Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

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Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Philippe Latulippe
Hello everyone!

I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
recently.

I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
map.

Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

Philippe

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Mateusz Konieczny-3
3 Nov 2019, 11:42 by [hidden email]:
Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

two ideas, both obvious and not panacea:

Make many unrelated edits. Your location would be still revealed, but not
specific places that you visited

------

Make new account from time to time, abandon old one and do not link them?

But that would require you to avoid inventing new tags (look, this tag was used by N users)
and to not participate in votes.

And this would likely make only slightly harder to link your edits.


quite old but AFAIK nothing changed here:
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/23027/multiple-accounts-allowed

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Maarten Deen
In reply to this post by Philippe Latulippe
On 2019-11-03 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:

> Hello everyone!
>
> I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
> my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
> reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
> edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
> history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
> If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
> else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
> recently.
>
> I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
> for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
> error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
> map.
>
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

What do you use your OSM username for? Is there any reason not to create
an anonymous username like anon65498?

I mean, sure your mailadres suggests your name is Philippe Latulippe and
I can find some people with that name on the internet, but how do I know
that is your real name and not an alias?

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Christoph Hormann-2
In reply to this post by Philippe Latulippe
On Sunday 03 November 2019, Philippe Latulippe wrote:
>
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

Your approach to this is the right one, creating and using different
user accounts in rotation.

I can think of three other ways for more enhanced privacy:

* swap user accounts with other users occasionally.  You should only do
that with people who you know and trust because this means you
essentially have a shared responsibility for your edits.  This is also
something that is not as universally accepted as having multiple user
accounts individually.

* you can request your account to be removed:

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_Policy#Account_Removal

You should not do that too often though since it is manual work for the
admins.

* deliberately plan and conduct your mapping activities separately from
your private life.  That might sound strange and inconvenient but it is
not actually that different from what people do in everyday life.  If
you visit a public event of some sort you will conduct yourself
different from when you are in your own living room.  In a similar
fashion it can make sense to plan and conduct mapping activities
differently from when you are having a private hike or similar.


With all of this however you should always keep in mind that any
measures to hide your editing patterns are in an inherent conflict with
a functioning social interaction within the mapper community.  People
tend to respect the need for privacy and tolerate measures to protect
that but it can be problematic in communication with fellow mappers as
well.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Geofabrik Download server maintains privacy | Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

ebel
In reply to this post by Philippe Latulippe
On 03.11.19 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

It might interest you to know that on the Geofabrik download server (
https://download.geofabrik.de/ ), the public files don't have usernames,
user ids, or changeset ids, to preserve privacy. Some use cases need
this detail, which is available under stricter conditions with an
OpenStreetMap login account ( https://osm-internal.download.geofabrik.de/ ).

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Re: Geofabrik Download server maintains privacy | Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

James-2
but lets be honest, if there was a malicious entity that wanted to find out where he lived, an OpenStreetMap account isnt really a barrier to entry.

On Sun., Nov. 3, 2019, 6:31 a.m. Rory McCann, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03.11.19 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

It might interest you to know that on the Geofabrik download server (
https://download.geofabrik.de/ ), the public files don't have usernames,
user ids, or changeset ids, to preserve privacy. Some use cases need
this detail, which is available under stricter conditions with an
OpenStreetMap login account ( https://osm-internal.download.geofabrik.de/ ).

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Oleksiy Muzalyev
In reply to this post by Philippe Latulippe
You can assist from time to time in mapping the areas were there is one
or another trouble, like a military conflict, or a natural or
technogenic disaster. The list can be found here:
https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL

This way it would be not easy to figure out in which place you live.

Frankly, I do not like an idea of creating the multiple "ghost"
accounts. These databases are maintained by volunteers, often on
shoestring budget. If everyone from a million mappers will create
several accounts than the database's table will have not a million rows,
what is already quite a lot, but several millions. The superfluous data
on the hard disks means also additional electrical energy.

