Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

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Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Nick Whitelegg-2
Been thinking about building further on the osmgarminmap XSLT
transformations and using them to develop some sort of GUI tool for
generating .img files from OSM data. Such a GUI tool would aim to have a
WYSIWYG interface where you can preview what the map would look like on
the GPS before actually uploading it.

I can see two ways of doing this:

1. A standalone tool which downloads data from OSM, allows the user to
configure the look and feel of the map, then upload the map to the GPS.
Advantages: could all be done in one step; Windows users would not even
need cgpsmapper and sendmap as these are available as a DLL which could
just be linked in.

Disadvantages: there is the need to download a standalone tool.


2. A web based approach; user views an area on OSM then selects "prepare
Garmin map". Some sort of AJAX interface could then be used to configure
the map visually before uploading to the Garmin.

Pros: mostly done through the web. My Freemap server already has the
cgpsmapper binary installed allowing generation of .img files (I asked the
cgpsmapper guy about whether that was ok and he said it was fine for non
commercial use); Freemap could act as a proxy, grabbing OSM data under my
login name.

Cons: user would still need to download sendmap to actually send the .img
to the device.

Any thoughts on these options?

Thanks,
Nick

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Jochen123
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 03:05:21PM +0000, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

> To: [hidden email]
> From: Nick Whitelegg <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:05:21 +0000
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data
>
> Been thinking about building further on the osmgarminmap XSLT
> transformations and using them to develop some sort of GUI tool for
> generating .img files from OSM data. Such a GUI tool would aim to have a
> WYSIWYG interface where you can preview what the map would look like on
> the GPS before actually uploading it.
>
> I can see two ways of doing this:
>
> 1. A standalone tool which downloads data from OSM, allows the user to
> configure the look and feel of the map, then upload the map to the GPS.
> Advantages: could all be done in one step; Windows users would not even
> need cgpsmapper and sendmap as these are available as a DLL which could
> just be linked in.
>
> Disadvantages: there is the need to download a standalone tool.
>
>
> 2. A web based approach; user views an area on OSM then selects "prepare
> Garmin map". Some sort of AJAX interface could then be used to configure
> the map visually before uploading to the Garmin.
>
> Pros: mostly done through the web. My Freemap server already has the
> cgpsmapper binary installed allowing generation of .img files (I asked the
> cgpsmapper guy about whether that was ok and he said it was fine for non
> commercial use); Freemap could act as a proxy, grabbing OSM data under my
> login name.

I just asked the cgpsmapper guy the same question. If you had written
your email an hour earlier...

I am not sure about the legal side here because OSM maps can be used
commercially even if you (or whoever would run the web service) doesn't
do it commercially. So I want to be really sure the cGPSmapper guy
understands what he is getting into.

On the other hand it might be an option to buy a commercial license
of cGPSmapper for this web service. We would only have to do it once.

> Cons: user would still need to download sendmap to actually send the .img
> to the device.
>
> Any thoughts on these options?

Whatever we do, the user has to download something, either the
application or sendmap. So that doesn't change anything. But it would be
more effort to write a Windows/Mac/Linux application than to do it as a
web service. Especially when you think of all the upgrade issues.

So I would definitely go with the web service. In fact I could imagine
the main OSM slippy map having a button which says: "Download this map
for your Garmin". When you click on that it will send you to your web
service where you can either just use the default settings and click on
the download button or you can change some settings before doing that.

I am not sure about the options stuff. XSL transformations are slow. And
cGPSmapper also needs some time. So I'd prefer we had preconverted stuff
which we only have to send out. Maybe we can do both. Prerenderd maps
for the usual options and if you have special needs you'll have to wait
for the map to get converted.

Jochen
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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Andrew Turner
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2
This is a really great project Nick - thanks for working on it. It
will be great to upload maps to my garmin.

One major request I would like to request would be to consider options
for non-Windows users. Right now there isn't an option other than
running a Virtualization/Emulator. Perhaps this is beyond the effort
you were considering - but still something worthwhile. :)

Thanks,
Andrew

On 12/20/06, Nick Whitelegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Been thinking about building further on the osmgarminmap XSLT
> transformations and using them to develop some sort of GUI tool for
> generating .img files from OSM data. Such a GUI tool would aim to have a
> WYSIWYG interface where you can preview what the map would look like on
> the GPS before actually uploading it.
>

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Jochen123
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 10:50:05AM -0500, Andrew Turner wrote:
> This is a really great project Nick - thanks for working on it. It
> will be great to upload maps to my garmin.
>
> One major request I would like to request would be to consider options
> for non-Windows users. Right now there isn't an option other than
> running a Virtualization/Emulator. Perhaps this is beyond the effort
> you were considering - but still something worthwhile. :)

Did you mean non-Linux user? :-)

As the stuff is all XSLT it should work on any system. XSL transformers
are available everywhere and cGPSmapper is also. But it is a bit hacky
at the moment, no question about that.

