Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
73 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Joseph Eisenberg
Based on current practice, it seems that most people are ok with
adding new values to certain keys that already have a long list of
documented values in map features, as long as the tag is frequently
used and well-documented?

The relevant keys appear to be:

craft=
building=
office=
shop=
sport=

Are there any others that don't need a proposal to add a new value to
Map Features?

I'd like to mention this at the end of the Proposal Process page, as
the final lines of "Non-proposed features" like this:

"Generally, new [keys] should always be discussed before being added
to [Map features], and new tags in major keys like "highway=" should
be formally proposed. A proposal is also recommended for any new tag
which replaces an existing tag.

"However, if a tag is commonly used and clearly documented in the
wiki, and does not replace an existing tag, new values for certain
keys with can be added without a proposal to these keys: craft=,
building=, office=, shop= and sport=. Please discuss the new tag in a
public forum before adding to Map Features."

Does everyone agree with this wording?

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Warin
On 31/07/19 16:45, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

> Based on current practice, it seems that most people are ok with
> adding new values to certain keys that already have a long list of
> documented values in map features, as long as the tag is frequently
> used and well-documented?
>
> The relevant keys appear to be:
>
> craft=
> building=
> office=
> shop=
> sport=
>
> Are there any others that don't need a proposal to add a new value to
> Map Features?

There is no requirement for a proposal for values or keys of any kind.
A proposal is at best a 'recommendation', not a 'requirement'.

"Any tag you like" is one of the OSM mantras.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like

It is 'desirable' to consult others before creating new values or keys as this can lead to a better tag. But there is no requirement.



>
> I'd like to mention this at the end of the Proposal Process page, as
> the final lines of "Non-proposed features" like this:
>
> "Generally, new [keys] should always be discussed before being added
> to [Map features], and new tags in major keys like "highway=" should
> be formally proposed. A proposal is also recommended for any new tag
> which replaces an existing tag.
>
> "However, if a tag is commonly used and clearly documented in the
> wiki, and does not replace an existing tag, new values for certain
> keys with can be added without a proposal to these keys: craft=,
> building=, office=, shop= and sport=. Please discuss the new tag in a
> public forum before adding to Map Features."
>
> Does everyone agree with this wording?

Err No. It is misleading to say "new values for certain keys with can be added without a proposal" as new values can be add to any key without a proposal.
Indeed new keys can be added without a proposal.


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 31. Jul 2019, at 09:20, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There is no requirement for a proposal for values or keys of any kind.
> A proposal is at best a 'recommendation', not a 'requirement'.


+1

Cheers Martin

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Joseph Eisenberg
I apologize for the unclear wording. I'm not asking if a proposal is
needed for creating a new key or value. Anyone can make up a new tag,
and this happens hundreds of times a day.

I'm asking:

when should a new value should be added to the wiki page "Map Features".

The idea is that for a key like "shop=" or "office=", the key itself
is enough to define the feature for most purposes. Most map makers or
apps will just show one icon for all or most types of shop, and for
most types of office, so it's probably fine if users add more of these
to Map Features under "Shop" and "Office" - it won't cause any
problems.

Probably it still should be mentioned in a public forum at least once,
but a proposal would be a bit of a waste of time for a specialty tag
"shop=fountain_pens" (a shop specializing in selling fountain pens).

In contrast, I wouldn't have added "waterway=tidal_channel" to the 3
existing natural waterway types on Map Features without an approved
proposal, since that would be a major change to the whole tagging
system for waterways which requires community discussion.

On 7/31/19, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 31. Jul 2019, at 09:20, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> There is no requirement for a proposal for values or keys of any kind.
>> A proposal is at best a 'recommendation', not a 'requirement'.
>
>
> +1
>
> Cheers Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

marc marc
Le 31.07.19 à 10:50, Joseph Eisenberg a écrit :
> when should a new value should be added to the wiki page "Map Features".

imho when the key is :
- documented
- well used/supported
- not controversial
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 at 07:47, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Based on current practice, it seems that most people are ok with
adding new values to certain keys that already have a long list of
documented values in map features, as long as the tag is frequently
used and well-documented?

It depends, as others have already pointed out on this thread.  The wiki pages for some
keys, such as shop=* have a special value "user defined" which is "All commonly used
values according to Taginfo."  For those, it is implicit that values can be added without
discussion, if they meet certain criteria.  As ever, it ends up as "use your common
sense."

I'd also point out that at least one editor populates some of its drop-downs from Wiki
pages (more recently it uses the Wikidata in some cases).  This may be a factor in
your considerations.

