House number ranges that are only odd or even

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House number ranges that are only odd or even

Mat Attlee
Is there a way when specifying a range for addr:housenumber to indicate it's only for even or odd numbers?

When walking around my local area I have come across some blocks that will have a sign indicating for example house numbers 1 to 21 odd only. Similarly when there is just one building drawn for a whole street of terrace houses the number range will only be or odd even depending on the side of the road.

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Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

Jeremy Harris
On 10/12/2020 15:37, Mat Attlee wrote:
> Is there a way when specifying a range for addr:housenumber to indicate
> it's only for even or odd numbers?

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr:interpolation#values
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Cheers,
   Jeremy

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Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

Ken Kilfedder
Isn't addr:interpolation only for ranges of housenumbers on an interpolation way?

In this case the question seems to be about a residential building containing only even numbered units?  

If you just say addr:housenumber=2-20, it could mean that 19 is included.  If you say addr:housenumber=2;4;6;8;10;12;14;16;18;20 - that might be correct, but it seems a bit inefficient.

---
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On Thu, 10 Dec 2020, at 3:43 PM, Jeremy Harris wrote:

> On 10/12/2020 15:37, Mat Attlee wrote:
> > Is there a way when specifying a range for addr:housenumber to indicate
> > it's only for even or odd numbers?
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr:interpolation#values
> --
> Cheers,
>    Jeremy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>

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Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

Dan S
I use addr:interpolation on single items as in Mat's example, just as
much as on an explicit "interpolation way". It seems to me the concept
is perfectly adaptable. For example, an address-search-engine should
have no trouble digesting these two almost-the-same uses of
addr:interpolation.

Cheers
Dan

Op do 10 dec. 2020 om 16:04 schreef Ken Kilfedder <[hidden email]>:

>
> Isn't addr:interpolation only for ranges of housenumbers on an interpolation way?
>
> In this case the question seems to be about a residential building containing only even numbered units?
>
> If you just say addr:housenumber=2-20, it could mean that 19 is included.  If you say addr:housenumber=2;4;6;8;10;12;14;16;18;20 - that might be correct, but it seems a bit inefficient.
>
> ---
> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
> [hidden email]
>
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020, at 3:43 PM, Jeremy Harris wrote:
> > On 10/12/2020 15:37, Mat Attlee wrote:
> > > Is there a way when specifying a range for addr:housenumber to indicate
> > > it's only for even or odd numbers?
> >
> > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr:interpolation#values
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >    Jeremy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

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FWD: Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Mat Attlee

Date: 10 Dec 2020, 18:34
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] House number ranges that are only odd or even

This issue also came to my mind. addr:interpolation on a building doesn't seem appropriate. JOSM, for example, renders it as a dotted line around the edge of the building (as if that is the addr:interpolation way).  Clearly then, addr:interpolation isn't meant for buildings.

Currently, I do 1;3;5;7;9 (here is an example of this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/222193468/history [old versions of this building have that tagging scheme])

Probably, a proposal needs to be created to either create a new tag or change addr:interpolation so that its meaning is different on closed and open ways.

I think the latter solution is better, as people probably already tag buildings with an addr:interpolation.

Thanks,
IpswichMapper

--


10 Dec 2020, 15:37 by [hidden email]:
Is there a way when specifying a range for addr:housenumber to indicate it's only for even or odd numbers?

When walking around my local area I have come across some blocks that will have a sign indicating for example house numbers 1 to 21 odd only. Similarly when there is just one building drawn for a whole street of terrace houses the number range will only be or odd even depending on the side of the road.



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Re: FWD: Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

Dan S
That JOSM rendering is just a limitation in JOSM's rendering - I'd
imagine it was unplanned.

I'd be happy to see that second solution (i.e. make clear the
interpretation of the tag, for closed ways). I don't necessarily think
it needs a proposal/vote but I'd be happy to see it happen!

Best
Dan


Op do 10 dec. 2020 om 18:37 schreef ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB
<[hidden email]>:

>
>
> Date: 10 Dec 2020, 18:34
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] House number ranges that are only odd or even
>
> This issue also came to my mind. addr:interpolation on a building doesn't seem appropriate. JOSM, for example, renders it as a dotted line around the edge of the building (as if that is the addr:interpolation way).  Clearly then, addr:interpolation isn't meant for buildings.
>
> Currently, I do 1;3;5;7;9 (here is an example of this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/222193468/history [old versions of this building have that tagging scheme])
>
> Probably, a proposal needs to be created to either create a new tag or change addr:interpolation so that its meaning is different on closed and open ways.
>
> I think the latter solution is better, as people probably already tag buildings with an addr:interpolation.
>
> Thanks,
> IpswichMapper
>
> --
>
>
> 10 Dec 2020, 15:37 by [hidden email]:
>
> Is there a way when specifying a range for addr:housenumber to indicate it's only for even or odd numbers?
>
> When walking around my local area I have come across some blocks that will have a sign indicating for example house numbers 1 to 21 odd only. Similarly when there is just one building drawn for a whole street of terrace houses the number range will only be or odd even depending on the side of the road.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

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Re: FWD: Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

sk53.osm
addr:interpolation used on single buildings has certainly been our standard practice in the East Midlands for 9 or 10 years now. It's now often used in conjunction with addr:flats or addr:unit, but also with addr:housenumber, which I think was the first usage. It was obvious early on that multiple addresses in one building needed to be distinguished from buildings with a single address formed from multiple housenumbers (17-21 Xxxx Road). addr:interpolation not only fuflils that role, but also allows the actual number of addresses to be notated.

