Inland customs offices

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Inland customs offices

Jan S
Hey everyone,

I've just noticed that the wiki at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:government%3Dcustoms defines a customs building as "A structure near or at an international boundary where travelers and vehicles crossing the border are inspected."

Customs controls however take place inland, also, e.g. at river ports or in bigger commercial areas. There, lorries or containes pass customs control and are then sealed by the customs officials and may thus pass a border without further inspection of the content.

I propose that inland customs facilities be tagged as government=customs, too, and the wiki be modified accordingly.

Best,
Jan

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Re: Inland customs offices

Joseph Eisenberg
That makes sense to me.

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 6:35 PM Jan S <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey everyone,

I've just noticed that the wiki at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:government%3Dcustoms defines a customs building as "A structure near or at an international boundary where travelers and vehicles crossing the border are inspected."

Customs controls however take place inland, also, e.g. at river ports or in bigger commercial areas. There, lorries or containes pass customs control and are then sealed by the customs officials and may thus pass a border without further inspection of the content.

I propose that inland customs facilities be tagged as government=customs, too, and the wiki be modified accordingly.

Best,
Jan
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Re: Inland customs offices

Anton Klim
It seems like there was some cross copying on the wiki. 
There is another, older key, amenity=customs, which is actually used at border crossings (from what I’ve seen) to denote customs control. 
I am not sure why the amenity tag was deprecated (it also seems to be used more often than the office tag). A customs office is not necessarily a place where such control can be carried out and surely should be distinguished?


Ant

30 мая 2019 г., в 10:55, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> написал(а):

That makes sense to me.

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 6:35 PM Jan S <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey everyone,

I've just noticed that the wiki at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:government%3Dcustoms defines a customs building as "A structure near or at an international boundary where travelers and vehicles crossing the border are inspected."

Customs controls however take place inland, also, e.g. at river ports or in bigger commercial areas. There, lorries or containes pass customs control and are then sealed by the customs officials and may thus pass a border without further inspection of the content.

I propose that inland customs facilities be tagged as government=customs, too, and the wiki be modified accordingly.

Best,
Jan
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Re: Inland customs offices

Paul Allen
On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 21:19, Anton Klim <[hidden email]> wrote:
It seems like there was some cross copying on the wiki. 
There is another, older key, amenity=customs, which is actually used at border crossings (from what I’ve seen) to denote customs control. 
I am not sure why the amenity tag was deprecated (it also seems to be used more often than the office tag). A customs office is not necessarily a place where such control can be carried out and surely should be distinguished?

Amenity:  n.
  1. Pleasantness.
  2. A thing or circumstance that is welcome and makes life a little easier.
  3.  Convenience.
  4.  A unit pertaining to the infrastructure of a community.
It you squint really hard, you can maybe see number 4 applying.  But the fact that amenity=*
is usually applied in the context of number 2 or 3 makes a customs office a bad fit.

--
Paul


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Re: Inland customs offices

Jan S


Am 30. Mai 2019 22:40:56 MESZ schrieb Paul Allen <[hidden email]>:

>On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 21:19, Anton Klim <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> There is another, older key, amenity=customs, which is actually used
>at
>> border crossings (from what I’ve seen) to denote customs control.
>> I am not sure why the amenity tag was deprecated (it also seems to be
>used
>> more often than the office tag). A customs office is not necessarily
>a
>> place where such control can be carried out and surely should be
>> distinguished?
>>
>
>Amenity:  n.
>
>   1. Pleasantness.
>   2. A thing or circumstance that is welcome and makes life a little
>   easier.
>   3.  Convenience.
>   4.  A unit pertaining to the infrastructure of a community.
>
>It you squint really hard, you can maybe see number 4 applying.  But
>the
>fact that amenity=*
>is usually applied in the context of number 2 or 3 makes a customs
>office a
>bad fit.

Indeed. I don't think amenity would fit for customs offices either. Police offices are already somewhat difficult to qualify as amenities, but you can put them under no 4. A customs office however doesn't serve the community in the same way, so it shouldn't be an amenity.

But independently from that, we agree that there's no reason to make a difference between customs offices at borders or at other places, as long as they control goods?

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Re: Inland customs offices

Paul Allen
On Fri, 31 May 2019 at 10:19, Jan S <[hidden email]> wrote:

But independently from that, we agree that there's no reason to make a difference between customs offices at borders or at other places, as long as they control goods?

I don't see any reason to make a difference.  A simple change to the wiki page saying that they're
usually or often found near borders would fix it.

OTOH, we perhaps do need to distinguish between customs offices that actually perform
searches/inspections and the like from offices where customs people administer the
active outposts.  In the same way that we will soon be differentiating between a police
station and a police admin HQ, or between a supermarket and the supermarket's head
office.

--
Paul


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Re: Inland customs offices

Warin
On 31/05/19 19:41, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 31 May 2019 at 10:19, Jan S <[hidden email]> wrote:

But independently from that, we agree that there's no reason to make a difference between customs offices at borders or at other places, as long as they control goods?

I don't see any reason to make a difference.  A simple change to the wiki page saying that they're
usually or often found near borders would fix it.

Also found at airports .. and those can be some distance from the border.

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Re: Inland customs offices

Philip Barnes
On Fri, 2019-05-31 at 19:57 +1000, Warin wrote:
On 31/05/19 19:41, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 31 May 2019 at 10:19, Jan S <[hidden email]> wrote:

But independently from that, we agree that there's no reason to make a difference between customs offices at borders or at other places, as long as they control goods?


I don't see any reason to make a difference.  A simple change to the wiki page saying that they're
usually or often found near borders would fix it.

Also found at airports .. and those can be some distance from the border.

They can also be at railway stations.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: Inland customs offices

Jan S
In reply to this post by Warin


Am 31. Mai 2019 11:57:58 MESZ schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:

>Also found at airports .. and those can be some distance from the
>border.

Which are borders also? Hm...

Anyways, I'll just change the wiki. Just wanted to be sure beforehand.

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Re: Inland customs offices

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Jan S


sent from a phone

> On 31. May 2019, at 11:18, Jan S <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But independently from that, we agree that there's no reason to make a difference between customs offices at borders or at other places, as long as they control goods?


+1, it doesn’t matter where they are, they are defined through their function.

Cheers, Martin
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