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


sent from a phone

> On 31. Jul 2019, at 10:50, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> when should a new value should be added to the wiki page "Map Features".


only after it has become generally established :)

while none of these conditions are maybe absolute hard requirements, IMHO most of them should be fulfilled:

- is used in significant numbers by many different people
- has presets in different applications
- is used by at least one “important” data user (e.g. OpenStreetMap carto, routing service, osmand, etc.)
- is used on several continents and not just in a limited geographic area (otherwise it shouldn’t appear on the global map features list)
- has a definition and it is (largely ) undisputed

Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Joseph Eisenberg
> - is used in significant numbers by many different people
> - has presets in different applications
> - is used by at least one “important” data user (e.g. OpenStreetMap carto,
> routing service, osmand, etc.)
> - is used on several continents and not just in a limited geographic area
> (otherwise it shouldn’t appear on the global map features list)
> - has a definition and it is (largely ) undisputed

I used to think that these were requirements for all features. but
many values of shop=, building=, office= and even some types of
barriers= have been added without discussion when they are still
rarely used.

My thought was that we could clarify that certain types of new
features can be added to the Map Features pages without meeting all
those characteristics (shops, offices) but that other types shouldn't
be added without discussion.

If you want to be strict about those standards above, there are
several dozen tags that would need to be removed from Map Features.
I'm actually ok with that option, but it seems unnecessary for values
of keys where the key itself is enough for rendering and general
classification.

Joseph

On 7/31/19, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 31. Jul 2019, at 10:50, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> when should a new value should be added to the wiki page "Map Features".
>
>
> only after it has become generally established :)
>
> while none of these conditions are maybe absolute hard requirements, IMHO
> most of them should be fulfilled:
>
> - is used in significant numbers by many different people
> - has presets in different applications
> - is used by at least one “important” data user (e.g. OpenStreetMap carto,
> routing service, osmand, etc.)
> - is used on several continents and not just in a limited geographic area
> (otherwise it shouldn’t appear on the global map features list)
> - has a definition and it is (largely ) undisputed
>
> Cheers Martin
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

On 7/31/19, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 31. Jul 2019, at 10:50, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> when should a new value should be added to the wiki page "Map Features".
>
>
> only after it has become generally established :)
>
> while none of these conditions are maybe absolute hard requirements, IMHO
> most of them should be fulfilled:
>
> - is used in significant numbers by many different people
> - has presets in different applications
> - is used by at least one “important” data user (e.g. OpenStreetMap carto,
> routing service, osmand, etc.)
> - is used on several continents and not just in a limited geographic area
> (otherwise it shouldn’t appear on the global map features list)
> - has a definition and it is (largely ) undisputed
>
> Cheers Martin
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 31. Jul 2019, at 14:46, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My thought was that we could clarify that certain types of new
> features can be added to the Map Features pages without meeting all
> those characteristics (shops, offices) but that other types shouldn't
> be added without discussion.


I’m unsure about the map features page, although I occasionally pass by I have not really been using it for many years. My idea about it is that it is an introductory or summary page to explain the tagging system in principle, essentially aiming at newbies, so it shouldn’t be too long (which it clearly is at the moment). For finding tags I would recommend taginfo and the wiki search.


Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 at 22:37, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

only after it has become generally established :)

while none of these conditions are maybe absolute hard requirements, IMHO most of them should be fulfilled:

- is used in significant numbers by many different people 

But what are "generally established" & "significant numbers"?

500 / 1000 / 5000 ?

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 at 22:47, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
My thought was that we could clarify that certain types of new
features can be added to the Map Features pages without meeting all
those characteristics (shops, offices) but that other types shouldn't
be added without discussion.

Not a bad idea.

It would also be handy to have something very prominent up the top of the page to tell people to search via the Wiki box up top right, & also via TagInfo (with link), to see if an appropriate tag already exists.

Thanks

Graeme

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 1. Aug 2019, at 02:24, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But what are "generally established" & "significant numbers"?
>
> 500 / 1000 / 5000 ?


it may not only be about numbers (e.g. competing tags?) and it depends how frequent the feature is in the real world, and maybe also how relevant we consider it for the general public, e.g. tags about railway safety systems might not be suitable for the map features page even if all of them were mapped, because you need specialist knowledge to tag it.


Cheers Martin


Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Joseph Eisenberg
So I mentioned above that it seems that craft=, building=, office=,
shop= and sport= values are frequently added to the "Map Features"
list page without discussion.

Today a new wiki page was created for Tag:craft=artelier and the tag
was added to Template:Map_Features:craft, which adds this tag to the
Map Features page. It's been used 15 times. In comparison, studio=art
has been used 13 times, and studio=creative 17 times, but the author
of the new page mentions that this may be a problem because
amenity=studio is also used for TV, Radio and Music recording studios.

