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Juice "restaurants"

Alexander Jones
What is the proper way to tag places that make and sell juice and fruit
smoothies? Examples in the U.S. include Jamba Juice and Orange Julius.

Alexander



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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Greg Troxel

Alexander Jones <[hidden email]> writes:

> What is the proper way to tag places that make and sell juice and fruit
> smoothies? Examples in the U.S. include Jamba Juice and Orange Julius.

I could call them amenity=cafe cuisine=juice, because they are not so
different from a coffeeshop, except for the liquid type.

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Brian Wolford


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Greg Troxel <[hidden email]> wrote:

Alexander Jones <[hidden email]> writes:

> What is the proper way to tag places that make and sell juice and fruit
> smoothies? Examples in the U.S. include Jamba Juice and Orange Julius.

I could call them amenity=cafe cuisine=juice, because they are not so
different from a coffeeshop, except for the liquid type.

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Alexander Jones




On 07/mag/2013, at 10:08, Alexander Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is the proper way to tag places that make and sell juice and fruit
> smoothies? Examples in the U.S. include Jamba Juice and Orange Julius.


I'd not choose amenity=cafe if they don't sell besides the juice also coffee. Look how quite specific the other tags are for places where you can drink, eg biergarten, pub, cafe, bar, kiosk, nightclub  ...
What about amenity=juice_bar?

I must admit that I don't know Jamba Juice or the other, looked on their homepage and maybe fast_food with cuisine would also be an option, but then, if you can't eat there...

cheers,
Martin
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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Serge Wroclawski-2
I agree with specifically tagging them as juice bars (amenity=juice_bar).

They also don't all qualify as cafes, since they don't all offer
seating, for example, if they're in a food court, or just a street
vendor with no seating.

- Serge

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Eugene Alvin Villar
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with specifically tagging them as juice bars (amenity=juice_bar).

They also don't all qualify as cafes, since they don't all offer
seating, for example, if they're in a food court, or just a street
vendor with no seating.

Going by your logic, then Starbucks should not be tagged as amenity=cafe as well since there are also Starbucks outlets that don't provide seats.

Anyway, some Starbucks outlets should not be amenity=cafe for that reason (no seating), and for outlets that do have seating, then amenity=cafe is appropriate. Could we not use the same logic for Jamba Juice outlets too? I know of a couple of Jamba Juice outlets in my area that function like Starbucks in that people buy drinks and sit and hang out with friends and family.


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Re: Juice "restaurants"

dieterdreist



2013/5/8 Eugene Alvin Villar <[hidden email]>
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with specifically tagging them as juice bars (amenity=juice_bar).

They also don't all qualify as cafes, since they don't all offer
seating, for example, if they're in a food court, or just a street
vendor with no seating.

Going by your logic, then Starbucks should not be tagged as amenity=cafe as well since there are also Starbucks outlets that don't provide seats.


+1, if it is a takeaway Starbuck without seating it shouldn't be tagged amenity=cafe, but you shouldn't deduct from this that all Starbucks shouldn't be tagged as amenity=cafe, but rather that not all Starbucks will be tagged the same way.

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

jaakkoh
And what should "cafes without seats" be tagged as then?
amenity=fast_drinks
amenity=cafe_bar
Or something else?

-Jaakko

Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel
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Mobile: +509-37-26 91 54, Skype/GoogleTalk: jhelleranta

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 14:35:19
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools<[hidden email]>
Reply-To: "Tag discussion,
 strategy and related tools" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Juice "restaurants"

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

dieterdreist



2013/5/8 Jaakko Helleranta.com <[hidden email]>
And what should "cafes without seats" be tagged as then?
amenity=fast_drinks
amenity=cafe_bar
Or something else?



what is a cafe without seats? A bar? A drink booth / kiosk? You should tag it as what it is.
The wiki says: "amenity=cafe is for a generally informal place with sit-down facilities selling beverages and light meals and/or snacks."
not sure what a formal cafe should be tagged, and I honestly see no need to reduce the usage to "informal places", maybe we should change that? Regarding the seating requirement I'd keep it.

cheers,
Martin 

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Brian Wolford // Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=Jamba%20Juice
Right now there is a minor majority given to amenity=fast_food over cafe for the worlds Jamba Juices.