Jochen
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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Robert Hart-2
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2
> Any thoughts on these options?

How about:

3. as plugin(?) to JOSM.

Advantages: we get a GUI and most of the rest of the code for free. Many
OSM users are familiar with JOSM already.

Disadvantages: still requires download/install, and may not suit
non-contributing OSM users.


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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Robert Hart-2
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2
> How about:
>
> 3. as plugin(?) to JOSM.
>
> Advantages: we get a GUI and most of the rest of the code for free.
Many
> OSM users are familiar with JOSM already.
>
> Disadvantages: still requires download/install, and may not suit
> non-contributing OSM users.

Disadvantages: potential license conflict between JOSM and cGPSmapper.

Rob



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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Nick Whitelegg-2
In reply to this post by Jochen123
>I am not sure about the options stuff. XSL transformations are slow. And
>cGPSmapper also needs some time. So I'd prefer we had preconverted stuff
>which we only have to send out. Maybe we can do both. Prerenderd maps
>for the usual options and if you have special needs you'll have to wait
>for the map to get converted.

The issue with pre-rendering is up-to-dateness of the information.

However if it could be done either as a cron job or as a
"OSMGarminMap@home" type approach, maybe where people render a given area
on their machines periodically (as a cron job if they have their computers
on all the time, if not as and when) and upload to a server, this could
lessen the issue.  I'd be happy to use the freemap server as the "manager"
server for this.

I can envisage offering maps for defined areas e.g. cities or countryside
areas. Maybe individuals through an OSMGarmin@home type approach could
choose an area e.g. someone could do London, someone the New Forest (uk
countryside area) etc?

Nick





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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Jochen123
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 03:05:21PM +0000, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> Cons: user would still need to download sendmap to actually send the .img
> to the device.

I just played around with my 60CSx a bit. The map, that I uploaded with
sendmap shows up as /Garmin/gmapsupp.img on the device if I mount it as
USB storage. If I upload two maps at the same time there is still only
one .img file, but I can enable and disable the maps separately.

I can also use USB storage mode to copy an .img File over. But it seems
that it must be named /Garmin/gmapsupp.img, and only one map is
possible that way.

So me might be able to work without the sendmap program. If only on
units that support that USB storage option.

Jochen
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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Joerg Ostertag (OSM Tettnang/Germany)
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2

> Cons: user would still need to download sendmap to actually send the .img
> to the device.
>
> Any thoughts on these options?

Can you use the Garmin tools (MapSource)to send the .img file to the GPS too?
Because if yes, it probably makes it a little bit easier for many people.

--
Jörg (Germany, Munich)

http://www.ostertag.name/
TeamSpeak2: ts2.ostertag.name, user: tweety, Channel: "GPS Drive"
irc://irc.oftc.net/#osm
Tel.: +49 89 420950304

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Nick Whitelegg-2
In reply to this post by Jochen123
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 03:05:21PM +0000, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
>> Cons: user would still need to download sendmap to actually send the
.img
>> to the device.

>I just played around with my 60CSx a bit. The map, that I uploaded with
>sendmap shows up as /Garmin/gmapsupp.img on the device if I mount it as
>USB storage. If I upload two maps at the same time there is still only
>one .img file, but I can enable and disable the maps separately.

On second thoughts I'm not sure whether pre-rendered maps are actually the
way to go. I'd imagine only a subset of OSM users would have devices
capable of displaying Garmin maps, so trying to a) either generate the
maps on the server or b) store the maps on the server might not be the
best idea.

It might be better instead to run cgpsmapper client side using a custom
application - for one thing it would also reduce the possibility of
licencing issues with installing cgpsmapper on a server. Basically, if
someone generated a map client side for commercial use using the
non-commercial cgpsmapper it would be their responsibility.

Nick





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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Christoph Eckert
In reply to this post by Jochen123

> On the other hand it might be an option to buy a commercial license
> of cGPSmapper for this web service. We would only have to do it once.

...depending on the license agreement :) .

[...]

> Whatever we do, the user has to download something, either the
> application or sendmap. So that doesn't change anything. But it would
> be more effort to write a Windows/Mac/Linux application than to do it
> as a web service. Especially when you think of all the upgrade
> issues.

