Many of the points Emmor mentioned are valid but there is to my mind a justification for spending time with students but a problem can be teachers who have little experience with OSM.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 10:19 AM Rebecca Firth, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hiya,
>>
>> Just to follow up on this, the mapathons will be supporting Missing Maps projects. Validation activities to support the mapathons are already planned for the following week, as well as other activities such as training and this effort to find local experienced mappers who are interested in supporting the mapathons and providing additional OSM expertise & also contributing to improving quality.
>>
>> Missing Maps groups are very aware of OEG but are still working on how best to create documentation to fit best with both OEG suggestions and practicality. Much of this information is presently available in slightly different forms (such as the events list on the Missing Maps website), which need to be linked to/synthesized differently to fit with OEG. For additional information, HOT-specific work in progress towards the OEG is available at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:59 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mikel et al,
>>>
>>> I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
>>> I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
>>> It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
>>> 1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
>>> 2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
>>> 3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
>>> 4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
>>> 5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
>>> 6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
>>> 7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
>>> 8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
>>> 9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.
>>>
>>> The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
>>> I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
>>> I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.
>>>
>>> Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?
>>>
>>> Emmor
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post
>>>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/
>>>>
>>>> My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Mikel
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
>>>> Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
>>>> help you make this a successful mapathon.
>>>>
>>>> In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
>>>> the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rebecca Firth
>> Director, Community & Partnerships
>> [hidden email]
>> @RebeccaFirthy
>>
>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>> Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development
>> web | twitter | facebook | donate
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot



--
----------------------------------------------------
Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Mikel Maron-3
Actually things are moving on iD, with focus on validation and expanded tools. The blocker was never people asking for a building tool.

Improved validation in iD will help a lot. Being able to specify in TM projects that iD should load for beginners treating any problems as errors not warnings will be big.

It still leaves a whole in responsibility within HOT for data across the enterprise.


Mikel

On Thursday, March 28, 2019, 11:14 AM, Blake Girardot <[hidden email]> wrote:

I gave it everything I could to get an iD editor buildings tool
completed and finally gave up after a few years.

This might be a good use of HOT's tech money or another partner who
has experience developing for iD.

How much effort and problems would be alleviated with an iD building tool?

Cheers,
Blake

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 10:40 AM john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> To draw a rectangular building in line with another takes two clicks in JOSM using the buildings_tool plugin.  Correctly labelled and square.
>
> To correct a building drawn in iD that is untagged and the wrong shape takes considerably more effort and time when validating.
>
> If you catch the mapper early then you end up with fewer buildings to correct.  If they map say five buildings in a mapathon that's not too bad but some map a couple of dozen and come back to map a couple of dozen more and that becomes a problem.
>
> I've taken new mappers in a mapathon and just shown them the buildings_tool they did fine and mapped fifty buildings each easily.  The buildings even passed Pierre's guidelines.
>
> At the back of my mind is the suspicion that for some charities engagement is important and a mapathon might well be seen as engaging with potential donors.
>
> I don't think there are any simple answers.  Many of the points Emmor mentioned are valid but there is to my mind a justification for spending time with students but a problem can be teachers who have little experience with OSM.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 10:19 AM Rebecca Firth, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hiya,
>>
>> Just to follow up on this, the mapathons will be supporting Missing Maps projects. Validation activities to support the mapathons are already planned for the following week, as well as other activities such as training and this effort to find local experienced mappers who are interested in supporting the mapathons and providing additional OSM expertise & also contributing to improving quality.
>>
>> Missing Maps groups are very aware of OEG but are still working on how best to create documentation to fit best with both OEG suggestions and practicality. Much of this information is presently available in slightly different forms (such as the events list on the Missing Maps website), which need to be linked to/synthesized differently to fit with OEG. For additional information, HOT-specific work in progress towards the OEG is available at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:59 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mikel et al,
>>>
>>> I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
>>> I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
>>> It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
>>> 1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
>>> 2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
>>> 3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
>>> 4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
>>> 5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
>>> 6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
>>> 7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
>>> 8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
>>> 9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.
>>>
>>> The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
>>> I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
>>> I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.
>>>
>>> Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?
>>>
>>> Emmor
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post
>>>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/
>>>>
>>>> My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Mikel
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
>>>> Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
>>>> help you make this a successful mapathon.
>>>>
>>>> In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
>>>> the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rebecca Firth
>> Director, Community & Partnerships
>> [hidden email]
>> @RebeccaFirthy
>>
>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>> Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development
>> web | twitter | facebook | donate
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot



--
----------------------------------------------------
Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot


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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
In reply to this post by Blake Girardot
Providing tools sophisticated or not to Newbies is not the only problem with quality. See my response about quality for the ticket https://github.com/hotosm/tasking-manager/issues/1373

With the advent of the MissingMaps project in 2014, the organizations that sponsor that project did not only organize mapathons but regularly advocated for groups around the world to organize mapathons. Since Nepal 2015, all the major OSM disaster Responses have suffered from massive participation of newbies with bad quality edits. The same with the various actions to help for humanitarian NGO's vaccination campaigns and other projects.

The TM let's escalate mapping for the Good or the Bad (Quality).  The major role presently is to distribute tasks.  What can be done to offer more Coordination functions with a more complex Mapping Network with brokers like MissingMaps and unknown mapathons organizers ?

Pierre





Le jeudi 28 mars 2019 11 h 16 min 16 s HAE, Blake Girardot <[hidden email]> a écrit :


I gave it everything I could to get an iD editor buildings tool
completed and finally gave up after a few years.

This might be a good use of HOT's tech money or another partner who
has experience developing for iD.

How much effort and problems would be alleviated with an iD building tool?

Cheers,
Blake

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 10:40 AM john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> To draw a rectangular building in line with another takes two clicks in JOSM using the buildings_tool plugin.  Correctly labelled and square.
>
> To correct a building drawn in iD that is untagged and the wrong shape takes considerably more effort and time when validating.
>
> If you catch the mapper early then you end up with fewer buildings to correct.  If they map say five buildings in a mapathon that's not too bad but some map a couple of dozen and come back to map a couple of dozen more and that becomes a problem.
>
> I've taken new mappers in a mapathon and just shown them the buildings_tool they did fine and mapped fifty buildings each easily.  The buildings even passed Pierre's guidelines.
>
> At the back of my mind is the suspicion that for some charities engagement is important and a mapathon might well be seen as engaging with potential donors.
>
> I don't think there are any simple answers.  Many of the points Emmor mentioned are valid but there is to my mind a justification for spending time with students but a problem can be teachers who have little experience with OSM.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 10:19 AM Rebecca Firth, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hiya,
>>
>> Just to follow up on this, the mapathons will be supporting Missing Maps projects. Validation activities to support the mapathons are already planned for the following week, as well as other activities such as training and this effort to find local experienced mappers who are interested in supporting the mapathons and providing additional OSM expertise & also contributing to improving quality.
>>
>> Missing Maps groups are very aware of OEG but are still working on how best to create documentation to fit best with both OEG suggestions and practicality. Much of this information is presently available in slightly different forms (such as the events list on the Missing Maps website), which need to be linked to/synthesized differently to fit with OEG. For additional information, HOT-specific work in progress towards the OEG is available at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:59 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mikel et al,
>>>
>>> I agree that we need to change the way we do mapathons, the credibility of HOT and OSM is at risk.
>>> I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
>>> It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills. The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
>>> 1) The instructions are not followed, nor even apparently read.
>>> 2) Individuals assume that a tile must be completely mapped and will add features that are not called for in the instructions such as landuse or highways.
>>> 3) The tagging of features is not done based on OSM guidance, for example a path in Tanzania is often tagged as "motorway", "primary", "secondary" or other type of highway.
>>> 4) Additional tags are added without local knowledge such as railroads, traffic cameras, and businesses that are not apparent from imagery.
>>> 5) Using iD with the default image (Bing) without changing the background image leads people to mark a tile as "bad imagery" when the Digital Globe or Esri imagery in that location is fine.
>>> 6) Sometimes mappers will assume that OSM is a game like Sim City or Minecraft and create their own imaginary features
>>> 7) One characteristic of many of these mappers is an apparent hurried to try to finish a tile. The buildings are over-generalized by either combining buildings, creating polygons much larger than the actual building, often the shapes are very crude and are not carefully formed with right angles, many buildings are skipped or overlooked, many are overlapping with other buildings or roads, and in many cases create self-intersecting polygons
>>> 8) Once a mapper starts with these bad habits the habits are picked up by others working at the same time which expands the problems
>>> 9) It appears that after a small number of edit sessions the mappers from these efforts do not continue with other HOT tasks, and presumably go a way thinking they have done their feel-good-humanitarian-service.
>>>
>>> The net result of these mapathons is that rather than contributing to the completion of mapping in an area, there is actually more work required to clean up the messes than there would have been to properly trace the features from scratch.
