Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

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Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

Ilya Zverev-2
Hi folks,

Today we were looking for a tag to mark this structure:


Searching the wiki gave out FIVE options:


What’s confusing is that photos in the first three look the same, even with a book on birds featured on the wildlife_hide page.

I can imagine how tower:type=observation differs from the others, but what do you think about four others? Should we add a warning box on all three “_hide” tags to use amenity=hunting_stand instead? Or choose one “_hide” over others? Currently the wiki is very disorienting.

Ilya

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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

dieterdreist


Am Di., 22. Okt. 2019 um 09:35 Uhr schrieb Ilya Zverev <[hidden email]>:
Hi folks,

Today we were looking for a tag to mark this structure:


Searching the wiki gave out FIVE options:


What’s confusing is that photos in the first three look the same, even with a book on birds featured on the wildlife_hide page.


I can imagine how tower:type=observation differs from the others, but what do you think about four others? Should we add a warning box on all three “_hide” tags to use amenity=hunting_stand instead? Or choose one “_hide” over others? Currently the wiki is very disorienting.



a hunting stand is a place where hunters are waiting for animals to shoot them. A bird hide or wildlife hide is a place where you can observe animals / birds.

I do not recall any discussion about hunting=raised_hide and it seems to be a duplicate or sub-group of hunting stand. The tag should probably be discouraged as stand alone tag (in favor of hunting stand), but it could make sense to state the subtype of hunting stand.

Observation towers are similar features, but usually higher and not specifically for watching animals. The definition says they are for "long distance" observations, while hunting stands are for observing within shooting range.

With regard to your photo, we cannot tell which is the correct tag, because we do not know what the purpose is.

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

Ilya Zverev-2
I understand the reasoning, but I don’t see how can I follow the “truth on the ground” principle. Are there any guidelines on choosing the correct tag? For some reason people don’t write its purpose on a side. And again, images in three of these pages are the same.

Ilya

On 22 Oct 2019, at 10:46, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:



Am Di., 22. Okt. 2019 um 09:35 Uhr schrieb Ilya Zverev <[hidden email]>:
Hi folks,

Today we were looking for a tag to mark this structure:


Searching the wiki gave out FIVE options:


What’s confusing is that photos in the first three look the same, even with a book on birds featured on the wildlife_hide page.


I can imagine how tower:type=observation differs from the others, but what do you think about four others? Should we add a warning box on all three “_hide” tags to use amenity=hunting_stand instead? Or choose one “_hide” over others? Currently the wiki is very disorienting.



a hunting stand is a place where hunters are waiting for animals to shoot them. A bird hide or wildlife hide is a place where you can observe animals / birds.

I do not recall any discussion about hunting=raised_hide and it seems to be a duplicate or sub-group of hunting stand. The tag should probably be discouraged as stand alone tag (in favor of hunting stand), but it could make sense to state the subtype of hunting stand.

Observation towers are similar features, but usually higher and not specifically for watching animals. The definition says they are for "long distance" observations, while hunting stands are for observing within shooting range.

With regard to your photo, we cannot tell which is the correct tag, because we do not know what the purpose is.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

Andy Townsend
On 22/10/2019 15:36, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> For some reason people don’t write its purpose on a side. And again,
> images in three of these pages are the same.

This probably varies around the world, but I suspect in many places the
intended use is pretty obvious (if not actually written on the side,
which it would be in the UK).  Like with many other tags, you need to
map to the best of your knowledge.  If you pick the wrong one someone
can always correct it later.

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Ilya Zverev-2
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 at 15:40, Ilya Zverev <[hidden email]> wrote:
I understand the reasoning, but I don’t see how can I follow the “truth on the ground” principle. Are there any guidelines on choosing the correct tag? For some reason people don’t write its purpose on a side.

The purpose may not be written on the side but may be documented elsewhere, or the hide
may have a name such as "Curlew Hide."  Failing that, birds are animals, so if you don't know
then "animal hide."  If it's not on a nature reserve then it may be a shooting hide.

And again, images in three of these pages are the same.

Not unreasonable as there may be little to physically distinguish the various types of hides. 

--
Paul


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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

Tagging mailing list
In reply to this post by Ilya Zverev-2
On 10/22/2019 10:36 AM, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> I understand the reasoning, but I don’t see how can I follow the
> “truth on the ground” principle. Are there any guidelines on choosing
> the correct tag? For some reason people don’t write its purpose on a
> side. And again, images in three of these pages are the same.

My suggestion:

- Does you believe it's for hunting? Tag amenity=hunting_stand (almost
1000 times more popular than hunting=raised_hide).
- Do you believe it's primarily for bird watching? Tag leisure=bird_hide.
- Neither of the above but it still appears to be for watching wildlife?
Tag leisure=wildlife_hide.
- It's a tower but you're not sure what it's for? Tag man_made=tower and
optionally tower:type=observation/whatever your best guess is. (You can
also add tower tags to any of the tags above, if you think it's a good fit.)
- It's not a tower and you're not sure what it's for? Tag
building=yes/hut/shed/cabin/whatever.

