Grocery stores in North America

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Grocery stores in North America

Bill & Kathy Patterson
How would you tag a grocery store in North America when it's too small to be a supermarket.  The OSM guidelines use the European differentiation between grocery store and greengrocer, but on this side of the pond the latter is very seldom seen and the two functions are generally rolled into one.  Do I just go with feature=retail_building and the shop=grocer tag, ignoring the European convention? 

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Re: Grocery stores in North America

David Edge
In the UK a grocer will usually sell fruit and veg  but a greengrocer will only sell fruit and veg. So for me grocer would imply some fruit and veg. 

d. 

On 21 Apr 2015, at 19:38, Bill & Kathy Patterson <[hidden email]> wrote:

How would you tag a grocery store in North America when it's too small to be a supermarket.  The OSM guidelines use the European differentiation between grocery store and greengrocer, but on this side of the pond the latter is very seldom seen and the two functions are generally rolled into one.  Do I just go with feature=retail_building and the shop=grocer tag, ignoring the European convention? 
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Re: Grocery stores in North America

Dan S
In reply to this post by Bill & Kathy Patterson
Hi,

If I understand right, you're referring to a shop that sells roughly
the same stuff as a supermarket does, but small. I would always tag
that as shop=convenience. Have a look at this description and see if
you agree:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dconvenience

Best
Dan

2015-04-21 19:38 GMT+01:00 Bill & Kathy Patterson
<[hidden email]>:

> How would you tag a grocery store in North America when it's too small to be
> a supermarket.  The OSM guidelines use the European differentiation between
> grocery store and greengrocer, but on this side of the pond the latter is
> very seldom seen and the two functions are generally rolled into one.  Do I
> just go with feature=retail_building and the shop=grocer tag, ignoring the
> European convention?
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>

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Re: Grocery stores in North America

David Edge
Thanks Dan

Yes, that would be it. True grocers are few and far between here - about as common as milliners and far less common than picture framers.  The Wiki suggests that 'grocery' is probably a mistake and in UK that's correct, convenience stores (or Corner Shops in the local parlance) much more common.

So the answer to the OPs question is convenience store.

d.

> On 21 Apr 2015, at 19:45, Dan S <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> If I understand right, you're referring to a shop that sells roughly
> the same stuff as a supermarket does, but small. I would always tag
> that as shop=convenience. Have a look at this description and see if
> you agree:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dconvenience
>
> Best
> Dan
>
> 2015-04-21 19:38 GMT+01:00 Bill & Kathy Patterson
> <[hidden email]>:
>> How would you tag a grocery store in North America when it's too small to be
>> a supermarket.  The OSM guidelines use the European differentiation between
>> grocery store and greengrocer, but on this side of the pond the latter is
>> very seldom seen and the two functions are generally rolled into one.  Do I
>> just go with feature=retail_building and the shop=grocer tag, ignoring the
>> European convention?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> newbies mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

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Re: Grocery stores in North America

John Werner
In reply to this post by Bill & Kathy Patterson
I've use the tag "shop=supermarket" for both quite large and fairly small places.  

One place I tend to check is the taginfo page for OSM.  It shows the tags in the current map and where they are used.  

Here's the page for  shop | Keys | OpenStreetMap Taginfo (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/shop#values)

From there, it looks like "grocer" is a fairly uncommon (just 14 hits for "shop=grocer") as compared to "grocery" (671) or "greengrocer" (13+k).   "supermarket" comes in at 211+k.

Based on that, I would probably stick with "supermarket" as my first choice, then move to "grocery."

 
- John
--
John Werner
http://www.snowtire.info
http://www.frontiernet.net/~werner/



On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 2:41 PM, Bill & Kathy Patterson <[hidden email]> wrote:


How would you tag a grocery store in North America when it's too small to be a supermarket.  The OSM guidelines use the European differentiation between grocery store and greengrocer, but on this side of the pond the latter is very seldom seen and the two functions are generally rolled into one.  Do I just go with feature=retail_building and the shop=grocer tag, ignoring the European convention? 

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Re: Grocery stores in North America

Mike N.
In reply to this post by Bill & Kathy Patterson
On 4/21/2015 2:38 PM, Bill & Kathy Patterson wrote:
> How would you tag a grocery store in North America when it's too small
> to be a supermarket.

  I agree that there doesn't seem to be an exact tag, but a convenience
shop might fit

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dconvenience

   (even though it probably doesn't carry the expected mix of 90% junk
food, 5% actual food, 5% miscellaneous and no fresh produce)



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Re: Grocery stores in North America

Bill & Kathy Patterson
In reply to this post by Dan S
Thanks for the replies, Dan S and David Edge, and John Werner.  I was almost ready to Send a reply to Dan's response and David's first response, when I checked the inbox and found David's 2nd and John's.

I forgot to comment on Convenience_Store in my post, but don't think that it applies because it has a generally understood meaning here that is really smaller than the store of which I'm thinking.  I was leaning towards David's solution, which finds the OSM definition of grocery too limited, but now I'll go with John's.

Actually in the urbanized area in which I live, there is so much overlap now that it's getting hard to differentiate.  Almost all filling stations (gas or petrol) are self-serve, and as they are being updated, convenience stores are being added.  And the pharmacies are putting in coolers and carrying dairy products and groceries, but not fresh produce.  The small grocery stores that I speak of are fast disappearing, except for specialty ethnic ones, but they are still common in more rural areas without the population to support a supermarket.

A special thanks, John, for the TagInfo link.  That looks as though it will come in very useful in future.

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