Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

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Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Dan Karran
2009/9/17 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <[hidden email]>:
> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
> other side?

It's actually quite disturbing to think that GPS units are going to be
using the same data and presumably giving similar directions in-car.

> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13.277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
>
> http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&directions=52.50880994711401,13.266667127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806&travel=car&styleId=1

I was looking last night at a route on the Isle of Man and found some
inconsistencies around following the same road,

e.g. 'take first right' when really there's a road off to the left and
the road you're on just continues as normal

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Cregneash,+Castletown,+UK&daddr=Ramsey,+Lezayre,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&geocode=%3BFRXkPAMdehC9_w&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=52.936326,-2.040032&sspn=7.47315,19.160156&ie=UTF8&ll=54.203247,-4.628962&spn=0.00177,0.004678&t=h&z=18

and 'turn right' to stay on the same road, even though it just
continues past the junction with a curve to the right.

I guess I should check out OSM's routing on similar routes to make
sure it doesn't have similarly confusing pitfalls :)


Dan

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Dan Karran
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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Stephen Hope
2009/9/18 Dan Karran <[hidden email]>:
>
> and 'turn right' to stay on the same road, even though it just
> continues past the junction with a curve to the right.
>

Well yes, but there is a road going straight ahead as well. I've seen
plenty of situations where it is not obvious that the road you are on
is not the one going straight ahead.  If the instructions say "follow
this road" but didn't tell me that the road I'm supposed to be
following turns right at a certain intersection, I would tend to go
straight ahead.  I have in fact done this several times, at different
places.

In this situation, looking at the aerial photography, it would be
obvious which road to take.  But I'd rather it warned me unnecessarily
than not warn me when it was needed.

Stephen

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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Stefan Baebler
In reply to this post by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
> other side?
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13.277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
Nice catch!

> http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&directions=52.50880994711401,13.266667127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806&travel=car&styleId=1
Try reversing this route.... it starts with 2 consecutive U-turns in
instructions (on left) in two different intersections while it goes
straight on map.

Stefan

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Re: [Talk-de] Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Peter Körner
In reply to this post by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason schrieb:
> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
> other side?
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13.277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
>
> http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&directions=52.50880994711401,13.266667127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806&travel=car&styleId=1

Hum.. what do you want to tell us? :) Sorry if it's self-evident, but I
don't see your point. Which of the both routes is wrong? or are they
both valid? Which one would you prefer, then?

Peter

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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Steven Le Roux
In reply to this post by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason


On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
other side?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13.277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18

http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&directions=52.50880994711401,13.266667127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806&travel=car&styleId=1


"Why the Hell all drivers are driving the wrong way !!!" :)
 
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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Maarten Deen
In reply to this post by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
 > Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
 > traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
 > other side?
 >
 >
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13.277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
 >
 >
http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&directions=52.50880994711401,13.266667127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806&travel=car&styleId=1

Haha. Nice one. Maybe you can? There is no line in the middle of the road
preventing crossing the road (see also the car turning a little south). I do
assume there is a "no left turn" sign at the side of the road, but from this
angle, that sign is invisible ;)

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [Talk-de] Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

lsces
In reply to this post by Peter Körner
Peter Körner wrote:

> Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason schrieb:
>> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
>> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
>> other side?
>>
>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13.277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
>>
>> http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&directions=52.50880994711401,13.266667127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806&travel=car&styleId=1
>
> Hum.. what do you want to tell us? :) Sorry if it's self-evident, but I
> don't see your point. Which of the both routes is wrong? or are they
> both valid? Which one would you prefer, then?

I have to admit to getting a little confused looking at this initially,
but it WOULD seem that the route IS legal. However, the slip road being
used has obviously not been designed to handle traffic FROM the other
side of the road. Initially I just thought the direction was wrong on
the slip - and then I remembered to start driving on the wrong side of
the road ;)

I had a run around two customer sites yesterday. Both I know the route
from here and don't need the sta nav, but I have never been across
country between the two ( Worksop and Stockport ... ) so typed the post
code in and followed the route. As I was going up the M1 and then across
country, it became obvious that I had to take the instructions with even
more of a pinch of salt than usual ...

Bear right, and take exit often needed a little more information, such
as keep to outside lane, or take inside lane. On at least one occasion
   I was having to change lanes late because of strange instructions -
or no instructions at all, such as getting out of the inside lane
because it did not go straight one! The google map is a good example of
where a single way for a road does not provide enough information for
the route planner to produce a SAFE route. This is another area where
'micromapping' may be very much more preferable to trying to add routing
detail to a single way? Although in the case posted, the instructions
"keep to outside lane and wait for clear traffic in the three lanes
coming the other way" could probably be inferred, but I doubt that
stopping the the fast lane would be appreciated by other drivers?