Best regards,
Oleksiy (Alex-7@OSM)

On 11/3/19 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:

> Hello everyone!
>
> I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
> my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
> reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
> edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
> history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
> If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
> else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
> recently.
>
> I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
> for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
> error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
> map.
>
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?
>
> Philippe
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

General Discussion mailing list
In reply to this post by Philippe Latulippe

I find myself being stalked by one mapper, (using the stalking tools, WHODIDIT:

 

OpenStreetMap Changeset Analyzer and mapbox/osmcha)

 

who clams edit ownership over a 3,000 sq. mile bus system, who is at least 20 miles

 

away from me, and i am on the ground mapping, (in my profile, shows mappers up to

 

8 km away 4 + miles and not one of them is a mapper and have tried to friend me ?)

 

and sending me messages that i am wrong  and re editing every thing i do

 

in this catorry.

 

i am on the standard map, iD (in-browser editor) and he appears to be in the transit map

 

which he has copied the routes from yahoo.

 
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper
 
On 2019-11-03 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:

> Hello everyone!
>
> I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
> my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
> reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
> edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
> history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
> If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
> else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
> recently.
>
> I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
> for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
> error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
> map.
>
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

What do you use your OSM username for? Is there any reason not to create
an anonymous username like anon65498?

I mean, sure your mailadres suggests your name is Philippe Latulippe and
I can find some people with that name on the internet, but how do I know
that is your real name and not an alias?

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Blake Girardot
In reply to this post by Philippe Latulippe
Hi Philippe,

The number one thing you should do is make sure your username here on
OSM is not in any way related to any other name or nick name you use
in other places.

I am well aware that the lifetime pattern of my mapping, tied to my
public information is essentially a map to the places I live, work and
recreate.

I am not happy about it and I could get my osm username changed, but
that is not really adequate as anyone who has a record of my username
and osm userid number over the past 10 years, can still select all of
my edits. But in the long run, it is still worth it to me to
contribute data to OSM, as I have gotten a lot out of OSM and other
open data and software projects. I also estimate my risk as pretty low
anyway.

If you have a username that is tied to a public or other used name of
some sort, my advice is to ask the user name to be changed. Then never
use that account again, and get one that is from the start totally
anonymous. If you do not mind using your existing gmail account,
assuming you signed up using one, use the gmail "+something" (the
actual plus symbol goes in) email address feature so you can sign up
for a new OSM account. Google for how to do that "gmail + email
addresses" or something should

I strongly feel that no matter what you do in OSM, you eventually make
a map to your locations in the physical world.

I advise people, especially people in groups at greater risk for
harassing or stalking, never use an osm username related to any other
name or other identifying information you have ever used.

Cheers, and thank you for mapping!

Blake


On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 5:47 AM Philippe Latulippe
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello everyone!
>
> I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
> my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
> reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
> edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
> history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
> If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
> else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
> recently.
>
> I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
> for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
> error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
> map.
>
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?
>
> Philippe
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



--
----------------------------------------------------
Blake Girardot
"When I checked the My edits are Public Domain box, I meant it and I still do."
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Mark Wagner
In reply to this post by Oleksiy Muzalyev
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 16:55:43 +0100
Oleksiy Muzalyev <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can assist from time to time in mapping the areas were there is
> one or another trouble, like a military conflict, or a natural or
> technogenic disaster. The list can be found here:
> https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL
>
> This way it would be not easy to figure out in which place you live.

Unless you're mapping the exact same things remotely as you are
locally, this doesn't stop anything but the most naive effort to figure
out where someone lives.  If a mapper is tracing buildings in Zimbabwe
and adding restaurants in London, which is more likely: that they live
in Zimbabwe and are armchair-mapping in London, or that they live in
London, and are armchair-mapping in Zimbabwe?

--
Mark

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Andrew Hain
In reply to this post by General Discussion mailing list
Have you talked to the Data Working Group about this?

