Joining two pieces of a way

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Joining two pieces of a way

Isaac Wingfield
I have determined by inspection that the unnamed road here (Potlatch  
in edit mode highlights it):

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.265624&lon=-121.91252&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF

is an extension of Manda Drive, which is already a named way, and  
which shares an endpoint with the unnamed part. It seems that the  
proper thing to do is simply join the unnamed part to the named part,  
but I cannot figure out how to do that. The Potlatch "cheat sheet"  
says something about "Join/Merge to another line (if they share an end  
point)" by Shift/click, but nothing particularly useful happens when I  
do that.

isw

--

Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.


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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Steve Bennett-3
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Isaac Wingfield <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have determined by inspection that the unnamed road here (Potlatch
in edit mode highlights it):

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.265624&lon=-121.91252&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF

is an extension of Manda Drive, which is already a named way, and
which shares an endpoint with the unnamed part. It seems that the
proper thing to do is simply join the unnamed part to the named part,
but I cannot figure out how to do that. The Potlatch "cheat sheet"
says something about "Join/Merge to another line (if they share an end
point)" by Shift/click, but nothing particularly useful happens when I
do that.


Try ctrl+clicking. Also, it doesn't matter all that much if they're "one way", as long as they're both named correctly. You can just make two ways that connect.

Steve


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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Andre Engels
In reply to this post by Isaac Wingfield
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Isaac Wingfield <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have determined by inspection that the unnamed road here (Potlatch
> in edit mode highlights it):
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.265624&lon=-121.91252&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
>
> is an extension of Manda Drive, which is already a named way, and
> which shares an endpoint with the unnamed part. It seems that the
> proper thing to do is simply join the unnamed part to the named part,
> but I cannot figure out how to do that. The Potlatch "cheat sheet"
> says something about "Join/Merge to another line (if they share an end
> point)" by Shift/click, but nothing particularly useful happens when I
> do that.

Start as if you simply want to extend the way, and move in such a way
that the other way is highlighted (so that there would be a common
point created if you would click). Then move (back) to the common
point and press shift+click. I myself find it easier to first remove
the common point from one of the ways, then re-add it in that way.

Still, I have to wonder whether merging the ways is the right way to
go here: there is a lot of TIGER-data, and I am not 100% sure all of
that data applies to both parts of the way. However, you being in the
US, you can probably make a better decision on that.

--
André Engels, [hidden email]

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Randy-4
In reply to this post by Steve Bennett-3
Steve Bennett wrote:

>>I have determined by inspection that the unnamed road here (Potlatch
>>in edit mode highlights it):
>>
>>
>>http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.265624&lon=-121.91252&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
>>
>>is an extension of Manda Drive, which is already a named way, and
>>which shares an endpoint with the unnamed part. It seems that the
>>proper thing to do is simply join the unnamed part to the named part,
>>but I cannot figure out how to do that. The Potlatch "cheat sheet"
>>says something about "Join/Merge to another line (if they share an end
>>point)" by Shift/click, but nothing particularly useful happens when I
>>do that.
>>
>>
>Try ctrl+clicking. Also, it doesn't matter all that much if they're "one
>way", as long as they're both named correctly. You can just make two ways
>that connect.
>
>Steve

Assuming you know the street on both sides of the divided way is in fact
the same street name, and the way is properly mapped, then after you do
the ctrl+click to join them, I would a) make sure it's properly classifie
(probably so, although I didn't look at the satellite map), and I would
delete all the tiger: data, which is no longer useful. Mostly, I leave the
tiger:source line, just as an indication of where the original data came
from, but in this case, once you join the two, that is only half correct,
so I'd delete it as well. And, while there are those who disagree, I
always go by what appears to be the majority opinion, and change the
abbreviations (Dr, in this case) to full words.

Note that if there are any turn restrictions at the intersection, or
anything else that might require you to establish a relationship that
includes the two ways on each side of the divided way, then you will need
to keep them joined, but not combined. If not, since they are only a few
blocks long, there's certainly nothing wrong with combining them.

If you use JOSM, which I prefer except for quick fixes, it has a Combine
Ways Tool command, and it brings up a data box where you can decide which
values from each data set you use.
--
Randy


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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Greg Oseid
Would someone take a moment to post the location of an example that is "right" which includes the aspects Randy mentioned?  Specifically including "a relationship that
includes the two ways on each side of the divided way" that is joined, but not combined.

I'm particularly interested in relationships.  I think I've got the grasp of dual_carriageway relationships, but haven't really seen other road relationships in use.  Also, the actual use of dual_carriageway seems few and far between.  I have "discovered" some examples, but always wonder if they are "ideal" or if there is more to learn.

