Help with licensing

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Help with licensing

Satuim
Help with licensing

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.

It is my understanding that the entity does not need to provide/change the license, but simply say it is OK for ODbL's slightly different terms, Was I misunderstood in my email? what advice can be given here? I sent the cover letter/waiver here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3PN5zfbzThqeTdWR1l3SzJVcTg/view

I do know of another dataset, but am wondering if I could bounce back from this rejection? If not what could I send to help? Is there something more persuasive that can be sent, Like anecdotes from local members


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Re: Help with licensing

Andrew Davidson-3
It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:


On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.



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Re: Help with licensing

Jonathon Rossi
I also want to make use of the QLD DCDB and was going to start a new thread on the mailing list about it today to work out how to get out of this stalemate after Andrew Davidson informed me last week.

It appears Andrew Harvey just recently had great luck with Victoria DELWP signing the waiver and on a corporate letterhead. AndrewH was that luck and are there any insights that you could assist us with here that might help us convince QLD DNRM?

Jono

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM Andrew Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:


On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.


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Re: Help with licensing

Jonathon Rossi
> The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.

Am I missing something, I didn't think we were asking anyone to relicense their data under the ODbL, just to accept our understanding of one clause (Section 3(a)(1)) and waive another (Section 2(a)(5)(B)). Are DNRM misunderstanding what we are requesting?

The second line of the waiver says:
> [Entity] waives Section 2(a)(5)(B) of the CC BY 4.0 license as to OpenStreetMap and its users with the understanding that the Open Database License 1.0 requires open access or parallel distribution of OpenStreetMap data.

Section 2(a)(5)(B) says:
> No downstream restrictions. You may not offer or impose any additional or different terms or conditions on, or apply any Effective Technological Measures to, the Licensed Material if doing so restricts exercise of the Licensed Rights by any recipient of the Licensed Material.

Aren't we (OSMF) just asking the copyright owner to waive their rights to this clause to allow downstream users of the collective OSM data so that for example it could be put on a Bluray disc. Their data would still be CCBY licensed, and the OSM data would be a mix of ODbL and CCBY licensed data?

/cc Simon Poole

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:19 PM Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
I also want to make use of the QLD DCDB and was going to start a new thread on the mailing list about it today to work out how to get out of this stalemate after Andrew Davidson informed me last week.

It appears Andrew Harvey just recently had great luck with Victoria DELWP signing the waiver and on a corporate letterhead. AndrewH was that luck and are there any insights that you could assist us with here that might help us convince QLD DNRM?

Jono

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM Andrew Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:


On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.


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Re: Help with licensing

Satuim

From Daniel Silk on the Slack chat for Australian mapping:

> I would just reply and reiterate that they do not need to provide the data under a different license, but simply sign a waiver that clarifies some minor license differences and grants explicit permission for use.

> Is there a list of government departments that have signed one of these waivers?

> I work for LINZ... ours is on the OSM wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/8/83/OSM_waiver_-_LINZ.pdf

>You could also interpret "It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data." as permission.


On 19/01/18 15:38, Jonathon Rossi wrote:
> The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.

Am I missing something, I didn't think we were asking anyone to relicense their data under the ODbL, just to accept our understanding of one clause (Section 3(a)(1)) and waive another (Section 2(a)(5)(B)). Are DNRM misunderstanding what we are requesting?

The second line of the waiver says:
> [Entity] waives Section 2(a)(5)(B) of the CC BY 4.0 license as to OpenStreetMap and its users with the understanding that the Open Database License 1.0 requires open access or parallel distribution of OpenStreetMap data.

Section 2(a)(5)(B) says:
> No downstream restrictions. You may not offer or impose any additional or different terms or conditions on, or apply any Effective Technological Measures to, the Licensed Material if doing so restricts exercise of the Licensed Rights by any recipient of the Licensed Material.

Aren't we (OSMF) just asking the copyright owner to waive their rights to this clause to allow downstream users of the collective OSM data so that for example it could be put on a Bluray disc. Their data would still be CCBY licensed, and the OSM data would be a mix of ODbL and CCBY licensed data?

/cc Simon Poole

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:19 PM Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
I also want to make use of the QLD DCDB and was going to start a new thread on the mailing list about it today to work out how to get out of this stalemate after Andrew Davidson informed me last week.

It appears Andrew Harvey just recently had great luck with Victoria DELWP signing the waiver and on a corporate letterhead. AndrewH was that luck and are there any insights that you could assist us with here that might help us convince QLD DNRM?

Jono

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM Andrew Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:


On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.


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Talk-au mailing list
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


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Re: Help with licensing

Andrew Harvey
In reply to this post by Jonathon Rossi
There's no guaranteed way, but there are a few different ways to approach it. The OSMF provided templates do a good job of explaining the reasoning.

It's never a quick process, always involves a lot of back and forth. Plus the more agencies complete the waiver the easier it gets to convince agency X to agree.

On Fri, 19 Jan 2018, at 4:19 PM, Jonathon Rossi wrote:
I also want to make use of the QLD DCDB and was going to start a new thread on the mailing list about it today to work out how to get out of this stalemate after Andrew Davidson informed me last week.

It appears Andrew Harvey just recently had great luck with Victoria DELWP signing the waiver and on a corporate letterhead. AndrewH was that luck and are there any insights that you could assist us with here that might help us convince QLD DNRM?

Jono

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM Andrew Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:


On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.


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Talk-au mailing list


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Re: Help with licensing

Satuim

>It's never a quick process, always involves a lot of back and forth. Plus the more agencies complete the waiver the easier it gets to convince agency X to agree.

I think a government data collecting group in NSW has agreed, and New Zealand's one also. Would these apply to a QLD Resources department?