--
Andrew

From: 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk <[hidden email]>
Sent: 03 November 2019 16:47
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper
 

I find myself being stalked by one mapper, (using the stalking tools, WHODIDIT:

 

OpenStreetMap Changeset Analyzer and mapbox/osmcha)

 

who clams edit ownership over a 3,000 sq. mile bus system, who is at least 20 miles

 

away from me, and i am on the ground mapping, (in my profile, shows mappers up to

 

8 km away 4 + miles and not one of them is a mapper and have tried to friend me ?)

 

and sending me messages that i am wrong  and re editing every thing i do

 

in this catorry.

 

i am on the standard map, iD (in-browser editor) and he appears to be in the transit map

 

which he has copied the routes from yahoo.

 
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper
 
On 2019-11-03 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
> my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
> reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
> edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
> history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
> If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
> else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
> recently.
>
> I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
> for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
> error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
> map.
>
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

What do you use your OSM username for? Is there any reason not to create
an anonymous username like anon65498?

I mean, sure your mailadres suggests your name is Philippe Latulippe and
I can find some people with that name on the internet, but how do I know
that is your real name and not an alias?

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Oleksiy Muzalyev
In reply to this post by Mark Wagner
On 11/3/19 21:11, Mark Wagner wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 16:55:43 +0100
> Oleksiy Muzalyev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You can assist from time to time in mapping the areas were there is
>> one or another trouble, like a military conflict, or a natural or
>> technogenic disaster. The list can be found here:
>> https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL
>>
>> This way it would be not easy to figure out in which place you live.
> Unless you're mapping the exact same things remotely as you are
> locally, this doesn't stop anything but the most naive effort to figure
> out where someone lives.  If a mapper is tracing buildings in Zimbabwe
> and adding restaurants in London, which is more likely: that they live
> in Zimbabwe and are armchair-mapping in London, or that they live in
> London, and are armchair-mapping in Zimbabwe?
>
Certainly, it is the STO, security through obscurity, the same as an
anonymous user name or a rarely used e-mail for registration. For
instance, the identity still can be easily found via the IP address if
the authorities are involved in some way.

The really good idea is not to do and not to write things online which
one would not say publicly in person, even if the user name seems to be
anonymous.

However, there is a risk in not taking the risk. For example, what
seemingly could be safer than to watch TV sitting in the armchair? At
the same time the top global cause of death is the ischemic heart
disease which can be prevented by physical exercise.

In a similar way there is some risk not only in mapping, but also in
not-mapping well the district.

ref.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Best regards,

Oleksiy


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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

General Discussion mailing list
In reply to this post by Philippe Latulippe
yes,
 
it gets complicated in we are both in the usa and the standards appear to be coming from europe and Canada,
 
by the way the wiki’s are written, but you would think he would let me do my adds, where he has not been
 
instead of following me around and re editing me. since i am not on his transportation map.
 
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper
 
Have you talked to the Data Working Group about this?
 
--
Andrew

From: 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk <[hidden email]>
Sent: 03 November 2019 16:47
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper
 

I find myself being stalked by one mapper, (using the stalking tools, WHODIDIT:

 

OpenStreetMap Changeset Analyzer and mapbox/osmcha)

 

who clams edit ownership over a 3,000 sq. mile bus system, who is at least 20 miles

 

away from me, and i am on the ground mapping, (in my profile, shows mappers up to

 

8 km away 4 + miles and not one of them is a mapper and have tried to friend me ?)

 

and sending me messages that i am wrong  and re editing every thing i do

 

in this catorry.

 

i am on the standard map, iD (in-browser editor) and he appears to be in the transit map

 

which he has copied the routes from yahoo.

 
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper
 
On 2019-11-03 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:

> Hello everyone!
>
> I like to improve OSM casually, making small fixes as I use the map in
> my day-to-day life. However, doing so without any precautions would
> reveal a great deal of information about where I've been, since my
> edits cover exactly the places where I'm active. A look at my edit
> history would reveal where I live, where I work, where I've traveled.
> If last night I had added a detailed POI of a restaurant and nothing
> else, one could correctly assume that I was at that restaurant
> recently.
>
> I've managed to protect my privacy somewhat by creating one account
> for every neighbourhood I want to map. This is time consuming and
> error prone, and it's held me back from making improvements to the
> map.
>
> Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> doesn't reveal my username to regular users?