In American English I've heard of artist's studios or art workshops,
but I'd not heard the word "artelier" before today.  (Per Oxford
online, it's "A workshop or studio, especially one used by an artist
or designer.")

There are 3 craft=* values with even less usage on the page:

cooper - 5 uses
mint - 2 uses
piano_tuner - 12 uses

So, does this mean it is okay for craft=artelier to be added to the
official Map Features list? Should it be discussed first?

See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features:craft
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:craft%3Datelier

- Joseph

On 8/1/19, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 1. Aug 2019, at 02:24, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> But what are "generally established" & "significant numbers"?
>>
>> 500 / 1000 / 5000 ?
>
>
> it may not only be about numbers (e.g. competing tags?) and it depends how
> frequent the feature is in the real world, and maybe also how relevant we
> consider it for the general public, e.g. tags about railway safety systems
> might not be suitable for the map features page even if all of them were
> mapped, because you need specialist knowledge to tag it.
>
>
> Cheers Martin
>
>
> Cheers Martin
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 12:31, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Today a new wiki page was created for Tag:craft=artelier and the tag
was added to Template:Map_Features:craft, which adds this tag to the
Map Features page. It's been used 15 times. In comparison, studio=art
has been used 13 times, and studio=creative 17 times, but the author
of the new page mentions that this may be a problem because
amenity=studio is also used for TV, Radio and Music recording studios.

The last time I checked (a few days ago) the wiki stated that amenity=studio
is only for TV/Radio/Music studios.  For what I wanted to map,
amenity=arts_centre was the way to go.

In American English I've heard of artist's studios or art workshops,
but I'd not heard the word "artelier" before today.  (Per Oxford
online, it's "A workshop or studio, especially one used by an artist
or designer.")

Atelier is not common in British English either.  I'd never hear of it before.  It's
also a word that is prone to being mis-spelled as "artelier" it appears.

So, does this mean it is okay for craft=artelier to be added to the
official Map Features list? Should it be discussed first?

If somebody hadn't already decided that craft=painter meant house painters
rather than artists, I'd have said use that.  In fact, craft=painter makes no
sense for house painters, it should be office=painter (or, better, office=decorator).
If I want somebody to paint my house I expect him to apply paint to my house, not to his
own office, so he doesn't (normally) perform his craft in his own office. But it's probably
too late to fix that.  Well, we can (and probably should) deprecate craft=painter in favour of
office=decorator but it's probably too late to give a new meaning to craft=painter.

Since we have craft=sculptor and craft=handicraft, then for completeness we
need something for the studios of painters.  OTOH, do we need to map
any of those in the first place?  I've done so, but only in the cases where the
same building is used as both the place to create the works and as a shop
for those works, and that's because somebody who goes in to buy may be
given the opportunity to see the artist at work.

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Joseph Eisenberg
I can't believe I didn't notice the misspelling. Well, that is a major
problem with this value.

How about "craft=artist" then? The tag "craft=atelier" was described
as for any type of artist: "workshop of a ...professional artist in
the fine or decorative arts"

Wikipedia says "In art, the atelier consists of a master artist,
usually a professional painter, sculptor, or from the mid-19th century
a fine art photographer, working with a small number of students to
train them in visual or fine arts. This very word has also taken on
other similar meanings, indicating a place of work and study of the
haute couture fashion designer, hair stylist and artists in general"

The Key:craft page suggests that values should take the form of a
singular noun describing the craftsperson: "If using the English
language, please use the singular form, e.g. carpenter not carpenters"
- so "artist" or "designer" or "fine_art_painter" is better than a
word that describes the whole workshop/studio/building.