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Jonathan Bennett
In reply to this post by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
> other side?
>

OSM also never tells you to turn 180 degrees across a motorway central
reservation, then drive off the side of a bridge and fall to the road 15
metres below:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Glasgow+Airport,+Abbotsinch,+Paisley,+Renfrewshire,+UK&daddr=Glasgow+Central+station&geocode=&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=55.85277,-4.26733&sspn=0.015273,0.029011&ie=UTF8&ll=55.855793,-4.268575&spn=0.007636,0.014505&t=h&z=16

--
Jonathan (Jonobennett)

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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

lsces
Jonathan Bennett wrote:

> Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
>> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
>> other side?
>>
>
> OSM also never tells you to turn 180 degrees across a motorway central
> reservation, then drive off the side of a bridge and fall to the road 15
> metres below:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Glasgow+Airport,+Abbotsinch,+Paisley,+Renfrewshire,+UK&daddr=Glasgow+Central+station&geocode=&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=55.85277,-4.26733&sspn=0.015273,0.029011&ie=UTF8&ll=55.855793,-4.268575&spn=0.007636,0.014505&t=h&z=16

Me thinks it is time for a hall of shame on the OSM site, with links
like this and hopefully the correct solution on OSM?

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Peteris Krisjanis
2009/9/18 Lester Caine <[hidden email]>:

> Jonathan Bennett wrote:
>> Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>>> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
>>> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
>>> other side?
>>>
>>
>> OSM also never tells you to turn 180 degrees across a motorway central
>> reservation, then drive off the side of a bridge and fall to the road 15
>> metres below:
>>
>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Glasgow+Airport,+Abbotsinch,+Paisley,+Renfrewshire,+UK&daddr=Glasgow+Central+station&geocode=&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=55.85277,-4.26733&sspn=0.015273,0.029011&ie=UTF8&ll=55.855793,-4.268575&spn=0.007636,0.014505&t=h&z=16
>
> Me thinks it is time for a hall of shame on the OSM site, with links
> like this and hopefully the correct solution on OSM?
>

I don't really think plastering commercial offerings as glitchy is
good idea PR and generally wise. Let's make sure OSM doesn't have such
errors better.

Cheers,
Peter.

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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Anthony-6
In reply to this post by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Anthony-6
In reply to this post by Maarten Deen
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Maarten Deen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Haha. Nice one. Maybe you can? There is no line in the middle of the road
preventing crossing the road (see also the car turning a little south). I do
assume there is a "no left turn" sign at the side of the road, but from this
angle, that sign is invisible ;)

It looks like the accepted procedure is to go down a little further and make a U-turn.  At least, that seems to be what this person is doing: http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=52.502479,13.276866&spn=0.000233,0.000596&t=h&z=21

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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Richard Fairhurst
In reply to this post by lsces
Lester Caine wrote:
> Me thinks it is time for a hall of shame on the OSM site, with
> links like this and hopefully the correct solution on OSM?

http://googlemapsfail.tumblr.com/

cheers
Richard
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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Matt Williams-2
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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Jeremy Adams
> 2009/9/17 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <[hidden email]>:
> > Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
> > traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
> > other side?
> >
> >
> <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%">http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%
> 9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll
> =52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13
> .277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
> >
> >
> http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&direction
> s=52.50880994711401,13.266667127609253,52.49494458610386,13.26784729957
> 5806&travel=car&styleId=1
>
> Here's a 'funny' example in the opposite direction. Compare
>
> http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=39.583466&lng=-
> 76.129246&zoom=13&directions=39.57989335828052,-
> 76.15070343017578,39.603175259215426,-
> 76.0719108581543&travel=car&styleId=1
>
> with
>
> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=N+Earlton+Rd+Ext&dad
> dr=39.602249,-76.071911&hl=en&geocode=FVDyWwId_gh2-
> w%3B&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=13&sll=39.582936,-
> 76.100922&sspn=0.093139,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=13
>
> The Cloudmade/OSM route is about 28 times longer. I expect it's just a
> simple missing connection but it make a big difference in the NY to
> Washington DC route (1.3 times longer).
>
> --
> Matt Williams
> http://milliams.com

There's a large chunk of one lane of I-95 missing.  I traced it from yahoo imagery in Potlach.

Such is the power of OSM.  :)

-Jeremy



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Re: Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

Liz
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Jeremy Adams wrote:
> > The Cloudmade/OSM route is about 28 times longer. I expect it's just a
> > simple missing connection but it make a big difference in the NY to
> > Washington DC route (1.3 times longer).
> >

>
> There's a large chunk of one lane of I-95 missing.  I traced it from yahoo
> imagery in Potlach.
>
> Such is the power of OSM.  :)

We've used oddities in routing programmes in the Au region to find those sort
of problems - it has been a very useful exercise of testing the data

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