How can I force refresh of map tiles after move to a new backed?

[Developer Discussion mailing list]

Poland (and Europe in general) recently started using new backed for tile

delivery from OSM servers.

It is much faster and responsive so thanks to whoever handled this

(hopefully it is not too expensive).

But sadly I see no way to force tile refresh, old method of clearing

browser cache no longer works.

See for example complete motorway at

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.20141/21.30912

when I zoom out to

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/52.20141/21.30912

it shows as under construction

How can I force refresh?

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Maarten Deen]

On 2020-12-29 09:30, Mateusz Konieczny via dev wrote:

> Poland (and Europe in general) recently started using new backed for
> tile
> delivery from OSM servers.
> It is much faster and responsive so thanks to whoever handled this
> (hopefully it is not too expensive).
>
> But sadly I see no way to force tile refresh, old method of clearing
> browser cache no longer works.
>
> See for example complete motorway at
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.20141/21.30912
> when I zoom out to
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/52.20141/21.30912 [1]

It showed under construction when I first loaded it, then I did CTRL-F5
and now it shows as completed.
My browser is firefox, YMMV.

Recently I have had more occasions where I updated something and I kept
seeing the old version and I had to use CTRL-F5 to see the new version.
In the past just a reload (CTRL-R) was sufficient. I wasn't aware that
there was a new backend. If this is related to that I would like to ask
that this is looked at as to why this happens.

Regards,
Maarten

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Developer Discussion mailing list]

On 29/12/2020 08:30, Mateusz Konieczny via dev wrote:

> But sadly I see no way to force tile refresh, old method of clearing
> browser cache no longer works.

It should work exactly as well as it always has, which is to
say that it might work.

Specifically it will (for sites where it is allowed) force a
revalidation of the frontend cache entry.

That only means that the frontend will check with the backend
render server though, and if that server is busy then the
tile will not be rerendered immediately but will instead be
queued for rendering later if the queue is not already full.

You don't say what zoom you're seeing a problem at but that
road appears to be OK for me now though your results will
depend on which cache and render server you are reaching.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes ([hidden email])
http://compton.nu/

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Dec 2020, at 10:17, Maarten Deen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It showed under construction when I first loaded it, then I did CTRL-F5 and now it shows as completed.


isn’t this the usual behavior due to distributed tile delivery? I recall reloading several times and getting different results/states according to the tile server that serves the tile (in the same screen you might get tiles from different servers, which sometimes have different images in their cache)


Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Developer Discussion mailing list]

On 29/12/2020 09:14, Maarten Deen wrote:

> Recently I have had more occasions where I updated something and I kept
> seeing the old version and I had to use CTRL-F5 to see the new version.
> In the past just a reload (CTRL-R) was sufficient. I wasn't aware that
> there was a new backend. If this is related to that I would like to ask
> that this is looked at as to why this happens.

I'm not aware of the details of your OS and browser so I can't comment
on specific key combinations.

Specifically I don't know if Ctrl-F5 is any different to Ctrl-R in your
environment, but a simple Ctrl-R reload has never done anything other
than reload, using whatever cached results are available. In most cases
that won't go to the server at all it will just reuse the tiles the
browser already has.

A forced reload (typically Ctrl-Shift-R) is what forces the browser to
check with the server, and to request that any caches in the path try
to revalidate with their upstream.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes ([hidden email])
http://compton.nu/

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Developer Discussion mailing list]

Dec 29, 2020, 10:23 by [hidden email]:

On 29/12/2020 08:30, Mateusz Konieczny via dev wrote:

But sadly I see no way to force tile refresh, old method of clearing

browser cache no longer works.

It should work exactly as well as it always has, which is to

say that it might work.

I expected that there may be new level of caching

or cache working differently what is affecting how

forcing refresh works.

Specifically it will (for sites where it is allowed) force a

revalidation of the frontend cache entry.

That only means that the frontend will check with the backend

render server though, and if that server is busy then the

tile will not be rerendered immediately but will instead be

queued for rendering later if the queue is not already full.

Yes, it may be coincidence. But lately forced refresh

repeatedly failed for me, while earlier it was working.

But still, it is possible that I see patter where none exists.

You don't say what zoom you're seeing a problem at but that

road appears to be OK for me now though your results will

depend on which cache and render server you are reaching.