What do you use your OSM username for? Is there any reason not to create
an anonymous username like anon65498?

I mean, sure your mailadres suggests your name is Philippe Latulippe and
I can find some people with that name on the internet, but how do I know
that is your real name and not an alias?

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Blake Girardot


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 3 nov 2019, alle ore 19:22, Blake Girardot <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> If you do not mind using your existing gmail account,
> assuming you signed up using one, use the gmail "+something" (the
> actual plus symbol goes in) email address feature so you can sign up
> for a new OSM account. Google for how to do that "gmail + email
> addresses" or something should


it depends from whom you hide, but generally you should not use a traceable email account if you want to remain anonymous. Using Google would seem like a total no-go (they are even reserving the right to read your emails). Use a live distro like tails (tor browser, spoofs browser a system details, etc. ), do not connect from your home or someone else’s home or any other places that you are related to, do not use a third party login but create a new account for every edit you make and use throw away email addresses for signup. Use generic user names and email addresses created by a random string generator, only use the most common tools like iD and maybe josm, do not use rarely used tags, avoid changeset comments and other free text fields like description and note.

This would still reveal something about you (e.g. technology affinity), but it would not be sufficient alone to identify you.

On the other hand, it would also make it impossible or practically impossible to participate in comunity discussions, get information about y  changeset comments, messages etc. If everybody would do it, OpenStreetMap would likely not work anymore, because the community aspect is key to our success, and complete anonymity kills the community.
Creating a new account for every edit and refraining from edits with mobile devices also makes it more tedious to edit the map, although this could probably be automated.

Consider the above for edits in sensitive areas and loosen the precautions when it is less critical. ;)

Cheers Martin
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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

SimonPoole

Am 03.11.2019 um 23:08 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> ...
> it depends from whom you hide, but generally you should not use a traceable email account if you want to remain anonymous. Using Google would seem like a total no-go (they are even reserving the right to read your emails). Use a live distro like tails (tor browser, spoofs browser a system details, etc. ), do not connect from your home or someone else’s home or any other places that you are related to, do not use a third party login but create a new account for every edit you make and use throw away email addresses for signup. Use generic user names and email addresses created by a random string generator, only use the most common tools like iD and maybe josm, do not use rarely used tags, avoid changeset comments and other free text fields like description and note.

Note, lots of the above would be violations of our ToU, and outside of
that, neither desirable nor a good idea.

IRL editing on OSM is very near to publishing a blog post or similar,
something you are doing in public with the intent  of the results being
public and there are limits to how far you can do this in an anonymous
fashion. If you can't live with the resulting consequences I would
suggest not contributing in any larger fashion.



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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

dieterdreist


Am Mo., 4. Nov. 2019 um 09:32 Uhr schrieb Simon Poole <[hidden email]>:

Am 03.11.2019 um 23:08 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> ...
> it depends from whom you hide, but generally you should not use a traceable email account if you want to remain anonymous. Using Google would seem like a total no-go (they are even reserving the right to read your emails). Use a live distro like tails (tor browser, spoofs browser a system details, etc. ), do not connect from your home or someone else’s home or any other places that you are related to, do not use a third party login but create a new account for every edit you make and use throw away email addresses for signup. Use generic user names and email addresses created by a random string generator, only use the most common tools like iD and maybe josm, do not use rarely used tags, avoid changeset comments and other free text fields like description and note.

Note, lots of the above would be violations of our ToU, and outside of
that, neither desirable nor a good idea.