J


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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

dieterdreist
the bird/wildlife watching places I have mapped had indeed signs with typical animals you might see, while hunting stands in my area at most may have signage that you may not access them, but usually there are no signs at all

Cheers Martin
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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Ilya Zverev-2
You may need to look at the context, or ask local people.

For example many named peaks, streams, saddles have no explicit sign -
you need to ask local people or base it on your own knowledge.

22 Oct 2019, 16:36 by [hidden email]:
I understand the reasoning, but I don’t see how can I follow the “truth on the ground” principle. Are there any guidelines on choosing the correct tag? For some reason people don’t write its purpose on a side. And again, images in three of these pages are the same.

Ilya

On 22 Oct 2019, at 10:46, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:



Am Di., 22. Okt. 2019 um 09:35 Uhr schrieb Ilya Zverev <[hidden email]>:
Hi folks,

Today we were looking for a tag to mark this structure:


Searching the wiki gave out FIVE options:


What’s confusing is that photos in the first three look the same, even with a book on birds featured on the wildlife_hide page.



I can imagine how tower:type=observation differs from the others, but what do you think about four others? Should we add a warning box on all three “_hide” tags to use amenity=hunting_stand instead? Or choose one “_hide” over others? Currently the wiki is very disorienting.



a hunting stand is a place where hunters are waiting for animals to shoot them. A bird hide or wildlife hide is a place where you can observe animals / birds.

I do not recall any discussion about hunting=raised_hide and it seems to be a duplicate or sub-group of hunting stand. The tag should probably be discouraged as stand alone tag (in favor of hunting stand), but it could make sense to state the subtype of hunting stand.

Observation towers are similar features, but usually higher and not specifically for watching animals. The definition says they are for "long distance" observations, while hunting stands are for observing within shooting range.

With regard to your photo, we cannot tell which is the correct tag, because we do not know what the purpose is.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

Philip Barnes


On Tuesday, 22 October 2019, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> You may need to look at the context, or ask local people.
>
> For example many named peaks, streams, saddles have no explicit sign -
> you need to ask local people or base it on your own knowledge.
>
Or use out of copyright mapping.

Phil (trigpoint)

 

> 22 Oct 2019, 16:36 by [hidden email]:
>
> > I understand the reasoning, but I don’t see how can I follow the “truth on the ground” principle. Are there any guidelines on choosing the correct tag? For some reason people don’t write its purpose on a side. And again, images in three of these pages are the same.
> >
> > Ilya
> >
> >
> >> On 22 Oct 2019, at 10:46, Martin Koppenhoefer <>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am Di., 22. Okt. 2019 um 09:35 Uhr schrieb Ilya Zverev <>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>> >:
> >>
> >>> Hi folks,
> >>>
> >>> Today we were looking for a tag to mark this structure:
> >>>
> >>> http://not.textual.ru/zverik/2/5/some_hide.jpg <http://not.textual.ru/zverik/2/5/some_hide.jpg>
> >>>
> >>> Searching the wiki gave out FIVE options:
> >>>
> >>> - >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dbird_hide <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure=bird_hide>
> >>> ->>>  >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dwildlife_hide <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure=wildlife_hide>
> >>> ->>>  >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dhunting_stand <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=hunting_stand>
> >>> ->>>  >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:hunting%3Draised_hide <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:hunting=raised_hide>
> >>> ->>>  >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tower:type%3Dobservation <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tower:type=observation>
> >>>
> >>> What’s confusing is that photos in the first three look the same, even with a book on birds featured on the wildlife_hide page.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I can imagine how tower:type=observation differs from the others, but what do you think about four others? Should we add a warning box on all three “_hide” tags to use amenity=hunting_stand instead? Or choose one “_hide” over others? Currently the wiki is very disorienting.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> a hunting stand is a place where hunters are waiting for animals to shoot them. A bird hide or wildlife hide is a place where you can observe animals / birds.
> >>
> >> I do not recall any discussion about hunting=raised_hide and it seems to be a duplicate or sub-group of hunting stand. The tag should probably be discouraged as stand alone tag (in favor of hunting stand), but it could make sense to state the subtype of hunting stand.
> >>
> >> Observation towers are similar features, but usually higher and not specifically for watching animals. The definition says they are for "long distance" observations, while hunting stands are for observing within shooting range.
> >>
> >> With regard to your photo, we cannot tell which is the correct tag, because we do not know what the purpose is.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Martin
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Tagging mailing list
> >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging>
> >>
>
>

--
Sent from my Sailfish device
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