Game and toy library

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Re: Game and toy library

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 06:49, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd go with amenity=toy_library and the sub-tags, or maybe not even bother with the sub-tags.

Not arguing!, but going back to my question about Family History libraries, I wonder whether a lot of the confusion about "what's in this "library"" wouldn't be sorted by the name?

Assume for one moment that everything is tagged as amenity=library, with sub-tags lending=yes, toys=no, games=yes, family_history=no etc.

I can see that just the standard "book" library icon showing would cause some confusion, but if this library is named "Southport Public Library", while this one a bit further down the road is "Fun & Games", then I at least know which one I'm going to go into to to borrow some books to read, & which one has games!

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Game and toy library

Joseph Eisenberg
In California, several cities have a community “Tool Library”, a type of lending “library” where you can check out hand tools and power tools for garden or construction projects. I believe the ones in Portland and Berkeley have no fee, and rely on volunteer labor.
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 6:13 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 06:49, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd go with amenity=toy_library and the sub-tags, or maybe not even bother with the sub-tags.

Not arguing!, but going back to my question about Family History libraries, I wonder whether a lot of the confusion about "what's in this "library"" wouldn't be sorted by the name?

Assume for one moment that everything is tagged as amenity=library, with sub-tags lending=yes, toys=no, games=yes, family_history=no etc.

I can see that just the standard "book" library icon showing would cause some confusion, but if this library is named "Southport Public Library", while this one a bit further down the road is "Fun & Games", then I at least know which one I'm going to go into to to borrow some books to read, & which one has games!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: Game and toy library

bkil
Some Fablabs also offer tool lending, although it is much more common
to see in place use
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dhackerspace

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:42 PM Joseph Eisenberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> In California, several cities have a community “Tool Library”, a type of lending “library” where you can check out hand tools and power tools for garden or construction projects. I believe the ones in Portland and Berkeley have no fee, and rely on volunteer labor.
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 6:13 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 06:49, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd go with amenity=toy_library and the sub-tags, or maybe not even bother with the sub-tags.
>>
>>
>> Not arguing!, but going back to my question about Family History libraries, I wonder whether a lot of the confusion about "what's in this "library"" wouldn't be sorted by the name?
>>
>> Assume for one moment that everything is tagged as amenity=library, with sub-tags lending=yes, toys=no, games=yes, family_history=no etc.
>>
>> I can see that just the standard "book" library icon showing would cause some confusion, but if this library is named "Southport Public Library", while this one a bit further down the road is "Fun & Games", then I at least know which one I'm going to go into to to borrow some books to read, & which one has games!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
In reply to this post by ChameleonScales
I made some updates to the wiki proposal and I propose we continue the discussion on its discussion page.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 11:23 PM, ChameleonScales <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

Game and toy libraries don't fit in any feature type.
They can be but are not necessarily:
- non-profit organizations
- child care facilities
- social faciilties
- toy stores
- libraries
- probably other things

So I think they should have their own feature type and tag.
How about
amenity:library=game_and_toy

Would that be possible?


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Re: Game and toy library

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:13 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 06:49, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd go with amenity=toy_library and the sub-tags, or maybe not even bother with the sub-tags.

Not arguing!, but going back to my question about Family History libraries, I wonder whether a lot of the confusion about "what's in this "library"" wouldn't be sorted by the name?

`1) What's your design for a generic "This institution lends things of some sort, possibly charging
for a rental fee" that covers book libraries, toy libraries, tool hire...

2) In some cases a library (of whatever sort) may be in a cluttered area so there is no room
to render the name, just the icon.  So even if you can come up with a suitable generic icon,
you don't know what kind of lending institution it is.  At least with amenity=library, amenity=toy_library,
etc. you can have different icons.

--
Paul


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Re: Game and toy library

Warin
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On 11/10/18 08:11, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 06:49, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd go with amenity=toy_library and the sub-tags, or maybe not even bother with the sub-tags.

Not arguing!, but going back to my question about Family History libraries, I wonder whether a lot of the confusion about "what's in this "library"" wouldn't be sorted by the name?

Assume for one moment that everything is tagged as amenity=library, with sub-tags lending=yes, toys=no, games=yes, family_history=no etc.

I can see that just the standard "book" library icon showing would cause some confusion, but if this library is named "Southport Public Library", while this one a bit further down the road is "Fun & Games", then I at least know which one I'm going to go into to to borrow some books to read, & which one has games!


Libraries I know have some 'family history' records have nothing in their name to indicate that detail.

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Re: Game and toy library

Warin
In reply to this post by ChameleonScales
Took me a while to find it .. to save otehrs time here is a link.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/toy_and_game_library

Proposals are usually discussed both here and on their own discussion page.

On 11/10/18 20:27, ChameleonScales wrote:
I made some updates to the wiki proposal and I propose we continue the discussion on its discussion page.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 11:23 PM, ChameleonScales <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

Game and toy libraries don't fit in any feature type.
They can be but are not necessarily:
- non-profit organizations
- child care facilities
- social faciilties
- toy stores
- libraries
- probably other things

So I think they should have their own feature type and tag.
How about
amenity:library=game_and_toy

Would that be possible?


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.




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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
Sure but if anyone has something to say that is directly related to my proposal it would be best to discuss it there.

Other than that, is it complete enough to move it from Draft to Proposed?

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, October 12, 2018 3:21 AM, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Took me a while to find it .. to save otehrs time here is a link.


Proposals are usually discussed both here and on their own discussion page.

On 11/10/18 20:27, ChameleonScales wrote:
I made some updates to the wiki proposal and I propose we continue the discussion on its discussion page.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 11:23 PM, ChameleonScales <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

Game and toy libraries don't fit in any feature type.
They can be but are not necessarily:
- non-profit organizations
- child care facilities
- social faciilties
- toy stores
- libraries
- probably other things

So I think they should have their own feature type and tag.
How about
amenity:library=game_and_toy

Would that be possible?


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.




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Re: Game and toy library

Mateusz Konieczny-3
13. Oct 2018 02:49 by [hidden email]:
Other than that, is it complete enough to move it from Draft to Proposed?

Feel free to do that - there is no real difference between Draft and Proposed


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Re: Game and toy library

dieterdreist


Am Mo., 15. Okt. 2018 um 12:05 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]>:
13. Oct 2018 02:49 by [hidden email]:
Other than that, is it complete enough to move it from Draft to Proposed?

Feel free to do that - there is no real difference between Draft and Proposed


there is a slight difference in the communication with the others: if a proposal is a draft I would expect with higher probability that anything may change at any time, while a "proposed" status suggests that the definition is less likely to change. It is up to you (the author of the proposal) to decide which status to assign. "proposed" is usually set after you asked for comments on this list (RFC).

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
Yeah actually I'm still working on it.
I'd like them to have tags for whether they can lend or not and what public is targeted (children or all ages). When I travel and look for a board game to rent I don't want to end up in a child care center with no adult games.

Also I'd like to upload a proposed svg icon but apparently I don't have permission to upload media files on the wiki. Can anyone do it?
The svg is attached to this mail.

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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
Also I discussed with a senior toy and game library owner and she says "toy library" is better even if it doesn't include "game" because it's a more established name.

So how can I change the url of my proposal to toy_library instead of toy_and_game_library?

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Re: Game and toy library

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by ChameleonScales
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 2:29 PM ChameleonScales <[hidden email]> wrote:

Also I'd like to upload a proposed svg icon but apparently I don't have permission to upload media files on the wiki.

You haven't made enough edits on the wiki for the automated system to consider you sufficiently
trustworthy to upload files.

I'd do it for you, but I don't think the icon is suitable.  It is a games icon.  As you say in another
post, you've decided that "toy library" is more commonly used than "toy and games library" to
refer to these places, so your icon gives the wrong impression.

I'd also note that the icon for a book library is identical in shape to that of a bookshop but the
library icon is brown (amenity) and the bookshop icon is purple (shop).  I'd therefore suggest that
it's more in keeping with established practise to use a brown version of the toyshop icon (I don't know
if that's something that the carto stages can do automatically from a single icon or if you need to
generate a brown version).

Also, these icons are rendered at 16x16 pixels on the map and your icon is not going to be legible.

And even if I thought your icon were appropriate and suitable, it's the wrong colour anyway. :)

--
Paul


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Re: Game and toy library

Joseph Eisenberg
Yes, the software can change the icon color, so if an existing icon shape is good, we can just use that.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:57 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 2:29 PM ChameleonScales <[hidden email]> wrote:

Also I'd like to upload a proposed svg icon but apparently I don't have permission to upload media files on the wiki.