I agree, this was not meant to suggest a general modus operandi for all your edits, rather making some publicity for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Intelligence
Just one instance in 3 years tagged with this, and no competing scheme ;-)

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Maarten Deen
In reply to this post by SimonPoole
On 2019-11-04 09:28, Simon Poole wrote:

> Am 03.11.2019 um 23:08 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>> ...
>> it depends from whom you hide, but generally you should not use a
>> traceable email account if you want to remain anonymous. Using Google
>> would seem like a total no-go (they are even reserving the right to
>> read your emails). Use a live distro like tails (tor browser, spoofs
>> browser a system details, etc. ), do not connect from your home or
>> someone else’s home or any other places that you are related to, do
>> not use a third party login but create a new account for every edit
>> you make and use throw away email addresses for signup. Use generic
>> user names and email addresses created by a random string generator,
>> only use the most common tools like iD and maybe josm, do not use
>> rarely used tags, avoid changeset comments and other free text fields
>> like description and note.
>
> Note, lots of the above would be violations of our ToU, and outside of
> that, neither desirable nor a good idea.

Lots? Care to elaborate on that? Where are the ToU, is it
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use_-_Discussion_Draft>
(to which I can have some comments too)?

To break down:
1) not use a traceable email account
2) not use Google
3) Use a live distro
4) do not connect from your home or someone else’s home or any other
places that you are related to
5) do not use a third party login but create a new account for every
edit you make
6) use throw away email addresses for signup
7) Use generic user names and email addresses created by a random string
generator,
8) only use the most common tools like iD and maybe josm
9) do not use rarely used tags
10) avoid changeset comments
11) and other free text fields like description and note.

1-4, 8, 9 and 11 surely can not be blocked by the ToU
5-7 maybe, but 7 is not enforcable anyway (well, you can see true random
but can not see chosen random)
10 is chosen to be bad practice

In any case, if the link I posted are the ToU, I don't see any of those
points being a violation of the ToU. In the case of the account, where
the ToU says "You represent and warrant that the information you provide
to OSMF upon registration and, at all other times, will be true,
accurate, current, and complete" it is an empty point since there is no
verifiable information I _have_ to enter into my account. Just a screen
name (not my legal name) and an email address.
Further items like my location and a profile description are optional.

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

SimonPoole

Am 04.11.2019 um 10:03 schrieb Maarten Deen:

> On 2019-11-04 09:28, Simon Poole wrote:
>> Am 03.11.2019 um 23:08 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>>> ...
>>> it depends from whom you hide, but generally you should not use a
>>> traceable email account if you want to remain anonymous. Using
>>> Google would seem like a total no-go (they are even reserving the
>>> right to read your emails). Use a live distro like tails (tor
>>> browser, spoofs browser a system details, etc. ), do not connect
>>> from your home or someone else’s home or any other places that you
>>> are related to, do not use a third party login but create a new
>>> account for every edit you make and use throw away email addresses
>>> for signup. Use generic user names and email addresses created by a
>>> random string generator, only use the most common tools like iD and
>>> maybe josm, do not use rarely used tags, avoid changeset comments
>>> and other free text fields like description and note.
>>
>> Note, lots of the above would be violations of our ToU, and outside of
>> that, neither desirable nor a good idea.
>
> Lots? Care to elaborate on that? Where are the ToU, is it
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use_-_Discussion_Draft>
> (to which I can have some comments too)?
>
> ..........
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use  and linked to from the
sign up page, and from the map page. There where multiple opportunity
last year to comment on the draft (which has nothing to do with the old
wiki page you linked too), which you seemed to have not used, even
though it was widely announced.


>
> In any case, if the link I posted are the ToU, I don't see any of
> those points being a violation of the ToU. In the case of the account,
> where the ToU says "You represent and warrant that the information you
> provide to OSMF upon registration and, at all other times, will be
> true, accurate, current, and complete" it is an empty point since
> there is no verifiable information I _have_ to enter into my account.
> Just a screen name (not my legal name) and an email address.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#II._Privacy requires
you to keep your contact information (which is currently your e-mail
address) current. This is not really new as it was implied by doing away
with anonymous edits in 2007.