Thanks,

-goseid

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Randy <[hidden email]> wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:

>>I have determined by inspection that the unnamed road here (Potlatch
>>in edit mode highlights it):
>>
>>
>>http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.265624&lon=-121.91252&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
>>
>>is an extension of Manda Drive, which is already a named way, and
>>which shares an endpoint with the unnamed part. It seems that the
>>proper thing to do is simply join the unnamed part to the named part,
>>but I cannot figure out how to do that. The Potlatch "cheat sheet"
>>says something about "Join/Merge to another line (if they share an end
>>point)" by Shift/click, but nothing particularly useful happens when I
>>do that.
>>
>>
>Try ctrl+clicking. Also, it doesn't matter all that much if they're "one
>way", as long as they're both named correctly. You can just make two ways
>that connect.
>
>Steve

Assuming you know the street on both sides of the divided way is in fact
the same street name, and the way is properly mapped, then after you do
the ctrl+click to join them, I would a) make sure it's properly classifie
(probably so, although I didn't look at the satellite map), and I would
delete all the tiger: data, which is no longer useful. Mostly, I leave the
tiger:source line, just as an indication of where the original data came
from, but in this case, once you join the two, that is only half correct,
so I'd delete it as well. And, while there are those who disagree, I
always go by what appears to be the majority opinion, and change the
abbreviations (Dr, in this case) to full words.

Note that if there are any turn restrictions at the intersection, or
anything else that might require you to establish a relationship that
includes the two ways on each side of the divided way, then you will need
to keep them joined, but not combined. If not, since they are only a few
blocks long, there's certainly nothing wrong with combining them.

If you use JOSM, which I prefer except for quick fixes, it has a Combine
Ways Tool command, and it brings up a data box where you can decide which
values from each data set you use.
--
Randy


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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Cartinus
On Sunday 20 December 2009 13:21:28 Greg Oseid wrote:
> I'm particularly interested in relationships.  I think I've got the grasp
> of dual_carriageway relationships, but haven't really seen other road
> relationships in use.

Here is an example of a turn restriction. Both the secondary and the
unclassified road continue, but they are split at the crossing to make the
turn restriction relations.

<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.063909&lon=5.173566&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF>

--
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Jeff Barlow
Cartinus <[hidden email]>  wrote:

>Here is an example of a turn restriction. Both the secondary and the
>unclassified road continue, but they are split at the crossing to make the
>turn restriction relations.
>
><http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.063909&lon=5.173566&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF>

Okay, I see it but I don't understand it. What is that symbol in
the intersection? I don't see it in the map key. What is a "turn
restriction"? How is it rendered differently from a typical
intersection?

--
Later,
Jeff

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Per Lindström-3
söndag 20 december 2009 18.41.59 skrev  Jeff Barlow:

> Cartinus <[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >Here is an example of a turn restriction. Both the secondary and the
> >unclassified road continue, but they are split at the crossing to make the
> >turn restriction relations.
> >
> ><http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.063909&lon=5.173566&zoom=18&layers=B
> >000FTF>
>
> Okay, I see it but I don't understand it. What is that symbol in
> the intersection?

A traffic light

> I don't see it in the map key. What is a "turn
> restriction"?

I tells you how you may continue in an intersection. In this case you are not
allowed to turn at all. Important information for routing software.

> How is it rendered differently from a typical
> intersection?

It isn't. At least not in Mapnik or Osmarender as far as I have seen.
--
/Per Lindström

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Jeff Barlow
Per Lindström <[hidden email]>  wrote:

>söndag 20 december 2009 18.41.59 skrev  Jeff Barlow:
>> ...What is a "turn restriction"?
>
>I tells you how you may continue in an intersection. In this case you are not
>allowed to turn at all. Important information for routing software.
>
>> How is it rendered differently from a typical
>> intersection?
>
>It isn't. At least not in Mapnik or Osmarender as far as I have seen.

Okay, all that makes sense. I'm still confused though. Where is
this "turn restriction" information located and how can I view
it? I found no indication of it by following the posted link.

--
Later,
Jeff

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Paul Johnson-3
Jeff Barlow wrote:

> Per Lindström <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>>söndag 20 december 2009 18.41.59 skrev  Jeff Barlow:
>>> ...What is a "turn restriction"?
>>
>>I tells you how you may continue in an intersection. In this case you are not
>>allowed to turn at all. Important information for routing software.
>>
>>> How is it rendered differently from a typical
>>> intersection?
>>
>>It isn't. At least not in Mapnik or Osmarender as far as I have seen.
>
> Okay, all that makes sense. I'm still confused though. Where is
> this "turn restriction" information located and how can I view
> it? I found no indication of it by following the posted link.

Garmins are able to pick up on that, so is the various routing
visualization plugins for JOSM.



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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Andre Engels
In reply to this post by Jeff Barlow
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Jeff Barlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Per Lindström <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>>söndag 20 december 2009 18.41.59 skrev  Jeff Barlow:
>>> ...What is a "turn restriction"?
>>
>>I tells you how you may continue in an intersection. In this case you are not
>>allowed to turn at all. Important information for routing software.
>>
>>> How is it rendered differently from a typical
>>> intersection?
>>
>>It isn't. At least not in Mapnik or Osmarender as far as I have seen.
>
> Okay, all that makes sense. I'm still confused though. Where is
> this "turn restriction" information located and how can I view
> it? I found no indication of it by following the posted link.

