Government Archives

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Government Archives

Warin
Just look at the key government the first thing to strike me was
archive, the key is meant to be used with office.

I don't think of government archives as offices... so what is in the
data base?

Well for Kew, UK
building=government with amenity=public_building

There are quite a few archives with public building;
Dublin, Ireland
Engu, Nigeria
New York, USA


Some are just buildings;
California, USA
Normandy, France
Cairo, Egypt
Rarotonga, Cook Islands
Abu Dhabi, UAE


Some are Libraries;
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Adelphi, USA


Some are museums;
Tokyo, Japan
Kabul, Afghanistan

Some are government offices;
Zomba, Malawi
Libreville, Gabon
Gaborone, Botswana
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
Delhi, India
Bangkok, Thailand

----------------------------
Would be nice to have some consistency?
Usually at least one of these per country, some times several depending on the size of the country.
I found the above by searching for 'national archives'.

I think Kew has it best;
  building=government with amenity=public_building

Humm that does not cover where there is one office you go to that is part of a larger building having other offices.. do these exist?
And if so .. are they really an office ... or more like a library or a museum? I think a library, they are documents, very few 'artefacts'.

Thoughts?

---------------
There will be some that have 'off site storage'. These will be buildings, perhaps best described as warehouses?
So building=warehouse, access=private could be best?
I think that is fairly clear.

===================
PS It seems that as I hunt down one problem I come across several more annoying ones ..
though they decrease in numbers in the data base. I think I should buy some blinkers and stop seeing these things!!!


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Re: Government Archives

Anton Klim
I used office=government government=archive for these.
Meaning of the office key is a bit wider for government offices, so I don’t really see an issue.
On your best practice example, I don’t remember the government value for the building key, not sure we should make that a thing. Amenity=public building still strikes me as one of the least descriptive tags in osm.
While it’s certainly not a museum, I’d also argue it’s no library, since you don’t have the same degree of access, and it’s often not about reading a document but rather making inquiries.

Ant

> 7 нояб. 2018 г., в 3:50, Warin <[hidden email]> написал(а):
>
> Just look at the key government the first thing to strike me was archive, the key is meant to be used with office.
>
> I don't think of government archives as offices... so what is in the data base?
>
> Well for Kew, UK
> building=government with amenity=public_building
>
> There are quite a few archives with public building;
> Dublin, Ireland
> Engu, Nigeria
> New York, USA
>
>
> Some are just buildings;
> California, USA
> Normandy, France
> Cairo, Egypt
> Rarotonga, Cook Islands
> Abu Dhabi, UAE
>
>
> Some are Libraries;
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Adelphi, USA
>
>
> Some are museums;
> Tokyo, Japan
> Kabul, Afghanistan
>
> Some are government offices;
> Zomba, Malawi
> Libreville, Gabon
> Gaborone, Botswana
> Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
> Delhi, India
> Bangkok, Thailand
>
> ----------------------------
> Would be nice to have some consistency?
> Usually at least one of these per country, some times several depending on the size of the country.
> I found the above by searching for 'national archives'.
>
> I think Kew has it best;
>  building=government with amenity=public_building
>
> Humm that does not cover where there is one office you go to that is part of a larger building having other offices.. do these exist?
> And if so .. are they really an office ... or more like a library or a museum? I think a library, they are documents, very few 'artefacts'.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> ---------------
> There will be some that have 'off site storage'. These will be buildings, perhaps best described as warehouses?
> So building=warehouse, access=private could be best?
> I think that is fairly clear.
>
> ===================
> PS It seems that as I hunt down one problem I come across several more annoying ones ..
> though they decrease in numbers in the data base. I think I should buy some blinkers and stop seeing these things!!!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: Government Archives

Allan Mustard
In reply to this post by Warin
An archive is a special government office. Not a library and not a museum.

I’ve used the National Archives in Washington, D.C., and in College Park, Maryland.  Government=archive is most accurate.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just look at the key government the first thing to strike me was archive, the key is meant to be used with office.
>
> I don't think of government archives as offices... so what is in the data base?
>
> Well for Kew, UK
> building=government with amenity=public_building
>
> There are quite a few archives with public building;
> Dublin, Ireland
> Engu, Nigeria
> New York, USA
>
>
> Some are just buildings;
> California, USA
> Normandy, France
> Cairo, Egypt
> Rarotonga, Cook Islands
> Abu Dhabi, UAE
>
>
> Some are Libraries;
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Adelphi, USA
>
>
> Some are museums;
> Tokyo, Japan
> Kabul, Afghanistan
>
> Some are government offices;
> Zomba, Malawi
> Libreville, Gabon
> Gaborone, Botswana
> Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
> Delhi, India
> Bangkok, Thailand
>
> ----------------------------
> Would be nice to have some consistency?
> Usually at least one of these per country, some times several depending on the size of the country.
> I found the above by searching for 'national archives'.
>
> I think Kew has it best;
>  building=government with amenity=public_building
>
> Humm that does not cover where there is one office you go to that is part of a larger building having other offices.. do these exist?
> And if so .. are they really an office ... or more like a library or a museum? I think a library, they are documents, very few 'artefacts'.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> ---------------
> There will be some that have 'off site storage'. These will be buildings, perhaps best described as warehouses?
> So building=warehouse, access=private could be best?
> I think that is fairly clear.
>
> ===================
> PS It seems that as I hunt down one problem I come across several more annoying ones ..
> though they decrease in numbers in the data base. I think I should buy some blinkers and stop seeing these things!!!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: Government Archives

marc marc
In reply to this post by Warin
Le 07. 11. 18 à 04:50, Warin a écrit :
>   building=government with amenity=public_building

imhoo this one is the worst !

building value is what the building look like.
what a government building look like ? no idea...
some are retail building,
some archives are in a industrial-look building, ...

amenity=public_building is depreciated
it is better to take a more precise tag, especially due
that not all government archives aren't open to the public.

