Map3D in UDIG

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Map3D in UDIG

eline lachat
Hi all,

We are planning a development of 3D capabilities on uDIG using OSGVirtualPlanets (osgvp http://www.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-commons/osgvp) into UDIG. osgVP is a 3D framework based on OpenSceneGraph for GIS development in Java.

We think follow this way to integrate the 3D viewers into Udig:
- Make a Map3D element that is like a MapImpl (the Map3D implementation is almost the same that a Map implementation)
- Make an Eclipse Editor Part that is associated to the new element Map3D. An editor already exists in OSGVP, so we want to extend it.
- To pass the layer events on the layerManager of the OSGVP to draw the layer.

We think that the best way is to reuse the MaplImp element because the map3D is almost the same. We'd like use it in the existing Editor developped in OSGVP.
We are developing the Map3DEditor and we would like to know if the plan of work correponds to the best solution.

The goal of the integration is to can use every functionnalities of a Map in a Map3D.

Best regards,

Eline






_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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Re: Map3D in UDIG

Jody Garnett-2
That is fun news; please see another conversation two weeks ago where
I covered intergration options with another team doing the same sort
of idea.

To review:
- do not target MapImpl that is the data structure
- there is a single component to look at - MapViewer which sets itself
up to use different widgets depending on the constants provided during
contstruction; make 3D a supported constant

It really is very exciting to have two teams looking at scene graph
based solutions; the other team was looking at Java3D which also scene
graph based. In my own commercial work I saw a 40% improvement going
from hand built OpenGL to Java3D back when it was alpha technology.

I am happy to review any design documentation posted to the udig HACK
wiki space; especially if the work is being done in a community
module. You should also consider dropping by the uDig IRC channel for
the friday meeting - I would be pleased to go over some options with
you. Beyond these public forums I would need to look up my consulting
rates for you (yes open source is not free in every sense of the
word).

Can you do me a favour and use nabble to look up the earlier
conversation on this topic; it would save us both some time.

Welcome and happy hacking,
Jody

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:11 PM, eline lachat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We are planning a development of 3D capabilities on uDIG using
> OSGVirtualPlanets (osgvp
> http://www.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-commons/osgvp) into UDIG. osgVP is a
> 3D framework based on OpenSceneGraph for GIS development in Java.
>
> We think follow this way to integrate the 3D viewers into Udig:
> - Make a Map3D element that is like a MapImpl (the Map3D implementation is
> almost the same that a Map implementation)
> - Make an Eclipse Editor Part that is associated to the new element Map3D.
> An editor already exists in OSGVP, so we want to extend it.
> - To pass the layer events on the layerManager of the OSGVP to draw the
> layer.
>
> We think that the best way is to reuse the MaplImp element because the map3D
> is almost the same. We'd like use it in the existing Editor developped in
> OSGVP.
> We are developing the Map3DEditor and we would like to know if the plan of
> work correponds to the best solution.
>
> The goal of the integration is to can use every functionnalities of a Map in
> a Map3D.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Eline
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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AW: Map3D in UDIG

Wellmann, Harald-2
I assume the other approach Jody is referring to is mine.

I've made some progress, but things are still too experimental to write up a Wiki page, let alone publish sources.

Anyway, my team is trying to integrate Java3D, and we are not planning to consider any other 3D frameworks. osgVP is out of the question for us due to its GPL license. uDig is LGPL, so I guess that any add-on with an incompatible license will never make it into uDig trunk.

The current status of my prototype:

- A ViewportPaneJava3D wraps a Canvas3D (by means of SWT_AWT) and a VirtualUniverse. This Pane is used as a replacement for the default ViewportPaneSWT.

- An interface IMapDisplay3D extends IMapDisplay to provide access to the VirtualUniverse.

- A Java3DFeatureRenderer retrieves the IMapDisplay from the RenderContext, downcasts it to IMapDisplay3D, accesses the VirtualUniverse and creates a new BranchGroup with a Shape3D for each feature from the corresponding map layer.