Sure, and using a web service would be more straightforward for the
user. Anyway I'd like to mention a Qt4 app I just noticed a few days
before:
http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=49378


Best,

ce

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Nick Whitelegg
On Wednesday 20 Dec 2006 21:28, Christoph Eckert wrote:

> > On the other hand it might be an option to buy a commercial license
> > of cGPSmapper for this web service. We would only have to do it once.
>
> ...depending on the license agreement :) .
>
> [...]
>
> > Whatever we do, the user has to download something, either the
> > application or sendmap. So that doesn't change anything. But it would
> > be more effort to write a Windows/Mac/Linux application than to do it
> > as a web service. Especially when you think of all the upgrade
> > issues.
>
> Sure, and using a web service would be more straightforward for the
> user. Anyway I'd like to mention a Qt4 app I just noticed a few days
> before:
> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=49378
>

This looks very interesting. I've tried downloading and compiling it. It seems
to be in very early stages of development (I tried importing a .img file and
it doesn't do anything) but it looks like it's in rapid development.

I think it would be worth contacting the guy developing it, particularly to
see if he's interested in developing a library for creating IMG files, that
could be re-used in other applications (either a web based or GUI based OSM
to Garmin converter, for instance).

Nick

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Jochen123
In reply to this post by Jochen123
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 04:48:43PM +0100, Jochen Topf wrote:
> I am not sure about the legal side here because OSM maps can be used
> commercially even if you (or whoever would run the web service) doesn't
> do it commercially. So I want to be really sure the cGPSmapper guy
> understands what he is getting into.

Replying to myself here, because I thought of another angle: The free
version of cGPSmapper doesn't allow you to set a copyright on the map.
Instead it puts a notice about cGPSmapper in there. If you distribute
that file it would violate the OSM Creative Commons Copyright, because
you must mention OSM. So I think we would either have to find a different
way of putting the copyright in there or we have to buy cGPSmapper.

Jochen
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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Jochen123
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 08:59:25AM +0000, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> > Sure, and using a web service would be more straightforward for the
> > user. Anyway I'd like to mention a Qt4 app I just noticed a few days
> > before:
> > http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=49378
> >
>
> This looks very interesting. I've tried downloading and compiling it. It seems
> to be in very early stages of development (I tried importing a .img file and
> it doesn't do anything) but it looks like it's in rapid development.

I had the same problem and have just wrote to the author asking for
help.

(Also see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:OSMGarminMap)

Jochen
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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Steve Ratcliffe-2
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2
Hello,

I have also been writing a program to convert OSM data to a Garmin map. It
works in one step, taking a .osm file and producing a .img file directly.

It has only been working as of two days ago, so there are a number of
limitations where things are not finished, but it meets my purpose of
knowing where mapping is needed just fine already.

It is released under the GPL and does not claim additional licensing
restrictions on the maps produced, so might in the future be suitable for
creating a web service from; indeed I'd had thought of doing just that.

I'd not wanted to release it yet, but if anyone wants to take a peek,
then it can be found at http://www.parabola.me.uk/mkgmap/

..Steve

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Jochen123
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 01:30:14PM +0000, Steve Ratcliffe wrote:

> I have also been writing a program to convert OSM data to a Garmin map. It
> works in one step, taking a .osm file and producing a .img file directly.
>
> It has only been working as of two days ago, so there are a number of
> limitations where things are not finished, but it meets my purpose of
> knowing where mapping is needed just fine already.
>
> It is released under the GPL and does not claim additional licensing
> restrictions on the maps produced, so might in the future be suitable for
> creating a web service from; indeed I'd had thought of doing just that.
>
> I'd not wanted to release it yet, but if anyone wants to take a peek,
> then it can be found at http://www.parabola.me.uk/mkgmap/

Cool!

I have added a link to this page.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Map_On_Garmin#See_also

Jochen
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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Nick Whitelegg-2
I'm thinking that all these various strands could develop into a
generalised application for creating IMG maps from free data sources.
These could include not only OSM maps but also other free data such as
SRTM data - what would be very useful for walkers would be maps showing
contours as well as OSM data.

Nick

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Christoph Eckert

> These could include not only OSM maps but also other free data such
> as SRTM data

...and there's not only the garmin img format. Was it possible to
develop an application which can output other formats as well as
garmin?


ce


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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Nick Whitelegg
On Thursday 21 Dec 2006 19:10, Christoph Eckert wrote:
> > These could include not only OSM maps but also other free data such
> > as SRTM data
>
> ...and there's not only the garmin img format. Was it possible to
> develop an application which can output other formats as well as
> garmin?
>

Someone suggested an osm-to-shapefile converter earlier this week. Maybe it
could all be part of the one application - a generalised osm-to-other-formats
converter.

Nick

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Re: Graphical generation of Garmin maps from OSM data

Kristian Thy
On Thu, Dec 21, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> Someone suggested an osm-to-shapefile converter earlier this week.

I'm working on an osm2shp script in Pyhton/OGR, but the polygons are
giving me a hard time. (Plus I also had to work overtime - who in their
right mind sets a deadline for 2pm @ Dec 22?) :)

\\kristian
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