You haven't made enough edits on the wiki for the automated system to consider you sufficiently
trustworthy to upload files.

I'd do it for you, but I don't think the icon is suitable.  It is a games icon.  As you say in another
post, you've decided that "toy library" is more commonly used than "toy and games library" to
refer to these places, so your icon gives the wrong impression.

I'd also note that the icon for a book library is identical in shape to that of a bookshop but the
library icon is brown (amenity) and the bookshop icon is purple (shop).  I'd therefore suggest that
it's more in keeping with established practise to use a brown version of the toyshop icon (I don't know
if that's something that the carto stages can do automatically from a single icon or if you need to
generate a brown version).

Also, these icons are rendered at 16x16 pixels on the map and your icon is not going to be legible.

And even if I thought your icon were appropriate and suitable, it's the wrong colour anyway. :)

--
Paul

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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
You made good points. Let's use a brown rocking horse then.

So, about my url question, is it doable?

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Monday, October 15, 2018 4:04 PM, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yes, the software can change the icon color, so if an existing icon shape is good, we can just use that.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:57 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 2:29 PM ChameleonScales <[hidden email]> wrote:

Also I'd like to upload a proposed svg icon but apparently I don't have permission to upload media files on the wiki.

You haven't made enough edits on the wiki for the automated system to consider you sufficiently
trustworthy to upload files.

I'd do it for you, but I don't think the icon is suitable.  It is a games icon.  As you say in another
post, you've decided that "toy library" is more commonly used than "toy and games library" to
refer to these places, so your icon gives the wrong impression.

I'd also note that the icon for a book library is identical in shape to that of a bookshop but the
library icon is brown (amenity) and the bookshop icon is purple (shop).  I'd therefore suggest that
it's more in keeping with established practise to use a brown version of the toyshop icon (I don't know
if that's something that the carto stages can do automatically from a single icon or if you need to
generate a brown version).

Also, these icons are rendered at 16x16 pixels on the map and your icon is not going to be legible.

And even if I thought your icon were appropriate and suitable, it's the wrong colour anyway. :)

--
Paul

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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
I made some updates. Feedback appreciated.


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Re: Game and toy library

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
Note that

(a) proposed icon is the least important part of any proposal and may be safely skipped
(b) if someone really wants to add a proposed icon there is no obligation to
follow colour scheme and size limitations of a specific map style

15. Oct 2018 15:55 by [hidden email]:

On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 2:29 PM ChameleonScales <[hidden email]> wrote:

Also I'd like to upload a proposed svg icon but apparently I don't have permission to upload media files on the wiki.

You haven't made enough edits on the wiki for the automated system to consider you sufficiently
trustworthy to upload files.

I'd do it for you, but I don't think the icon is suitable.  It is a games icon.  As you say in another
post, you've decided that "toy library" is more commonly used than "toy and games library" to
refer to these places, so your icon gives the wrong impression.

I'd also note that the icon for a book library is identical in shape to that of a bookshop but the
library icon is brown (amenity) and the bookshop icon is purple (shop).  I'd therefore suggest that
it's more in keeping with established practise to use a brown version of the toyshop icon (I don't know
if that's something that the carto stages can do automatically from a single icon or if you need to
generate a brown version).

Also, these icons are rendered at 16x16 pixels on the map and your icon is not going to be legible.

And even if I thought your icon were appropriate and suitable, it's the wrong colour anyway. :)

--
Paul


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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
Thanks but this has already been taken care of in the proposal page. I don't see why you're pointing that out now.

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Re: Game and toy library

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by ChameleonScales
15. Oct 2018 15:34 by [hidden email]:

So how can I change the url of my proposal to toy_library instead of toy_and_game_library?

I moved the page in


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/toy_library&diff=1680852&oldid=1680850


For future: there should be an option to move page near "edit" button.


For me it is hidden in "more" menu.


In general, OSM wiki is using mediawiki software, the same as Wikipedia so googling


<mediawiki change title>

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mediawiki+change+title&t=canonical&ia=web


<wikipedia change title>

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=wikipedia+change+title&t=canonical&ia=web


sometimes helps to find how to do some things.


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Re: Game and toy library

ChameleonScales
I made some changes again. Mainly I changed "rental" to "loan" even though loan doesn't exist, because they have a quite different meaning:

and I changed the age tags to account for a comment in the proposal's discussion page.

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