- A ViewportModelListener receives viewport changes and updates the Java3D ViewingPlatform transform.

It shouldn't be too hard to fill in the missing bits under the assumption that the entire map is small enough to be kept in memory and to be rendered into the scenegraph once when the map is created.

And I'm ignoring styles for the time being.

I'm busy with other things currently, but I hope I'll be able to provide more details after Easter.

Best regards,

Harald



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] im Auftrag von Jody Garnett
Gesendet: Di 24.03.2009 14:45
An: User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS
Cc:
Betreff: Re: [udig-devel] Map3D in UDIG

That is fun news; please see another conversation two weeks ago where
I covered intergration options with another team doing the same sort
of idea.

To review:
- do not target MapImpl that is the data structure
- there is a single component to look at - MapViewer which sets itself
up to use different widgets depending on the constants provided during
contstruction; make 3D a supported constant

It really is very exciting to have two teams looking at scene graph
based solutions; the other team was looking at Java3D which also scene
graph based. In my own commercial work I saw a 40% improvement going
from hand built OpenGL to Java3D back when it was alpha technology.

I am happy to review any design documentation posted to the udig HACK
wiki space; especially if the work is being done in a community
module. You should also consider dropping by the uDig IRC channel for
the friday meeting - I would be pleased to go over some options with
you. Beyond these public forums I would need to look up my consulting
rates for you (yes open source is not free in every sense of the
word).

Can you do me a favour and use nabble to look up the earlier
conversation on this topic; it would save us both some time.

Welcome and happy hacking,
Jody

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:11 PM, eline lachat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We are planning a development of 3D capabilities on uDIG using
> OSGVirtualPlanets (osgvp
> http://www.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-commons/osgvp) into UDIG. osgVP is a
> 3D framework based on OpenSceneGraph for GIS development in Java.
>
> We think follow this way to integrate the 3D viewers into Udig:
> - Make a Map3D element that is like a MapImpl (the Map3D implementation is
> almost the same that a Map implementation)
> - Make an Eclipse Editor Part that is associated to the new element Map3D.
> An editor already exists in OSGVP, so we want to extend it.
> - To pass the layer events on the layerManager of the OSGVP to draw the
> layer.
>
> We think that the best way is to reuse the MaplImp element because the map3D
> is almost the same. We'd like use it in the existing Editor developped in
> OSGVP.
> We are developing the Map3DEditor and we would like to know if the plan of
> work correponds to the best solution.
>
> The goal of the integration is to can use every functionnalities of a Map in
> a Map3D.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Eline
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel 
 
*******************************************
innovative systems GmbH Navigation-Multimedia
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Edwin Summers - Kevin Brown
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg - Registergericht: Hamburg HRB 59980
 
*******************************************
Diese E-Mail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtuemlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und loeschen Sie diese Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist nicht gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the contents in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
*******************************************

_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel

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Re: Map3D in UDIG

Jody Garnett-2
That is great news that your prototype is proceeding Harald. Indeed I
am glad the design I expressed is helpful - it is nice when the pieces
slot together.

One thing I do want to check with you (or that I am hoping to learn
from your prototype) is this: Doe we need to keep the navigation tool
factory?

Here is my thought:
- I "invented" the nav tool factory before there was need (ie that is
a mistake!) as such i wanted to remove it - since currently it is not
earning its keep and I have no hard evidence that it is a good
approach. Your prototype could supply me with that evidence if you can
see the use of it
- Do you need custom navigational tools (pan / zoom / etc...) or are
the existing tools that directly manipulate the viewport model going
to be enough?

The reason I ask is that I tried to separate out navigation tools into
a factory just so we could make a 3D viewer and have the viewer supply
the functionality for pan / zoom / sping etc...