I find that office=government + government=archive is
the most appropriate among the different proposals.
a museum could be appropriate if the archives are exhibited
to allow a visit and not simply stored for consultation
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Re: Government Archives

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 05:53, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:

amenity=public_building is depreciated
it is better to take a more precise tag, especially due
that not all government archives aren't open to the public.

& even if the public are allowed access, it will only be to the Reading Room / Information Desk, not to the storage area

So maybe

office=government
government=archive
access=no

for the entire building, with a additional node (perhaps library?) for the Reading Room +  access=public, with operating hours, contact details etc?

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Government Archives

Warin
On 08/11/18 09:05, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 05:53, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:

amenity=public_building is depreciated
it is better to take a more precise tag, especially due
that not all government archives aren't open to the public.

The 3 I know of are public access .. at least to the 'unclassified' stuff.

These have 'off site storage' where things that cannot be kept on the site are stored. If requested stuff in the 'off site storage'  is moved to the main facility. While the 'off site storage'  is not it self accessible the materials stored there are.
I'd classify these 'off site storage' areas as warehouses, access=no. But they are not the places people go to get access to stuff.

Which ones are not public access, other than these 'off site storage' warehouses?



& even if the public are allowed access, it will only be to the Reading Room / Information Desk, not to the storage area

So maybe

office=government
government=archive
access=no

for the entire building, with a additional node (perhaps library?) for the Reading Room +  access=public, with operating hours, contact details etc?

Most libraries don't have access to all areas ... will these too be marked access=no with a node for the 'reading room?

When you go into a retail store .. you also don't get access to all areas .. shall these too be marked access=no???

When you go to a police station - you don't have access to all areas ... access=no?

When you go to an art galley - you don't have access to all areas ... access=no?

And so on.



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Re: Government Archives

Warin
In reply to this post by Allan Mustard
On 08/11/18 02:20, Allan Mustard wrote:
> An archive is a special government office. Not a library and not a museum.

OSM says an office is a place that provides a 'service' - administrative or professional work is carried out - e.g. an architect, lawyer, accountant.

An archive is a place that stores old information.
Humm .. is giving me access to that information a service?

I think of an archive as more of a library than an office.

Not all libraries loan out the stuff they have, some only allow looking at it on the premises.
Libraries and archives store stuff so it can be found, archives have more of a preservation ethos, though some libraries also have that need.


>
> I’ve used the National Archives in Washington, D.C., and in College Park, Maryland.  Government=archive is most accurate.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 7, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Just look at the key government the first thing to strike me was archive, the key is meant to be used with office.
>>
>> I don't think of government archives as offices... so what is in the data base?
>>
>> Well for Kew, UK
>> building=government with amenity=public_building
>>
>> There are quite a few archives with public building;
>> Dublin, Ireland
>> Engu, Nigeria
>> New York, USA
>>
>>
>> Some are just buildings;
>> California, USA
>> Normandy, France
>> Cairo, Egypt
>> Rarotonga, Cook Islands
>> Abu Dhabi, UAE
>>
>>
>> Some are Libraries;
>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>> Adelphi, USA
>>
>>
>> Some are museums;
>> Tokyo, Japan
>> Kabul, Afghanistan
>>
>> Some are government offices;
>> Zomba, Malawi
>> Libreville, Gabon
>> Gaborone, Botswana
>> Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
>> Delhi, India
>> Bangkok, Thailand
>>
>> ----------------------------
>> Would be nice to have some consistency?
>> Usually at least one of these per country, some times several depending on the size of the country.
>> I found the above by searching for 'national archives'.
>>
>> I think Kew has it best;
>>   building=government with amenity=public_building
>>
>> Humm that does not cover where there is one office you go to that is part of a larger building having other offices.. do these exist?
>> And if so .. are they really an office ... or more like a library or a museum? I think a library, they are documents, very few 'artefacts'.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> ---------------
>> There will be some that have 'off site storage'. These will be buildings, perhaps best described as warehouses?
>> So building=warehouse, access=private could be best?
>> I think that is fairly clear.
>>
>> ===================
>> PS It seems that as I hunt down one problem I come across several more annoying ones ..
>> though they decrease in numbers in the data base. I think I should buy some blinkers and stop seeing these things!!!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging



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Re: Government Archives

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by marc marc


sent from a phone

> On 7. Nov 2018, at 20:52, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> building value is what the building look like.
> what a government building look like ? no idea...


it depends on the country, its political culture and history, the age and scope of the building, but government buildings will often be recognizable, particular buildings, there are different levels functionally and also according to the admin level, representative buildings like ministries and other headquarters, townhalls, but also more basic office buildings, etc.

I’m not saying you can recognize every government building from the outside, but this doesn’t imply the whole category wouldn’t make sense.

Cheers, Martin


> some are retail building,
> some archives are in a industrial-look building, ...

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Re: Government Archives

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Warin


sent from a phone

> On 8. Nov 2018, at 02:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> An archive is a place that stores old information.
> Humm .. is giving me access to that information a service?


both, storing historic information and providing access to it, could be seen as services.

Cheers, Martin
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Re: Government Archives

Allan Mustard

Most of what government consists of services.


On 11/10/2018 5:07 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

sent from a phone

On 8. Nov 2018, at 02:12, Warin [hidden email] wrote:

An archive is a place that stores old information.
Humm .. is giving me access to that information a service?

both, storing historic information and providing access to it, could be seen as services.

Cheers, Martin 
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