> Further items like my location and a profile description are optional.
>
To be clear certain risk reduction measures are completely OK and we
outline these in the privacy policy, what is not OK is anything that
amounts to de facto making the edits anonymous to the OSMF.

Simon




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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Andy Mabbett
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 11:17, Simon Poole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 04.11.2019 um 10:03 schrieb Maarten Deen:

> > the ToU says "You represent and warrant that the information you
> > provide to OSMF upon registration and, at all other times, will be
> > true, accurate, current, and complete"

> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#II._Privacy requires
> you to keep your contact information (which is currently your e-mail
> address) current. This is not really new as it was implied by doing away
> with anonymous edits in 2007.

Good luck enforcing that for someone who hasn't edited for a decade or more.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

Maarten Deen
In reply to this post by SimonPoole
On 2019-11-04 12:17, Simon Poole wrote:

> Am 04.11.2019 um 10:03 schrieb Maarten Deen:
>> On 2019-11-04 09:28, Simon Poole wrote:
>>> Am 03.11.2019 um 23:08 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>>>> ...
>>>> it depends from whom you hide, but generally you should not use a
>>>> traceable email account if you want to remain anonymous. Using
>>>> Google would seem like a total no-go (they are even reserving the
>>>> right to read your emails). Use a live distro like tails (tor
>>>> browser, spoofs browser a system details, etc. ), do not connect
>>>> from your home or someone else’s home or any other places that you
>>>> are related to, do not use a third party login but create a new
>>>> account for every edit you make and use throw away email addresses
>>>> for signup. Use generic user names and email addresses created by a
>>>> random string generator, only use the most common tools like iD and
>>>> maybe josm, do not use rarely used tags, avoid changeset comments
>>>> and other free text fields like description and note.
>>>
>>> Note, lots of the above would be violations of our ToU, and outside
>>> of
>>> that, neither desirable nor a good idea.
>>
>> Lots? Care to elaborate on that? Where are the ToU, is it
>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use_-_Discussion_Draft>
>> (to which I can have some comments too)?
>>
>> ..........
>
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use  and linked to from
> the
> sign up page, and from the map page. There where multiple opportunity
> last year to comment on the draft (which has nothing to do with the old
> wiki page you linked too), which you seemed to have not used, even
> though it was widely announced.

I have not used no. I generally don't concern myself with such things
because my views are generally not the views of people making these
policies (and are therefore usually ignored).

I was searching for it on the wiki and that was the only one I found. I
thought it was a bit stale since it wasn't touched since 2009 and no
discussion followed there.
In any case, I see that the "You must be 13 years or older to use the
Services." is still there.
Really? Someone under 13 can not look at the OSM map? I'm sorry, but
that is completely laughable. And not enforcable at all. Maybe you
should put a PG-13 sign on the map ;)
Also: 16 and 17 year old are also still a minor, even in the UK, and
they are not blocked from anything in the ToU?

>> In any case, if the link I posted are the ToU, I don't see any of
>> those points being a violation of the ToU. In the case of the account,
>> where the ToU says "You represent and warrant that the information you
>> provide to OSMF upon registration and, at all other times, will be
>> true, accurate, current, and complete" it is an empty point since
>> there is no verifiable information I _have_ to enter into my account.
>> Just a screen name (not my legal name) and an email address.
>
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#II._Privacy requires
> you to keep your contact information (which is currently your e-mail
> address) current. This is not really new as it was implied by doing
> away
> with anonymous edits in 2007.

That is in no way a strange request. Yes, it more or less precludes
throwaway email adresses (you are at least required to respond I guess)
but it does not preclude using an anonymous email adress.

>> Further items like my location and a profile description are optional.
>>
> To be clear certain risk reduction measures are completely OK and we
> outline these in the privacy policy, what is not OK is anything that
> amounts to de facto making the edits anonymous to the OSMF.

It was more your assertion that "lots" of the items given would be
violations of the ToU where I come to 3 out of 11 that might be.
I still don't see where the lots comes from, you didn't care to
elaborate on that.

Regards,
Maarten

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