-Joseph

On 8/15/19, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 12:31, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Today a new wiki page was created for Tag:craft=artelier and the tag
>> was added to Template:Map_Features:craft, which adds this tag to the
>> Map Features page. It's been used 15 times. In comparison, studio=art
>> has been used 13 times, and studio=creative 17 times, but the author
>> of the new page mentions that this may be a problem because
>> amenity=studio is also used for TV, Radio and Music recording studios.
>>
>
> The last time I checked (a few days ago) the wiki stated that
> amenity=studio
> is only for TV/Radio/Music studios.  For what I wanted to map,
> amenity=arts_centre was the way to go.
>
> In American English I've heard of artist's studios or art workshops,
>> but I'd not heard the word "artelier" before today.  (Per Oxford
>> online, it's "A workshop or studio, especially one used by an artist
>> or designer.")
>>
>
> Atelier is not common in British English either.  I'd never hear of it
> before.  It's
> also a word that is prone to being mis-spelled as "artelier" it appears.
>
>>
>> So, does this mean it is okay for craft=artelier to be added to the
>> official Map Features list? Should it be discussed first?
>>
>
> If somebody hadn't already decided that craft=painter meant house painters
> rather than artists, I'd have said use that.  In fact, craft=painter makes
> no
> sense for house painters, it should be office=painter (or, better,
> office=decorator).
> If I want somebody to paint my house I expect him to apply paint to my
> house, not to his
> own office, so he doesn't (normally) perform his craft in his own office.
> But it's probably
> too late to fix that.  Well, we can (and probably should) deprecate
> craft=painter in favour of
> office=decorator but it's probably too late to give a new meaning to
> craft=painter.
>
> Since we have craft=sculptor and craft=handicraft, then for completeness we
> need something for the studios of painters.  OTOH, do we need to map
> any of those in the first place?  I've done so, but only in the cases where
> the
> same building is used as both the place to create the works and as a shop
> for those works, and that's because somebody who goes in to buy may be
> given the opportunity to see the artist at work.
>
> --
> Paul
>

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal

Tagging mailing list
In reply to this post by Warin
On 31/07/2019 08:20, Warin wrote:
>
> "Any tag you like" is one of the OSM mantras.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like

To be clearer it should be "Any tag you like.. to describe something
different"

If a valid tag is in use - use that.

Cheers
DaveF


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 14:28, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
I can't believe I didn't notice the misspelling. Well, that is a major
problem with this value.

Not so much if one uses editor presets.  The fact that so few know what it means is a bigger
problem, but potentially soluble via editor search functions.  Even so, if you type "artist" into
search and one of the returns is "atelier" would you use it?  Probably not unless you already
knew what it meant.

How about "craft=artist" then? The tag "craft=atelier" was described
as for any type of artist: "workshop of a ...professional artist in
the fine or decorative arts"

Because a sculptor is an artist.  There are many types of art.  If it had been suggested
before we already had craft=sculptor and the like then OK, because we could have
subtagged with art=*.  Maybe we should do that and deprecate the craft=*
values that are types of artist.

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


sent from a phone

> On 15. Aug 2019, at 13:29, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> of the new page mentions that this may be a problem because
> amenity=studio is also used for TV, Radio and Music recording studios.


yes, IMHO we should completely avoid the term “studio”, as it can refer to lots of different things and contexts (e.g. it may be used for small offices of all kind). We should make it something like recording_studio, or transmission_studio or television_studio or radio_studio or art_studio or film_studio etc.

Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Paul Allen


sent from a phone

> On 15. Aug 2019, at 14:16, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> sense for house painters, it should be office=painter (or, better, office=decorator).
> If I want somebody to paint my house I expect him to apply paint to my house, not to his
> own office, so he doesn't (normally) perform his craft in his own office.


I agree painter is ambiguous, but office is about an office, while the place of a decorator would probably not just be an office but contain all the tools and paint and stuff they need to do their work.

Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


sent from a phone

> On 15. Aug 2019, at 15:26, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How about "craft=artist" then? The tag "craft=atelier" was described
> as for any type of artist: "workshop of a ...professional artist in
> the fine or decorative arts"


I would not have thought to put artists into craft, usual values are not fitting all that well together with art, IMHO. Maybe we need a workshop  tag?
Office could also be considered.


Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 15:40, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree painter is ambiguous, but office is about an office, while the place of a decorator would probably not just be an office but contain all the tools and paint and stuff they need to do their work.

Yes, but under the current system (which is probably too deeply embedded to fix) an office can
be one of two basic types:

1) A place for doing paperwork or other administrative tasks.

2) A place selling services to the public.  Essentially a shop, but for non-physical items.

There are overlaps.  A call centre fits both of the above.

A decorator's "office" might well contain tools and consumables.  But the public would
not, in general, be expected to visit.  You don't dismantle your house and take the pieces
to a decorator's office to be painted, then take them back and reassemble them.  The
actual work of the decorator takes place elsewhere.  A sculptor, in general, carves stone
and wood in a place tagged craft=sculptor.  A sculptor might also do work at other
locations, but craft=sculptor is a studio/workshop and not, generally, for public
access.  A craft=painter (current meaning) is where paperwork is done and perhaps
where equipment is stored, but it is not where the actual craft of decorating takes place.

With hindsight we'd have designed a more consistent tagging scheme.  We have to do
the best we can with what we have.  We might be able to deprecate craft=painter,
though, since it's wrong on two counts: it's not a place where the craft activity takes
place and it would be better as "decorator" than the ambiguous "painter."

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
1234