On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Wellmann, Harald
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I assume the other approach Jody is referring to is mine.
>
> I've made some progress, but things are still too experimental to write up a Wiki page, let alone publish sources.
>
> Anyway, my team is trying to integrate Java3D, and we are not planning to consider any other 3D frameworks. osgVP is out of the question for us due to its GPL license. uDig is LGPL, so I guess that any add-on with an incompatible license will never make it into uDig trunk.
>
> The current status of my prototype:
>
> - A ViewportPaneJava3D wraps a Canvas3D (by means of SWT_AWT) and a VirtualUniverse. This Pane is used as a replacement for the default ViewportPaneSWT.
>
> - An interface IMapDisplay3D extends IMapDisplay to provide access to the VirtualUniverse.
>
> - A Java3DFeatureRenderer retrieves the IMapDisplay from the RenderContext, downcasts it to IMapDisplay3D, accesses the VirtualUniverse and creates a new BranchGroup with a Shape3D for each feature from the corresponding map layer.
>
> - A ViewportModelListener receives viewport changes and updates the Java3D ViewingPlatform transform.
>
> It shouldn't be too hard to fill in the missing bits under the assumption that the entire map is small enough to be kept in memory and to be rendered into the scenegraph once when the map is created.
>
> And I'm ignoring styles for the time being.
>
> I'm busy with other things currently, but I hope I'll be able to provide more details after Easter.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Harald
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von:    [hidden email] im Auftrag von Jody Garnett
> Gesendet:       Di 24.03.2009 14:45
> An:     User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS
> Cc:
> Betreff:        Re: [udig-devel] Map3D in UDIG
>
> That is fun news; please see another conversation two weeks ago where
> I covered intergration options with another team doing the same sort
> of idea.
>
> To review:
> - do not target MapImpl that is the data structure
> - there is a single component to look at - MapViewer which sets itself
> up to use different widgets depending on the constants provided during
> contstruction; make 3D a supported constant
>
> It really is very exciting to have two teams looking at scene graph
> based solutions; the other team was looking at Java3D which also scene
> graph based. In my own commercial work I saw a 40% improvement going
> from hand built OpenGL to Java3D back when it was alpha technology.
>
> I am happy to review any design documentation posted to the udig HACK
> wiki space; especially if the work is being done in a community
> module. You should also consider dropping by the uDig IRC channel for
> the friday meeting - I would be pleased to go over some options with
> you. Beyond these public forums I would need to look up my consulting
> rates for you (yes open source is not free in every sense of the
> word).
>
> Can you do me a favour and use nabble to look up the earlier
> conversation on this topic; it would save us both some time.
>
> Welcome and happy hacking,
> Jody
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:11 PM, eline lachat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are planning a development of 3D capabilities on uDIG using
>> OSGVirtualPlanets (osgvp
>> http://www.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-commons/osgvp) into UDIG. osgVP is a
>> 3D framework based on OpenSceneGraph for GIS development in Java.
>>
>> We think follow this way to integrate the 3D viewers into Udig:
>> - Make a Map3D element that is like a MapImpl (the Map3D implementation is
>> almost the same that a Map implementation)
>> - Make an Eclipse Editor Part that is associated to the new element Map3D.
>> An editor already exists in OSGVP, so we want to extend it.
>> - To pass the layer events on the layerManager of the OSGVP to draw the
>> layer.
>>
>> We think that the best way is to reuse the MaplImp element because the map3D
>> is almost the same. We'd like use it in the existing Editor developped in
>> OSGVP.
>> We are developing the Map3DEditor and we would like to know if the plan of
>> work correponds to the best solution.
>>
>> The goal of the integration is to can use every functionnalities of a Map in
>> a Map3D.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Eline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
> *******************************************
> innovative systems GmbH Navigation-Multimedia
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Edwin Summers - Kevin Brown
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg - Registergericht: Hamburg HRB 59980
>
> *******************************************
> Diese E-Mail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtuemlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und loeschen Sie diese Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist nicht gestattet.
> This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the contents in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
> *******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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Re: Map3D in UDIG

Rafa Gaitan
Hi Jody et all,

Thanks for the quick response, I'm a collegue of Eline working in the development of  osgVP framework. We have read previous posts, that's why we wanted to mention our development on the list to know if it's possible to merge efforts.

