JOSM Translations

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JOSM Translations

Dirk Stöcker
Hello,

I had a look at our translation statistics recently and I find it awful,
that there is no real progress to see, compared to the situation a few
years ago.

A few languages are well maintained, but already such common languages
like French and Spanish have large gaps.

Mainly a few individuals keep the whole translations business alive (many
thanks to these mostly unnamed heros BTW).

Does anybody have ideas how more translators could be attracted for the
languages which have many missing texts?

We do daily text uploads and although launchpad has issues from time to
time it usually is stable. The tools exist.

I think the main problem is that people aren't aware they could help and
are needed to do so.

Ciao
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Re: JOSM Translations

Malcolm Herring
On 19/02/2017 13:19, Dirk Stöcker wrote:
> I think the main problem is that people aren't aware they could help and
> are needed to do so.

Maybe post your message in the general list? There may be able
translators there who do not read this newsgroup.


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Re: JOSM Translations

Vincent Privat
First thing is get rid of Launchpad and finish what was started with the
move to Transifex.

The launchpad UI is terrible, especially when you face OOPS errors every
time you search something. I myself completely gave up with the translation
effort because of it, so I presume I am not the only one.

Then one possible outcome would be to promote translation from JOSM itself.
Maybe something like what it is done with Jenkins:
https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Translation+Assistance+Plugin

2017-02-19 15:31 GMT+01:00 Malcolm Herring <[hidden email]>:

> On 19/02/2017 13:19, Dirk Stöcker wrote:
>
>> I think the main problem is that people aren't aware they could help and
>> are needed to do so.
>>
>
> Maybe post your message in the general list? There may be able translators
> there who do not read this newsgroup.
>
>
>
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Re: JOSM Translations

Holger Mappt
In reply to this post by Dirk Stöcker
On 2017-02-19 at 14:19 +0100 Dirk Stöcker wrote:

> I had a look at our translation statistics recently and I find it awful,
> that there is no real progress to see, compared to the situation a few
> years ago.
>
> Does anybody have ideas how more translators could be attracted for the
> languages which have many missing texts?
>
> We do daily text uploads and although launchpad has issues from time to
> time it usually is stable. The tools exist.
>
> I think the main problem is that people aren't aware they could help and
> are needed to do so.

Hi,

It would be interesting to know how important translations are. Maybe it
is okay for most of the users to use the English version.

I think one of the issues is the enormous number of strings. We reached
10000 a few weeks ago. And there is a pretty high update frequency. You
need days to catch up if no translation was done for a few months.

Another issue is the quality of the strings. Some source strings are not
English (but French, Dutch, Polish, etc), have unknown acronyms in it,
or it's just not clear what the string is about. That mainly affects
plugins and the imagery. I sometimes open a ticket if the quality is
bad. JOSM core tickets are resolved promptly, but plugin authors are
lazy or don't respond at all. There is no good way to address issues
with the imagery strings (there is actually no way).

Launchpad has issues all the time. It was okay for a while, but now the
timeout error is back again, I get it every time I translate something.
What's really missing is the possibility to comment a string to add
hints for other translators.

One solution could be to separate the JOSM core strings from the plugin
and imagery strings. Then translators can concentrate on the JOSM core,
it would reduce the timeout errors, and it becomes doable to actually
translate all (core) strings.

Plugins are a different topic. I think there is no way to attract people
to translate a large number of strings that nobody will ever read. An
idea would be to rank the untranslated strings by the number of plugin
installations (do we know this?) to start with the important strings.
But Launchpad sorts them alphabetically, not by importance.

For the imagery strings I opened ticket #12179, but it looks like no one
is interested to improve the current situation.

Holger



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Re: JOSM Translations

simson.gertrud@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Dirk Stöcker
I think the main point is Launchpad. It is completely unusable. Last
time I even needed to request the po file download link twice, just to
check a single translation string. The websearch did't work at all.

The second point is, that we need some groups. I think the users want to
start to translate the presets and the main menu entries and not some
cryptic error messages, they don't understand and therefore are not able
to translate them, even if they want to.

Best Regards,
Stefan

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Re: JOSM Translations

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Holger Mappt
2017-02-19 18:38 GMT+01:00 Holger Mappt <[hidden email]>:

> It would be interesting to know how important translations are. Maybe it
> is okay for most of the users to use the English version.




if you can understand English it is IMHO preferable to use JOSM in en even
if your language is completely translated, because many terms can be easier
recognized and tags can be found easier if you see them in the actual
language, and you don't face potential translation inconsistencies (e.g. a
node can be a "Knoten", "Node", "Punkt" etc. in German). It also helps to
contribute bug issues, ask a wider audience for specific help, etc. But if
you don't understand English a local translation is obviously needed. One
problem is maybe that translations are not needed by those who are able to
provide them (nobody is scratching his own itch here) ;-)

I admit I have copied the initial message from Dirk to talk, thinking that
indeed there might be people around of those languages with missing
translations, not knowing that help could be needed but willing to give a
hand:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-February/077579.html

I excuse if this was premature...

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: JOSM Translations

Dirk Stöcker
In reply to this post by Holger Mappt
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017, Holger Mappt wrote:

> It would be interesting to know how important translations are. Maybe it is
> okay for most of the users to use the English version.

The last days:

8079 (31.7%) en
5489 (21.5%) de
2615 (10.3%) ru
2157 ( 8.5%) fr
1541 ( 6.0%) en_GB
1018 ( 4.0%) es
  849 ( 3.3%) it
  709 ( 2.8%) pl
  468 ( 1.8%) ja
  426 ( 1.7%) nl
  311 ( 1.2%) zh_TW
  309 ( 1.2%) pt_BR
  239 ( 0.9%) zh_CN
  223 ( 0.9%) cs
  186 ( 0.7%) en_AU
  175 ( 0.7%) hu
  126 ( 0.5%) sv
  101 ( 0.4%) id
   92 ( 0.4%) uk
   81 ( 0.3%) sk
   57 ( 0.2%) da
   49 ( 0.2%) fi
   48 ( 0.2%) pt
   45 ( 0.2%) ca
   39 ( 0.2%) lt
   31 ( 0.1%) el
   17 ( 0.1%) nb
    5 ( 0.0%) be
    3 ( 0.0%) tr
    3 ( 0.0%) bg
    2 ( 0.0%) et
    2 ( 0.0%) gl
    1 ( 0.0%) vi
    1 ( 0.0%) ast

62% use a non-english version. That number would probably be higher if the
translations in some languages would be better.

> I think one of the issues is the enormous number of strings. We reached 10000
> a few weeks ago. And there is a pretty high update frequency. You need days
> to catch up if no translation was done for a few months.

Yes. That's obvious. That burden can only be reduced when distributed to
more shoulders (althought single people did translate thousands of texts).

Here everybody with more than 3000 translations:
14921 - pitort                 - ca   = 7959 - ca@valencia= 6962
10844 - andygol                - ru   =  290 - uk   =10554
10486 - Viktar Palsciuk        - be   =10486
10451 - mmyfl                  - zh_CN=10451
10195 - Dirk Stöcker           - de   = 5146 (others: many languages as fixes)
10080 - aceman444              - cs   = 5220 - sk   = 4860
  8594 - Minh Nguyễn            - vi   = 8594
  8132 - DiGro                  - nl   = 8132
  7543 - edrux                  - ast  = 7524 - es   =   19
  7512 - Davide Prade           - it   = 7512
  7441 - RPome                  - pt   = 7441
  6726 - fujimoto               - ja   = 6726
  6186 - Casiope
  5972 - Chao-Hsiung Liao       - zh_TW= 5972
  5698 - Jørn                   - da   = 5698
  5694 - Dalibor Jelínek        - cs   = 5693 - sk   =    1
  5656 - Báthory Péter          - hu   = 5656
  5633 - Casiope                - fr   = 5633
  5335 - Felipe L.              - pt_BR= 5335
  4710 - Vlado                  - sk   = 4710
  4562 - Dee-earlsoft           - en_GB= 4562
  3873 - Emilio Gomez Fernandez - es   = 3872 - fr   =    1
  3858 - Sophea Sok             - km   = 3858
  3720 - Aleksey Kabanov        - ru   = 3720
  3584 - Robert Readman         - en_AU= 3266 - en_GB=  318
  3309 - Ettore Atalan          - de   = 3309
  3110 - Rui                    - pt   = 3110
  3097 - Hiroshi Miura          - ja   = 3097
  3035 - Vitor George           - pt_BR= 3035

> Another issue is the quality of the strings. Some source strings are not
> English (but French, Dutch, Polish, etc), have unknown acronyms in it, or

These are bugs and should be fixed.

> it's just not clear what the string is about. That mainly affects plugins and
> the imagery. I sometimes open a ticket if the quality is bad. JOSM core
> tickets are resolved promptly, but plugin authors are lazy or don't respond

Yes. That's an issue. The success of JOSM has some drawbacks and
unmaintained plugins is one of them. The core developers try to manage
them, but we already have lots of core issues. No solution for this ATM.
For things like translating issues tickets should nevertheless be opened.
They are usually easy to fix and thus also easy to handle by the core
team.

> at all. There is no good way to address issues with the imagery strings
> (there is actually no way).

See answers in related ticket #12179.

> One solution could be to separate the JOSM core strings from the plugin and
> imagery strings. Then translators can concentrate on the JOSM core, it would
> reduce the timeout errors, and it becomes doable to actually translate all
> (core) strings.

The other solution would be the long discussed migration to transifex. It
includes also the splitting in 3 string groups.

> Plugins are a different topic. I think there is no way to attract people to
> translate a large number of strings that nobody will ever read. An idea would
> be to rank the untranslated strings by the number of plugin installations (do
> we know this?) to start with the important strings. But Launchpad sorts them
> alphabetically, not by importance.

Oh. We know EVERYTHING :-) Don't ask me why this list has reversed order
to the languages though - probably I implemented them at different
times...

    4 (* 0.1%) NanoLog
   10 (* 0.2%) matsim
   15 (* 0.2%) videomapping
   22 (* 0.3%) sds
   27 (* 0.4%) globalsat
   32 (* 0.5%) czechaddress
   35 (* 0.6%) michigan_left
   35 (* 0.6%) epci-fr
   37 (* 0.6%) plastic_laf
   38 (* 0.6%) native_password_manager
   41 (* 0.6%) wms-turbo-challenge2
   45 (* 0.7%) canvec_helper
   46 (* 0.7%) scoutsigns
   48 (* 0.8%) OSMRecPlugin
   48 (* 0.8%) surveyor
   50 (* 0.8%) touchscreenhelper
   51 (* 0.8%) o5m
   51 (* 0.8%) pointInfo
   51 (* 0.8%) TombPlugin
   54 (* 0.9%) SeaChart
   57 (* 0.9%) indoor_sweepline
   60 (* 0.9%) Tracer
   61 (* 1.0%) rex
   71 (* 1.1%) junctionchecking
   71 (* 1.1%) Tracer-testing
   75 (* 1.2%) ColumbusCSV
   82 (* 1.3%) indoorhelper
   83 (* 1.3%) pt_assistant
   89 (* 1.4%) imagery-xml-bounds
   94 (* 1.5%) gpsblam
   98 (* 1.5%) osm-obj-info
   99 (* 1.6%) conflation
  100 (* 1.6%) CADTools
  103 (* 1.6%) CommandLine
  106 (* 1.7%) colorscheme
  107 (* 1.7%) CustomizePublicTransportStop
  109 (* 1.7%) rasterfilters
  111 (* 1.8%) tagging-preset-tester
  114 (* 1.8%) waypoint_search
  115 (* 1.8%) livegps
  116 (* 1.8%) namemanager
  120 (* 1.9%) ImageWayPoint
  121 (* 1.9%) mbtiles
  122 (* 1.9%) ImproveWay
  130 (* 2.1%) DxfImport
  131 (* 2.1%) SeaMapEditor
  132 (* 2.1%) kendzi3d_Improved_by_Andrei
  134 (* 2.1%) openvisible
  134 (* 2.1%) routes
  138 (* 2.2%) ColorPlugin
  142 (* 2.2%) Create_grid_of_ways
  147 (* 2.3%) ImproveOsm
  154 (* 2.4%) lakewalker
  154 (* 2.4%) InfoMode
  159 (* 2.5%) importvec
  159 (* 2.5%) OpenStreetCam
  161 (* 2.5%) walkingpapers
  162 (* 2.6%) ShapeTools
  168 (* 2.7%) tag2link
  168 (* 2.7%) tofix
  169 (* 2.7%) jna
  173 (* 2.7%) auto_tools
  176 (* 2.8%) splinex
  176 (* 2.8%) areaselector
  184 (* 2.9%) Tracer2
  185 (* 2.9%) gpxfilter
  189 (* 3.0%) mapdust
  195 (* 3.1%) public_transport_layer
  200 (* 3.2%) routing
  209 (* 3.3%) dataimport
  211 (* 3.3%) cadastre-fr
  214 (* 3.4%) graphview
  214 (* 3.4%) kendzi3d
  215 (* 3.4%) ElevationProfile
  229 (* 3.6%) fieldpapers
  232 (* 3.7%) photoadjust
  233 (* 3.7%) gson
  237 (* 3.7%) scripting
  245 (* 3.9%) pdfimport
  245 (* 3.9%) BuildingGeneralization
  249 (* 3.9%) ext_tools
  253 (* 4.0%) SimplifyArea
  261 (* 4.1%) poly
  261 (* 4.1%) osmarender
  268 (* 4.2%) AddrInterpolation
  275 (* 4.3%) kendzi3d-resources
  281 (* 4.4%) imageryadjust
  291 (* 4.6%) waydownloader
  292 (* 4.6%) todo
  306 (* 4.8%) geojson
  316 (* 5.0%) DirectDownload
  317 (* 5.0%) jogl
  326 (* 5.1%) geochat
  336 (* 5.3%) photo_geotagging
  360 (* 5.7%) alignways
  365 (* 5.8%) merge-overlap
  369 (* 5.8%) DirectUpload
  378 (* 6.0%) turnlanes-tagging
  386 (* 6.1%) print
  420 (* 6.6%) continuosDownload
  435 (* 6.9%) pbf
  451 (* 7.1%) public_transport
  452 (* 7.1%) contourmerge
  493 (* 7.8%) download_along
  509 (* 8.0%) FixAddresses
  517 (* 8.2%) ImportImagePlugin
  540 (* 8.5%) wikipedia
  558 (* 8.8%) RoadSigns
  573 (* 9.0%) turnlanes
  579 (* 9.1%) tageditor
  583 (* 9.2%) editgpx
  585 (* 9.2%) FastDraw
  671 (*10.6%) undelete
  672 (*10.6%) reltoolbox
  708 (*11.2%) HouseNumberTaggingTool
  718 (*11.3%) terracer
  792 (*12.5%) Mapillary
  804 (*12.7%) imagery_offset_db
  862 (*13.6%) OpeningHoursEditor
  963 (*15.2%) apache-http
1073 (*16.9%) measurement
1167 (*18.4%) opendata
1204 (*19.0%) PicLayer
1232 (*19.4%) reverter
1328 (*21.0%) log4j
1717 (*27.1%) geotools
1730 (*27.3%) ejml
1812 (*28.6%) apache-commons
1832 (*28.9%) jts
2342 (*37.0%) buildings_tools
2365 (*37.3%) utilsplugin2
3994 (*63.0%) turnrestrictions

Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)
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Re: JOSM Translations

Dirk Stöcker
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> I admit I have copied the initial message from Dirk to talk, thinking that
> indeed there might be people around of those languages with missing
> translations, not knowing that help could be needed but willing to give a
> hand:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-February/077579.html
>
> I excuse if this was premature...

I'm not subscribed to any other list anymore, so feel free to spread the
word. Everthing which helps to improve the situation is welcome.

Sanitizing my language I have seen :-)

Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)