Ignore roundabout flare in counting

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Ignore roundabout flare in counting

Florian Lohoff-2

Hi,
is there a tag to ignore a roundabout flare in counting the exits?

We have a roundabout with a private driveway connecting to the
roundabout. Visually you wont actually count that service road
as a valid roundabout flare but still its a connection.

A mapper now changed to a faked topology to fix the announcements
of the navigation which i reverted.

Is there tagging to let announcements ignore that flare?

Flo
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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

SelfishSeahorse
On Friday, October 5, 2018, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is there tagging to let announcements ignore that flare?

I think that if the driveway is tagged highway=service, this should be enough information for the routeing engine to ignore it. Besides there might be people that don't want the driveway to be ignored.

Regards
Markus

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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

André Pirard-2
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
On 2018-10-05 20:35, Florian Lohoff wrote:
Hi,
is there a tag to ignore a roundabout flare in counting the exits?
Is it a good idea for a navigator to ignore an exit and risk confusion?
What number should it say if that's the way to go?
We have a roundabout with a private driveway connecting to the
roundabout. Visually you wont actually count that service road
as a valid roundabout flare but still its a connection.

A mapper now changed to a faked topology to fix the announcements
of the navigation which i reverted. 

Is there tagging to let announcements ignore that flare?

Flo


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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

Graeme Fitzpatrick

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 at 07:27, André Pirard <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2018-10-05 20:35, Florian Lohoff wrote:
Hi,
is there a tag to ignore a roundabout flare in counting the exits?
Is it a good idea for a navigator to ignore an exit and risk confusion?

But it's not an exit, it's only a driveway
 
What number should it say if that's the way to go?

I know when I use OSMAND to go to number 25, it only tells me "You have arrived at your destination" about 1 - 2 houses early, it doesn't tell me "Turn right into number 25's driveway" :-)

I'd agree that if that driveway is tagged as =service =driveway, it shouldn't appear as an exit.

Thanks

Graeme
  

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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

Florian Lohoff-2
In reply to this post by SelfishSeahorse
On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 10:46:08PM +0200, SelfishSeahorse wrote:
> On Friday, October 5, 2018, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Is there tagging to let announcements ignore that flare?
>
> I think that if the driveway is tagged highway=service, this should be
> enough information for the routeing engine to ignore it. Besides there
> might be people that don't want the driveway to be ignored.

What about roundabouts only with services? Private property, military,
industrial complexes? No voice guidance there?

I rather go for an explicit tagging to exclude flares in counting as
long as you dont enter or leave the roundabout at that road.

Flo
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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

Florian Lohoff-2
In reply to this post by André Pirard-2
On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 11:26:01PM +0200, André Pirard wrote:
> On 2018-10-05 20:35, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> > Hi,
> > is there a tag to ignore a roundabout flare in counting the exits?
> Is it a good idea for a navigator to ignore an exit and risk confusion?
> What number should it say if that's the way to go?

Ignore flares if not used in counting.

The roundabout i have in mind has 4 normal exits and one "exit" which is
basically i private driveway. Its that small that noone not known to the
location would notice it.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.90770/8.26519

Mapillary has some images but the website is broken right now.
In the josm plugin you can view the images.

Typical exists have islands and 2 oneway flares. But there is one very
small driveway exit nobody really notices but it will be counted.

People are confused as they need to look at the navi screen to see the
direction to follow.

Flo
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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

Andrew Harvey-3


On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 at 17:34, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ignore flares if not used in counting.

The roundabout i have in mind has 4 normal exits and one "exit" which is
basically i private driveway. Its that small that noone not known to the
location would notice it.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.90770/8.26519

I'd expect my routing engine to announce this as turn left, continue straight, turn right at the roundabout with the name of the road to take off the roundabout, that would make the exit number irrelevant as it isn't used. Maybe something best addressed in the routing engine rather than in the OSM data?

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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

Tom Pfeifer
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
Calling the driveway a 'flare' is a bit confusing, in my understanding a roundabout flare is the
typical widening with two oneway segments around a small island. Such flares should be counted.

I encountered a similar situation as you describe, where some private gravel parking area in front
of a house was connected to a roundabout, and OsmAnd counted it. Tagged highway=service without
qualifier.

I agree with those that tagging highway=service + service=driveway should cause the router not to
count it as exit. If the router does still count it, I'd recommend to open an issue there.

tom

On 06.10.2018 09:33, Florian Lohoff wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 11:26:01PM +0200, André Pirard wrote:
>> On 2018-10-05 20:35, Florian Lohoff wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> is there a tag to ignore a roundabout flare in counting the exits?
>> Is it a good idea for a navigator to ignore an exit and risk confusion?
>> What number should it say if that's the way to go?
>
> Ignore flares if not used in counting.
>
> The roundabout i have in mind has 4 normal exits and one "exit" which is
> basically i private driveway. Its that small that noone not known to the
> location would notice it.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.90770/8.26519
>
> Mapillary has some images but the website is broken right now.
> In the josm plugin you can view the images.
>
> Typical exists have islands and 2 oneway flares. But there is one very
> small driveway exit nobody really notices but it will be counted.

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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

SelfishSeahorse
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 at 09:12, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 10:46:08PM +0200, SelfishSeahorse wrote:
> > On Friday, October 5, 2018, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Is there tagging to let announcements ignore that flare?
> >
> > I think that if the driveway is tagged highway=service, this should be
> > enough information for the routeing engine to ignore it. Besides there
> > might be people that don't want the driveway to be ignored.
>
> What about roundabouts only with services? Private property, military,
> industrial complexes? No voice guidance there?

The voice guidance could tell you to take the xth service exit.

Or in your example [1] if you come from SW on Groppeler Straße and
want to go into the driveway, it could announce: 'take the service
exit next to the 2nd exit' or 'drive into the driveway next to the 2nd
exit'.

[1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.90770/8.26519

Apparently, OSMR already skips service roads when counting roundabout
exits. In that example, travelling from SW to NW, it says: 'At
roundabout take 3rd exit onto Tecklenburger Weg'. However, when
travelling from SW into the driveway, it also counts the driveway as
3rd exit: 'At roundabout take 3rd exit onto unnamed road'. This could
be optimised.

> I rather go for an explicit tagging to exclude flares in counting as
> long as you dont enter or leave the roundabout at that road.

In my opinion all the information for the routing engines is already
there -- i don't know how this should be tagged differently.

Regards
Markus

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Re: Ignore roundabout flare in counting

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
5. Oct 2018 20:35 by [hidden email]:

Is there tagging to let announcements ignore that flare?


Generally, we do not tag directly for renderer/router, but tag

what exists there.


As I see it all information is there and router should not count

driveways on roundabout composed of both

driveways and normal roads.


Is service tag present on that road?


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