In this case 12

" when I zoom out to

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/52.20141/21.30912

it shows as under construction "

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Maarten Deen]

On 2020-12-29 10:27, Tom Hughes wrote:

> On 29/12/2020 09:14, Maarten Deen wrote:
>
>> Recently I have had more occasions where I updated something and I
>> kept seeing the old version and I had to use CTRL-F5 to see the new
>> version. In the past just a reload (CTRL-R) was sufficient. I wasn't
>> aware that there was a new backend. If this is related to that I would
>> like to ask that this is looked at as to why this happens.
>
> I'm not aware of the details of your OS and browser so I can't comment
> on specific key combinations.

Firefox on windows 7.

> Specifically I don't know if Ctrl-F5 is any different to Ctrl-R in your
> environment, but a simple Ctrl-R reload has never done anything other
> than reload, using whatever cached results are available. In most cases
> that won't go to the server at all it will just reuse the tiles the
> browser already has.
>
> A forced reload (typically Ctrl-Shift-R) is what forces the browser to
> check with the server, and to request that any caches in the path try
> to revalidate with their upstream.

I've looked it up and the internet says "CTRL-F5 does a force cache
purge where CTRL-R does not"
https://superuser.com/questions/205279/ctrlf5-vs-ctrlr-on-browsers

In the past I have always used CTRL-R to refresh and generally within a
few minutes the new tiles were shown. As I said, the last few days I've
had edits where this did not do anything and only with a CTRL-F5 I saw
new tiles.
So from my perspetive, the behaviour of the map has definitely changed.

Regards,
Maarten

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Developer Discussion mailing list]

On 29/12/2020 10:04, Mateusz Konieczny via dev wrote:

> In this case 12
>
> " when I zoom out to
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/52.20141/21.30912 
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.20141/21.30912>
> it shows as under construction "

The low zoom tiles, which is everything up to 12, are only
rendered once a month.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes ([hidden email])
http://compton.nu/

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Developer Discussion mailing list]

Dec 29, 2020, 12:23 by [hidden email]:

On 29/12/2020 10:04, Mateusz Konieczny via dev wrote:

In this case 12

" when I zoom out to

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/52.20141/21.30912 <https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.20141/21.30912>

it shows as under construction "

The low zoom tiles, which is everything up to 12, are only

rendered once a month.

Thanks! Sorry for confusion then, so this case is clearly

unrelated to infrastructure change.

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[Oliver Simmons]

[You may receive this twice as I sent it with “Reply” rather than “Reply to all” by mistake, you can delete the other one.]

 

I’ve had this start happening to me as well, I didn’t know there was a new backend.

 

On some occasions I’m really lucky and one reload does the trick, but often I have to reload a lot of

times as the tiles “can’t seem to decide” whether they are the old or new ones.

This applies only when zoomed in far.

 

I assume that the tiles are being fetched from multiple servers and they are fighting over where the

tile comes from, which is fine for general use and will probably speed things up, but for us mappers

looking for a quick way to check our mapping, it’s a bit annoying.

 

This is all on Microsoft Edge (Chromium) with the “Disable Cache” option on in the dev panel.

This option is vey handy so you don’t have to completely refresh the page, zooming in and out will

“forget” the tiles of the layer you were on and so zooming back will fetch the tiles from the server

again.

 

―

- Oliver Simmons [https://goodclover.xyz]

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: 29 December 2020 9:17 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] How can I force refresh of map tiles after move to a new backed?

 

On 2020-12-29 09:30, Mateusz Konieczny via dev wrote:

> Poland (and Europe in general) recently started using new backed for

> tile

> delivery from OSM servers.

> It is much faster and responsive so thanks to whoever handled this

> (hopefully it is not too expensive).

>

> But sadly I see no way to force tile refresh, old method of clearing

> browser cache no longer works.

>

> See for example complete motorway at

> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.20141/21.30912

> when I zoom out to

> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/52.20141/21.30912 [1]

 

It showed under construction when I first loaded it, then I did CTRL-F5

and now it shows as completed.

My browser is firefox, YMMV.

 

Recently I have had more occasions where I updated something and I kept

seeing the old version and I had to use CTRL-F5 to see the new version.

In the past just a reload (CTRL-R) was sufficient. I wasn't aware that

there was a new backend. If this is related to that I would like to ask

that this is looked at as to why this happens.

 

Regards,

Maarten

 

_______________________________________________

dev mailing list

[hidden email]

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

 

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev