JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

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Re: JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

Wiktor Niesiobedzki
pon., 15 paź 2018 o 13:46 Dirk Stöcker <[hidden email]>
napisał(a):

>
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Wiktor Niesiobedzki wrote:
>
> > maybe less working on, but I'd like to discuss controversial tickets:
> > https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/16420
> > https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8269
> >
> > I hope that face to face discussion may move us forward.
>
> You still need to convince me of the benefits and I'm not in Karlsruhe.

That's really a shame, I really hoped for your presence at meetup though I
had misinterpret your earlier declaration. We will miss you there.

Cheers,

Wiktor
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Re: JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

Michael Zangl-3
In reply to this post by Dirk Stöcker
Since you are the one one objecting the loudest so far and won't be
attending, what are the points that would convince you to do one of the
following:

* Switch to a different build system
* Switch to a different / decentralized source versioning system?
* Change the project layout fundamentally (different source dir layout)
* Change the way in which JOSM is started (e.g. to replace webstart)

For most proposals, you currently have a "is no option" opinion, which
makes it difficult for us to discuss anything we could apply later.

Michael

On 15.10.2018 13:43, Dirk Stöcker wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Wiktor Niesiobedzki wrote:
>
>> maybe less working on, but I'd like to discuss controversial tickets:
>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/16420
>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8269
>>
>> I hope that face to face discussion may move us forward.
>
> You still need to convince me of the benefits and I'm not in Karlsruhe.
>
> Ciao

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Re: JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

Dirk Stöcker
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Michael Zangl wrote:

> Since you are the one one objecting the loudest so far and won't be
> attending, what are the points that would convince you to do one of the
> following:
>
> * Switch to a different build system

It must have advantages over the current one and must work offline and
without third party server infrastructure.

> * Switch to a different / decentralized source versioning system?

It must have advantages over the current one and must work without third
party server infrastructure.

> * Change the project layout fundamentally (different source dir layout)

I have no opinion here. Can't remember that I ever voiced either pro nor
contra. If it makes sense why not? Thought the general rule applies here
as well: It must have advantages over the current layout.

And changes must be incremental, like all JOSM changes.

> * Change the way in which JOSM is started (e.g. to replace webstart)

I don't use Webstart myself, as I don't use Windows. Whatever solution is
the best here should be implemented. In the history Webstart was not the
suggested solution, people downloaded the installers or the JAR-files as
main method. Webstart has a lot of advantages and keeping an method as
simple as that working would be a fine goal.

But probably changing the exe to be a full-featured compiled Java exe is
also a good way. That decision is up to the Windows users and developers.

> For most proposals, you currently have a "is no option" opinion, which makes
> it difficult for us to discuss anything we could apply later.

Don't mix that: For the first two points I currently have a big no, as
suggestions involve mostly relying on third party services (in case of git
even on Microsoft). I'm too long in this business to ever do that again
for a critical infrastructure component.

It was simply too often that services said "Sorry, we terminate this now"
or even "We encriple this now" to me that I trust such things if I can do
otherwise in a similar way. ATM we could simply copy our backup to a new
server and go on in case our service is shutdown now (with some hard work
reinstalling...). I don't want to give up that possibility for a bit of
additional niceties.

Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)

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Re: JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

Michael Zangl-3
On 15.10.2018 19:55, Dirk Stöcker wrote:

> Don't mix that: For the first two points I currently have a big no, as
> suggestions involve mostly relying on third party services (in case of
> git even on Microsoft). I'm too long in this business to ever do that
> again for a critical infrastructure component.
>
> It was simply too often that services said "Sorry, we terminate this
> now" or even "We encriple this now" to me that I trust such things if I
> can do otherwise in a similar way. ATM we could simply copy our backup
> to a new server and go on in case our service is shutdown now (with some
> hard work reinstalling...). I don't want to give up that possibility for
> a bit of additional niceties.

OK, that's clear. That also my opinion to always have a backup plan in
case things get bad / people leave the project / ...

@All
I'm looking forward to discuss all those issues with you and find a way
that would work for JOSM.

Michael

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Re: JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

Dirk Stöcker
In reply to this post by Vincent Privat
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Vincent Privat wrote:

>> After 1 day INTERGEO on Wednesday and at least 1 day RTCM standards
>> committee meeting on Thursday the chances are pretty low that I'll visit
>> another conference voluntarily soon. :-)
>
> It's not really a conference, it's more likely coding, talking and drinking
> beers :) And it's not often I come to Germany ;)

Now it is 1 day fair and 2 days standards committee and I feel like
afterwards I need a months holidays :-)

My advice to everybody: If you get asked to participate in
standardization, RUN, as fast as possible. Don't look back!

I wish you all fun at the meeting.

Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)

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Re: JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

Jo-2
Standards, some people can't seem to get enough of them :-)

Polyglot

Op do 18 okt. 2018 om 21:16 schreef Dirk Stöcker <[hidden email]
>:

> On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Vincent Privat wrote:
>
> >> After 1 day INTERGEO on Wednesday and at least 1 day RTCM standards
> >> committee meeting on Thursday the chances are pretty low that I'll visit
> >> another conference voluntarily soon. :-)
> >
> > It's not really a conference, it's more likely coding, talking and
> drinking
> > beers :) And it's not often I come to Germany ;)
>
> Now it is 1 day fair and 2 days standards committee and I feel like
> afterwards I need a months holidays :-)
>
> My advice to everybody: If you get asked to participate in
> standardization, RUN, as fast as possible. Don't look back!
>
> I wish you all fun at the meeting.
>
> Ciao
> --
> http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)
>
>
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Re: JOSM developers meetup at Karlsruhe?

Vincent Privat
I'm home :)
It was a real pleasure to finally meet everyone of you after all these
years, I really enjoyed this week-end!
I think this meetup was successful as we managed to discuss a lot about
what we want to do next with JOSM.
Michael has compiled the different discussed subjects in new Trac tickets
(thanks!) and I see Simon already attached the photos of our brainstorming
(thanks too!), all tickets can be retrieved with the hack-weekend-2018-10
keyword:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/query?status=!closed&keywords=~hack-weekend-2018-10
Let's see this week how things go. Right now I'm going to take a long
sleep, I'm exhausted!
Cheers,
Vincent

Le ven. 19 oct. 2018 à 00:00, Jo <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Standards, some people can't seem to get enough of them :-)
>
> Polyglot
>
> Op do 18 okt. 2018 om 21:16 schreef Dirk Stöcker <
> [hidden email]
> >:
>
> > On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Vincent Privat wrote:
> >
> > >> After 1 day INTERGEO on Wednesday and at least 1 day RTCM standards
> > >> committee meeting on Thursday the chances are pretty low that I'll
> visit
> > >> another conference voluntarily soon. :-)
> > >
> > > It's not really a conference, it's more likely coding, talking and
> > drinking
> > > beers :) And it's not often I come to Germany ;)
> >
> > Now it is 1 day fair and 2 days standards committee and I feel like
> > afterwards I need a months holidays :-)
> >
> > My advice to everybody: If you get asked to participate in
> > standardization, RUN, as fast as possible. Don't look back!
> >
> > I wish you all fun at the meeting.
> >
> > Ciao
> > --
> > http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)
> >
> >
>
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