>>> I do not believe this is a validation issue, but is an issue with leadership. The individual organizing the event for the corporation or group may have little or no OSM experience, and have been giving the task of setting up the mapathon  and do not have the skills or expertise to help newbie mappers.  I also have seen people that claim to have OSM experience or skills often are very inexperienced and have very slight exposure, There is a lot to learn about OSM, and we do ourselves a disservice by saying that it's easy and anyone can do it. We should be happy to teach people, but I don't believe any of us doesn't have more to learn.
>>> I have led several corporate mapathons in person and remotely, they are hard work. The same can be said for tertiary school effort.
>>>
>>> Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential mapathon leaders?
>>>
>>> Emmor
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:06 PM Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Important to note the guidelines are suggestions not enforced requirements of the OSMF. More on that in the blog post
>>>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/02/09/organised-editing-guidelines/
>>>>
>>>> My opinion is master list of mapathons is a very good idea. I don’t think the wiki is best system suited to be the place for that primary list. Another tool could mirror to the wiki for archiving purposes.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Pierre. Data quality needs to become a primary focus of these and other mapping activities asap. Otherwise it’s not valuable experience for those present or everyone else working with OSM data. I think that will take more than trend, but a substantial direct investment by HOT, Missing Maps and others in systematically operationalizing data quality improvements across through training, monitoring, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Mikel
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 11:22 AM, Pierre Béland via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Shoud I insist, we also need a new trend where such projects take responsability to produce quality data.  Badly, too often, this is not what we observe.  For the Ebola response in North Kivu, the coordinators, we had to restart the mapping of Butembo in december since the data produced by newbies was so imprecise, so incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> Adequate training material and mapathon procedures need to be developped for Live data monitoring, interaction with newbies, and correct immediately quality problems.
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le mercredi 27 mars 2019 10 h 40 min 07 s HAE, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The OSM community & Foundation has recently adopted the Organised
>>>> Editing Guidelines, to guide events like this. The community wants to
>>>> help you make this a successful mapathon.
>>>>
>>>> In emails like this, and in accordance with the OEG, you should link to
>>>> the wiki page(s) describing your mapathon.
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rebecca Firth
>> Director, Community & Partnerships
>> [hidden email]
>> @RebeccaFirthy
>>
>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>> Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development
>> web | twitter | facebook | donate
>>
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>
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--
----------------------------------------------------
Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot


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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

ebel
In reply to this post by Palolo
On 28.03.19 02:57, Vao Matua wrote:
> I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT
> tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
> It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not
> led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills.
> The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
> ...
> Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential
> mapathon leaders?

Isn't this why we created the Organized Editing Guidelines in the first
place? One solution is for mapathon hosts to talk about it before hand,
and for people will more experience to provide feedback?

We spent a year on the organized editing policy. Why fart around
ignoring the solution we have chosen. Let's move on. Mapathons can be of
good quality and good for the community by following the policy. The
rules are there. Follow them. Map. Organize. Have fun.

Rory


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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Mikel Maron-3
The guidelines are helpful high level guidance but the actual challenge is in implementation. Building a proper data operation, whether in OSM or not, is not just about talking to people and provide feedback. It definitely is that, but needs to be in a system. But working across all aspects of data operations systematically. 

It would really benefit the broader community to understand what those systems look like from groups that have built them. HOT could learn and the authors of the guidelines could learn, if they want to listen. 

Mikel

On Thursday, March 28, 2019, 2:04 PM, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 28.03.19 02:57, Vao Matua wrote:
> I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT
> tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
> It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not
> led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills.
> The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
> ...
> Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential
> mapathon leaders?

Isn't this why we created the Organized Editing Guidelines in the first
place? One solution is for mapathon hosts to talk about it before hand,
and for people will more experience to provide feedback?