On 19/01/18 19:23, Andrew Harvey wrote:
There's no guaranteed way, but there are a few different ways to approach it. The OSMF provided templates do a good job of explaining the reasoning.

It's never a quick process, always involves a lot of back and forth. Plus the more agencies complete the waiver the easier it gets to convince agency X to agree.

On Fri, 19 Jan 2018, at 4:19 PM, Jonathon Rossi wrote:
I also want to make use of the QLD DCDB and was going to start a new thread on the mailing list about it today to work out how to get out of this stalemate after Andrew Davidson informed me last week.

It appears Andrew Harvey just recently had great luck with Victoria DELWP signing the waiver and on a corporate letterhead. AndrewH was that luck and are there any insights that you could assist us with here that might help us convince QLD DNRM?

Jono

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM Andrew Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:


On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.


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Talk-au mailing list



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Re: Help with licensing

SimonPoole
In reply to this post by Jonathon Rossi

There was some movement in QLD right at the end of last year, but I haven't heard back from the contact after an initial exchange. I pinged them yesterday to see if we can do anything more etc.,  but as has been pointed out these things tend to take some time (which  is universally true not just in  Australia).

Simon


Am 19.01.2018 um 06:38 schrieb Jonathon Rossi:
> The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.

Am I missing something, I didn't think we were asking anyone to relicense their data under the ODbL, just to accept our understanding of one clause (Section 3(a)(1)) and waive another (Section 2(a)(5)(B)). Are DNRM misunderstanding what we are requesting?

The second line of the waiver says:
> [Entity] waives Section 2(a)(5)(B) of the CC BY 4.0 license as to OpenStreetMap and its users with the understanding that the Open Database License 1.0 requires open access or parallel distribution of OpenStreetMap data.

Section 2(a)(5)(B) says:
> No downstream restrictions. You may not offer or impose any additional or different terms or conditions on, or apply any Effective Technological Measures to, the Licensed Material if doing so restricts exercise of the Licensed Rights by any recipient of the Licensed Material.

Aren't we (OSMF) just asking the copyright owner to waive their rights to this clause to allow downstream users of the collective OSM data so that for example it could be put on a Bluray disc. Their data would still be CCBY licensed, and the OSM data would be a mix of ODbL and CCBY licensed data?

/cc Simon Poole

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:19 PM Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
I also want to make use of the QLD DCDB and was going to start a new thread on the mailing list about it today to work out how to get out of this stalemate after Andrew Davidson informed me last week.

It appears Andrew Harvey just recently had great luck with Victoria DELWP signing the waiver and on a corporate letterhead. AndrewH was that luck and are there any insights that you could assist us with here that might help us convince QLD DNRM?

Jono

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM Andrew Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:


On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey everyone,

I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).

Here is the response I got:

The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.


_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


_______________________________________________
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

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Re: Help with licensing

Andrew Harvey-3
I followed up again with DNRM in QLD both via email and phone.

> The Department’s position has not changed since your previous enquiry.

> Consistent with Queensland Government policy, our data is provided under a CC:BY 4.0 Licence.  The department will not provide the data under an ODbl licence.  It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data and we do not accept that OpenStreetMap cannot use our data under the CC:BY licence.

I tried to get across that they can continue to license their data CC
BY and don't need to license it under the ODbL, we just need that
waiver to have a common understanding around the attribution chain and
the fact that ODbL allows parallel distribution of locked up formats,
to no avail.

So we're still not able to use the DNRM data in OSM.


On Fri, 19 Jan 2018 at 23:06, Simon Poole <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> There was some movement in QLD right at the end of last year, but I haven't heard back from the contact after an initial exchange. I pinged them yesterday to see if we can do anything more etc.,  but as has been pointed out these things tend to take some time (which  is universally true not just in  Australia).
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 19.01.2018 um 06:38 schrieb Jonathon Rossi:
>
> > The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.
>
> Am I missing something, I didn't think we were asking anyone to relicense their data under the ODbL, just to accept our understanding of one clause (Section 3(a)(1)) and waive another (Section 2(a)(5)(B)). Are DNRM misunderstanding what we are requesting?
>
> The second line of the waiver says:
> > [Entity] waives Section 2(a)(5)(B) of the CC BY 4.0 license as to OpenStreetMap and its users with the understanding that the Open Database License 1.0 requires open access or parallel distribution of OpenStreetMap data.
>
> Section 2(a)(5)(B) says:
> > No downstream restrictions. You may not offer or impose any additional or different terms or conditions on, or apply any Effective Technological Measures to, the Licensed Material if doing so restricts exercise of the Licensed Rights by any recipient of the Licensed Material.
>
> Aren't we (OSMF) just asking the copyright owner to waive their rights to this clause to allow downstream users of the collective OSM data so that for example it could be put on a Bluray disc. Their data would still be CCBY licensed, and the OSM data would be a mix of ODbL and CCBY licensed data?
>
> /cc Simon Poole
>
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:19 PM Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I also want to make use of the QLD DCDB and was going to start a new thread on the mailing list about it today to work out how to get out of this stalemate after Andrew Davidson informed me last week.
>>
>> It appears Andrew Harvey just recently had great luck with Victoria DELWP signing the waiver and on a corporate letterhead. AndrewH was that luck and are there any insights that you could assist us with here that might help us convince QLD DNRM?
>>
>> Jono
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM Andrew Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's a known problem with a difference of opinion between the Queensland Government and OSM as to licence compatibility. See this thread for example:
>>>
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/talk-au@.../msg10883.html
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Satuim <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I recently asked for permission to use a CC-BY 4.0 dataset but got rejected. The dataset I want to use is fairly important (boundaries for suburbs and counties for QLD).
>>>>
>>>> Here is the response I got:
>>>>
>>>> The Department will not provide the data under an Open Database license. It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

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