It is a relation, members of which are the piece of road from which
the restriction holds, the intersection on which it holds and either
the road one is not allowed to go to or the road one must go to (at
least in the simplest and by far most common case). You can see it
when you open the area in Potlatch.

--
André Engels, [hidden email]

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Per Lindström-3
In reply to this post by Jeff Barlow
söndag 20 december 2009 22.37.06 skrev  Jeff Barlow:

> Per Lindström <[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >söndag 20 december 2009 18.41.59 skrev  Jeff Barlow:
> >> ...What is a "turn restriction"?
> >
> >I tells you how you may continue in an intersection. In this case you are
> > not allowed to turn at all. Important information for routing software.
> >
> >> How is it rendered differently from a typical
> >> intersection?
> >
> >It isn't. At least not in Mapnik or Osmarender as far as I have seen.
>
> Okay, all that makes sense. I'm still confused though. Where is
> this "turn restriction" information located and how can I view
> it? I found no indication of it by following the posted link.

There may be other sites that use the OpenStreetMap data to show this kind of
information on a map, but at least I have'nt found any.
The only way I've found to fins this information is in the editor. I'm using
Potlatch that can be found by pressing "Edit". "Edit with save" is safer than
live editing, so chose that. Click on a road segment leading to the
intersection. You'll see a couple of relations. Relations look like tags but
have white text on a slightly darker grey background. Two of them are called
"restriction" and has 'roles' (thats the words "to" and "from" to the right of
the word "restriction") on them. If you click on the word "restriction" you'll
get more information about this restriction. It says that the type is
restriction and that restriction is "only_straight_on". At least in this
intersection every restriction relation has three members: "from", "via" and
"to". You might have guessed that "from" is the road you are coming from, that
"to" is the road you're going to and "via" is the intersection itself.
For more information see this page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction
--
/Per Lindström

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Isaac Wingfield
In reply to this post by Isaac Wingfield

>
>> I have determined by inspection that the unnamed road here (Potlatch
>> in edit mode highlights it):
>>
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.265624&lon=-121.91252&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
>>
>> is an extension of Manda Drive, which is already a named way, and
>> which shares an endpoint with the unnamed part. It seems that the
>> proper thing to do is simply join the unnamed part to the named part,
>> but I cannot figure out how to do that. The Potlatch "cheat sheet"
>> says something about "Join/Merge to another line (if they share an  
>> end
>> point)" by Shift/click, but nothing particularly useful happens  
>> when I
>> do that.
>>
>>
> Try ctrl+clicking. Also, it doesn't matter all that much if they're  
> "one
> way", as long as they're both named correctly.

It seemed to me that the Tiger/Line data which i associated with one  
part should be associated with the rest, too.

> You can just make two ways that connect.


OK. I select the part with all the Tiger/Line data, and then ctrl
+click on the part I want to join to it. That brings up a dialog about  
"Settings..." and "About Adobe Flash Player 10..."

Poking a bit more, I found that the correct combination on a Mac/OSX  
appears to be command+click. I have no idea why the key combo that  
works on other platforms fails, and I never tried it before because  
usually, "command + anything" is only used for Mac-specific things.  
I'm used to using ctrl or option with X-11 apps, for example.

Anyhow, all fixed now.

Isaac

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Re: Joining two pieces of a way

Randy-4
In reply to this post by Jeff Barlow
Jeff Barlow wrote:

>Per Lindström <[hidden email]>  
>wrote:
>
>>söndag 20 december 2009 18.41.59 skrev  Jeff Barlow:
>>>...What is a "turn restriction"?
>>
>>I tells you how you may continue in an intersection. In this case you are
>>not
>>allowed to turn at all. Important information for routing software.
>>
>>>How is it rendered differently from a typical
>>>intersection?
>>
>>It isn't. At least not in Mapnik or Osmarender as far as I have seen.
>
>Okay, all that makes sense. I'm still confused though. Where is
>this "turn restriction" information located and how can I view
>it? I found no indication of it by following the posted link.

Jeff,

The best way to see the turn restriction relations is through JOSM. If you
haven't loaded it, I recommend that you do, although you may have to
install Java, as well.

Once you have JOSM loaded, download the data for the example intersection.
Once you do, you'll see a list of restriction relationships on the right
side of the page. Select one of them and then select edit (the paper and
pencil icon). JOSM will pop up an excellent relationship editor that will
make it very easy to see the logic and data for that particular
restriction. Potlatch is, in my opinion, but I'm not a Potlatch expert, a
little week in presenting relationship data.

Hope this helps. And if I missed the issue and am telling you stuff you
already know, my apology.

--
Randy


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