We spent a year on the organized editing policy. Why fart around
ignoring the solution we have chosen. Let's move on. Mapathons can be of
good quality and good for the community by following the policy. The
rules are there. Follow them. Map. Organize. Have fun.


Rory


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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Palolo
In reply to this post by ebel
Rory,

You are absolutely right, I'm not suggesting not using those guidelines, we need them. The Organized Editing Guidelines are fine and I believe most of the people in the OSM community want to follow the guidelines or at least follow in spirit. I've worked very hard to create good clear instructions when creating HOT tasks. If a mapathon host or newbie editor would follow those directions and the Guidelines we wouldn't have the problems we are seeing. 
The challenge I see is: How do we help the semi-informed follow those guidelines and the task instructions?

Emmor




On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:05 AM Rory McCann <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 28.03.19 02:57, Vao Matua wrote:
> I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT
> tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
> It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not
> led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills.
> The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
> ...
> Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential
> mapathon leaders?

Isn't this why we created the Organized Editing Guidelines in the first
place? One solution is for mapathon hosts to talk about it before hand,
and for people will more experience to provide feedback?

We spent a year on the organized editing policy. Why fart around
ignoring the solution we have chosen. Let's move on. Mapathons can be of
good quality and good for the community by following the policy. The
rules are there. Follow them. Map. Organize. Have fun.

Rory


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Re: NB: Organised Editing Guidelines | Re: Final Request: Volunteers Needed for Global Mapathons!

Tyler Radford
Hi all,
I want to recognize a key point here brought up by both Pierre and Mikel: quality of our data matters. And it is of increasing importance as the size of the community & number of mapping projects grows.

The idea around a Chief Data Officer or similar certainly has merit. It's not something we as an NGO have the resources to do immediately but I'm adding the topic to our next management meeting.

We do care deeply about the usefulness and quality of what the NGO and broader community is producing and there are a couple near-term steps we are taking:

1. Software improvements to Tasking Manager (and iD) to limit "bad data" and promote quality data.
2. Writing a FAQ/guidelines for project managers (at HOT, other NGOs, and community organizers) on how to "operationalize" the organized editing guidelines in their work.
3. Dedicated Quality Assurance team members - starting next week we're assigning 4 QA staff from our Tanzania team to support the Cyclone Idai activation full-time for the next month.
4. Missing Maps - HOT has a (single) full time QA/data validation person to support corporate mapathon validation. Not enough but it's a start.
5. Better community support - I asked Russ Deffner to take on a 5-hour a week community support role to work with the over 250 people who have access to create projects in the Tasking Manager. Russ will be doing things like - training in project creation, monitoring, reporting, and followup with project managers on validation progress across all projects.

I'd consider these "quick impact" - not a global, long-term solution. But hopefully a step in the right direction.
Tyler

Tyler Radford
Executive Director
@TylerSRadford

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 5:55 PM Vao Matua <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rory,

You are absolutely right, I'm not suggesting not using those guidelines, we need them. The Organized Editing Guidelines are fine and I believe most of the people in the OSM community want to follow the guidelines or at least follow in spirit. I've worked very hard to create good clear instructions when creating HOT tasks. If a mapathon host or newbie editor would follow those directions and the Guidelines we wouldn't have the problems we are seeing. 
The challenge I see is: How do we help the semi-informed follow those guidelines and the task instructions?

Emmor




On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:05 AM Rory McCann <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 28.03.19 02:57, Vao Matua wrote:
> I have observed some characteristics about the OSM mapping through HOT
> tasks being done by mapathons, primarily ones done by corporate sponsors.
> It appears that often these efforts are not well led, or at least not
> led by individuals that have a good level of OSM experience and skills.
> The results are that very common mistakes and errors are created.
> ...
> Perhaps HOT should establish a test or a vetting process for potential
> mapathon leaders?

Isn't this why we created the Organized Editing Guidelines in the first
place? One solution is for mapathon hosts to talk about it before hand,
and for people will more experience to provide feedback?

We spent a year on the organized editing policy. Why fart around
ignoring the solution we have chosen. Let's move on. Mapathons can be of
good quality and good for the community by following the policy. The
rules are there. Follow them. Map. Organize. Have fun.

Rory


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