Extensive parts of St Anns, an inner city suburb of Nottingham redeveloped in the late 1970s are precisely like this, with blocks containing flats usually 6-7 units of 3 flats (one on the ground floor & 2 spanning 2 floors above). This works fine, is understandable by mappers and relatively easy to parse for data consumers. It's use arose from the circumstances of mapping every address in a reasonably wide area. I think it's still true to say that only a few places in Britain have extensive address mapping (& not hugely different from this map I created back in 2014).

Addressing elsewhere in Europe is likely to be different from the UK, and I see little value in asking people unfamiliar with the nitty gritty of capturing UK addresses for their opinions on the best approach. The current wiki page states that there is no consensus on the matter. In the same manner I will leave it to Spaniards to worry about how to map floor and door (common address components there, although surprisingly widely used on OSM) and inhabitants of former parts of the Austro-Hungarian empire to worry about conscription numbers (context from German wikipedia). However, I would regard the Dutch & Polish communities approach of adding individual nodes for each address in the building irrespective of the actual address position outline as incorrect mapping in the UK. In both cases, and probably also in Denmark, this is most likely because addresses have been imported from a national database and this allows incremental updates from the same source. The problem with this is that it prevents classic OSM iterative refinement, such as accurate mapping for indoor usage, for instance to enable guidance for blind people.

tl;dr: addr:interpolation on single buildings works fine, has been in use in the UK for about 10 year; there's significant variation in address mapping between communities.

Jerry

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 19:15, Dan S <[hidden email]> wrote:
That JOSM rendering is just a limitation in JOSM's rendering - I'd
imagine it was unplanned.

I'd be happy to see that second solution (i.e. make clear the
interpretation of the tag, for closed ways). I don't necessarily think
it needs a proposal/vote but I'd be happy to see it happen!

Best
Dan


Op do 10 dec. 2020 om 18:37 schreef ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB
<[hidden email]>:
>
>
> Date: 10 Dec 2020, 18:34
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] House number ranges that are only odd or even
>
> This issue also came to my mind. addr:interpolation on a building doesn't seem appropriate. JOSM, for example, renders it as a dotted line around the edge of the building (as if that is the addr:interpolation way).  Clearly then, addr:interpolation isn't meant for buildings.
>
> Currently, I do 1;3;5;7;9 (here is an example of this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/222193468/history [old versions of this building have that tagging scheme])
>
> Probably, a proposal needs to be created to either create a new tag or change addr:interpolation so that its meaning is different on closed and open ways.
>
> I think the latter solution is better, as people probably already tag buildings with an addr:interpolation.
>
> Thanks,
> IpswichMapper
>
> --
>
>
> 10 Dec 2020, 15:37 by [hidden email]:
>
> Is there a way when specifying a range for addr:housenumber to indicate it's only for even or odd numbers?
>
> When walking around my local area I have come across some blocks that will have a sign indicating for example house numbers 1 to 21 odd only. Similarly when there is just one building drawn for a whole street of terrace houses the number range will only be or odd even depending on the side of the road.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

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Re: FWD: Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

Great Britain mailing list



Dec 10, 2020, 21:51 by [hidden email]:
However, I would regard the Dutch & Polish communities approach of adding individual
nodes for each address in the building irrespective of the actual address position outline
as incorrect mapping in the UK. In both cases, and probably also in Denmark, this is most
likely because addresses have been imported from a national database and this allows
incremental updates from the same source. The problem with this is that it prevents classic
OSM iterative refinement, such as accurate mapping for indoor usage, for instance to enable
guidance for blind people.
At least in Poland separate nodes for addresses are preferred as this:

- more accurate and allows to specify where given address actually is
- for example after mapping entrances, you can be guided to a correct one
- I am confused why it prevents
"OSM iterative refinement, such as accurate mapping for indoor usage"
(maybe in UK addresses are assigned differently than in Poland)
- maybe it is related to fact that I am unaware of "address position outline"
existing in Poland - address is de facto assigned to building/plot/entrance
and in rare cases to complex objects such as a hospital or group of entrances
- it is common to have on street corner address from two streets in one building
and three nearby buildings), mapping this as an interpolation would not work
(and least I think so)
- and yes, is easier to map and import


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Re: FWD: Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

Donald Noble
Just to add my opinion on this, I would also agree with Jerry that addr:interpolation on a node/building with an addr:housenumber=1-5 would seem an obvious and logical way.

To reply to Mateusz, I think the situation in the UK may be different, as they note. There are several addresses I am aware of (at least in Scotland) where multiple buildings have been joined together into one (for example shops), and so these have one entrance and one address, but this spans a range of numbers, eg the postal address could be 5-9 High Street, but there are even numbers on the other side of the street. It would be incorrect to use multiple nodes in this instance, as there is no such address as 7 High Street.

Cheers, Donald 

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 22:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB <[hidden email]> wrote:



Dec 10, 2020, 21:51 by [hidden email]:
However, I would regard the Dutch & Polish communities approach of adding individual
nodes for each address in the building irrespective of the actual address position outline
as incorrect mapping in the UK. In both cases, and probably also in Denmark, this is most
likely because addresses have been imported from a national database and this allows
incremental updates from the same source. The problem with this is that it prevents classic
OSM iterative refinement, such as accurate mapping for indoor usage, for instance to enable
guidance for blind people.
At least in Poland separate nodes for addresses are preferred as this:

- more accurate and allows to specify where given address actually is
- for example after mapping entrances, you can be guided to a correct one
- I am confused why it prevents
"OSM iterative refinement, such as accurate mapping for indoor usage"
(maybe in UK addresses are assigned differently than in Poland)
- maybe it is related to fact that I am unaware of "address position outline"
existing in Poland - address is de facto assigned to building/plot/entrance
and in rare cases to complex objects such as a hospital or group of entrances
- it is common to have on street corner address from two streets in one building
and three nearby buildings), mapping this as an interpolation would not work
(and least I think so)
- and yes, is easier to map and import

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