Is the argument out there that juice and smoothies should be considered food? Walk up, order at the counter food or drinks?


Perhaps going with fast_food, defining in cuisine, and using a seating=* tag? Or should there be a separate tag for only food counters w/o seating or a personal building?  Is it important to identify "fast_drinks" from "fast_food" besides with the cuisine=* tag?

Brian


On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:



2013/5/8 Jaakko Helleranta.com <[hidden email]>

And what should "cafes without seats" be tagged as then?
amenity=fast_drinks
amenity=cafe_bar
Or something else?



what is a cafe without seats? A bar? A drink booth / kiosk? You should tag it as what it is.
The wiki says: "amenity=cafe is for a generally informal place with sit-down facilities selling beverages and light meals and/or snacks."
not sure what a formal cafe should be tagged, and I honestly see no need to reduce the usage to "informal places", maybe we should change that? Regarding the seating requirement I'd keep it.

cheers,
Martin 

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Greg Troxel

"Brian Wolford // HOT" <[hidden email]> writes:

1> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=Jamba%20Juice
> Right now there is a minor majority given to amenity=fast_food over cafe
> for the worlds Jamba Juices.
>
> Is the argument out there that juice and smoothies should be considered
> food? Walk up, order at the counter food or drinks?

fast_food vs cafe is a bit controversial.   I agree with Serge that a
cafe should have seating, and some kind of food.  But it's ok if you
have to get it at the counter, and also normal if you order at the
counter and then sit and they bring it to you.

The real distinction in fast_food vs cafe in my mind is that fast_food
means things are pre-prepared more than they ought to be, and perhaps
tend to factory food vs real food, and tend to be a uniform chain kind
of thing.  cafe is more prepared appropriately from the real food
viewpoint, and food that a foodie would consider at least sort of
respectable.
That's perhaps an arbitrary line, but I find it pretty easy to draw in
practice.

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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Eric Sibert
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
> I'd not choose amenity=cafe if they don't sell besides the juice  
> also coffee. Look how quite specific the other tags are for places  
> where you can drink, eg biergarten, pub, cafe, bar, kiosk, nightclub  
>  ...

I'm wondering if the way we are coding different places where we can  
drink or eat is not too specific. May be, we should think about a more  
general model like:
amenity=drink_place/eat_place
seat=yes/no
indoor/outdoor
fast_food=yes/no
beverage
cuisine
operator
...
So renderer can easily handle a lot of cases. We can then add a tag to  
specify local cultural items:
drink_place:type=biergarten, pub, cafe, bar, kiosk...
but renderer can work without this last tag.

My 0,02 €

Eric


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Re: Juice "restaurants"

dieterdreist


Am 09.05.2013 um 15:20 schrieb Eric Sibert <[hidden email]>:

>> I'd not choose amenity=cafe if they don't sell besides the juice also coffee. Look how quite specific the other tags are for places where you can drink, eg biergarten, pub, cafe, bar, kiosk, nightclub  ...
>
> I'm wondering if the way we are coding different places where we can drink or eat is not too specific. May be, we should think about a more general model like:
> amenity=drink_place/eat_place
> seat=yes/no
> indoor/outdoor
> fast_food=yes/no
> beverage
> cuisine
> operator
> …



you can argue like this, but then I'd suggest to propose an alternative tagging scheme that is compatible with what we currently do (i.e. you use different keys for the new scheme so the 2 can coexist, don't use "amenity"). E.g. drinking_in-place=yes, eating_in-place=yes etc.
I doubt that we are still that open for fundamental changes in a field that is so widely tagged on a global level (implemented in editors, various maps, etc.).

cheers,
Martin
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Re: Juice "restaurants"

Gabriel6
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In reply to this post by Alexander Jones
Jamba juice is the best place to hang out with friends; there are a lot of juice varieties available. When I went there for first time I didn’t even know the names of Jamba juice secret menu. Now I usually go over there.
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Re: Juice "restaurants"

aloedrink
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In reply to this post by Alexander Jones
You can go to this site to see, which there are some drinks recipes made. www.okyalo.com
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