As Harald said, we aren't LGPL, we know that is quite difficult to integrate our development in the uDIG trunk. Our planning is use uDIG and our framework to do researching, because we are working inside university.

We discarded Java3D at the beginning of our work (three years ago), but we have done a good progress integrating OpenSceneGraph inside Java and we have a complete set of GIS tools to render in 3D (paged terrains, 3D symbology, 3D vectorial edition, Stereo viewing etc...), all this tools thankfully to the OpenSceneGraph library that is a very modern scenegraph.

The reason I ask is that I tried to separate out navigation tools into
a factory just so we could make a 3D viewer and have the viewer supply
the functionality for pan / zoom / sping etc...

We have a ViewerEditor in our framework that integrates without problems inside eclipse applications, and it contributes with the specific tools to do panning, zoom, and tilt and other helpfull things.

Maybe we need to study more in depth the MapViewer you mentioned and the ViewportPane implementation to understand the internals. Our library manage internally layers to know how to render them in 3D so our main goal is to get the events of layer added, layer moved, etc. That's why we first thought to do a new Map3DElement and use a Map3DEditor using our ViewerEditor.

As I said, when we have more knowledge of uDIG we can post on HACK wiki to explain our progress.

 
Cheers,
Rafa.




On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Wellmann, Harald
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I assume the other approach Jody is referring to is mine.
>
> I've made some progress, but things are still too experimental to write up a Wiki page, let alone publish sources.
>
> Anyway, my team is trying to integrate Java3D, and we are not planning to consider any other 3D frameworks. osgVP is out of the question for us due to its GPL license. uDig is LGPL, so I guess that any add-on with an incompatible license will never make it into uDig trunk.
>
> The current status of my prototype:
>
> - A ViewportPaneJava3D wraps a Canvas3D (by means of SWT_AWT) and a VirtualUniverse. This Pane is used as a replacement for the default ViewportPaneSWT.
>
> - An interface IMapDisplay3D extends IMapDisplay to provide access to the VirtualUniverse.
>
> - A Java3DFeatureRenderer retrieves the IMapDisplay from the RenderContext, downcasts it to IMapDisplay3D, accesses the VirtualUniverse and creates a new BranchGroup with a Shape3D for each feature from the corresponding map layer.
>
> - A ViewportModelListener receives viewport changes and updates the Java3D ViewingPlatform transform.
>
> It shouldn't be too hard to fill in the missing bits under the assumption that the entire map is small enough to be kept in memory and to be rendered into the scenegraph once when the map is created.
>
> And I'm ignoring styles for the time being.
>
> I'm busy with other things currently, but I hope I'll be able to provide more details after Easter.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Harald
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von:    [hidden email] im Auftrag von Jody Garnett
> Gesendet:       Di 24.03.2009 14:45
> An:     User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS
> Cc:
> Betreff:        Re: [udig-devel] Map3D in UDIG
>
> That is fun news; please see another conversation two weeks ago where
> I covered intergration options with another team doing the same sort
> of idea.
>
> To review:
> - do not target MapImpl that is the data structure
> - there is a single component to look at - MapViewer which sets itself
> up to use different widgets depending on the constants provided during
> contstruction; make 3D a supported constant
>
> It really is very exciting to have two teams looking at scene graph
> based solutions; the other team was looking at Java3D which also scene
> graph based. In my own commercial work I saw a 40% improvement going
> from hand built OpenGL to Java3D back when it was alpha technology.
>
> I am happy to review any design documentation posted to the udig HACK
> wiki space; especially if the work is being done in a community
> module. You should also consider dropping by the uDig IRC channel for
> the friday meeting - I would be pleased to go over some options with
> you. Beyond these public forums I would need to look up my consulting
> rates for you (yes open source is not free in every sense of the
> word).
>
> Can you do me a favour and use nabble to look up the earlier
> conversation on this topic; it would save us both some time.
>
> Welcome and happy hacking,
> Jody
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:11 PM, eline lachat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are planning a development of 3D capabilities on uDIG using
>> OSGVirtualPlanets (osgvp
>> http://www.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-commons/osgvp) into UDIG. osgVP is a
>> 3D framework based on OpenSceneGraph for GIS development in Java.
>>
>> We think follow this way to integrate the 3D viewers into Udig:
>> - Make a Map3D element that is like a MapImpl (the Map3D implementation is
>> almost the same that a Map implementation)
>> - Make an Eclipse Editor Part that is associated to the new element Map3D.
>> An editor already exists in OSGVP, so we want to extend it.
>> - To pass the layer events on the layerManager of the OSGVP to draw the
>> layer.
>>
>> We think that the best way is to reuse the MaplImp element because the map3D
>> is almost the same. We'd like use it in the existing Editor developped in
>> OSGVP.
>> We are developing the Map3DEditor and we would like to know if the plan of
>> work correponds to the best solution.
>>
>> The goal of the integration is to can use every functionnalities of a Map in
>> a Map3D.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Eline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
> *******************************************
> innovative systems GmbH Navigation-Multimedia
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Edwin Summers - Kevin Brown
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg - Registergericht: Hamburg HRB 59980
>
> *******************************************
> Diese E-Mail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtuemlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und loeschen Sie diese Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist nicht gestattet.
> This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the contents in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
> *******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel



--
Rafael Gaitán Linares
Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
Universidad Politécnica de Valencia

_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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Re: Map3D in UDIG

Jody Garnett-2
Okay I am glad our discussion brought you out to talk to us.

Please note that as a university student I can send you the commercial
training materials for uDig (if you get your professor to email me).

It is always annoying when license issues get in the way of
collaboration. Even if you cannot contribute your work due to license
conflicts; you can still contribute your feedback (and nice patches).
Indeed you can share your source code in the community section; and
look into making your work an optional download in the help menu. We
are limiting the core of uDig to LGPL simply because so many of our
supporters depend on the ability to package up custom applications for
their organizations.

You talk about your library managing layers internally; and it should
be doing that. The idea is to generate that internal structure based
on the uDig Map/Layer data model. You will actually find the uDig
rendering code generates a model for rendering (called RenderExecutor
or something) - so the split you are talking about is actually by
design.

My question about tools is more about checking your needs for working
with the viewport model; can you drive your 3D display from it? Can we
enhance the viewport model to meet the needs of a 3D display?

Allowing the display widget to cough up its own pan/zoom tools
represents the other approach; basically saying the viewport model
will never meet the needs of everyone; and that the viewport model
should be "sucked into" the display widget; and the display widget
should advertise to the rest of the udig application the "tools"
needed to effect a visual pan or zoom.

Cheers,
Jody
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jody et all,
>
> Thanks for the quick response, I'm a collegue of Eline working in the
> development of  osgVP framework. We have read previous posts, that's why we
> wanted to mention our development on the list to know if it's possible to
> merge efforts.
>
> As Harald said, we aren't LGPL, we know that is quite difficult to integrate
> our development in the uDIG trunk. Our planning is use uDIG and our
> framework to do researching, because we are working inside university.
>
> We discarded Java3D at the beginning of our work (three years ago), but we
> have done a good progress integrating OpenSceneGraph inside Java and we have
> a complete set of GIS tools to render in 3D (paged terrains, 3D symbology,
> 3D vectorial edition, Stereo viewing etc...), all this tools thankfully to
> the OpenSceneGraph library that is a very modern scenegraph.
>
>> The reason I ask is that I tried to separate out navigation tools into
>> a factory just so we could make a 3D viewer and have the viewer supply
>> the functionality for pan / zoom / sping etc...
>
> We have a ViewerEditor in our framework that integrates without problems
> inside eclipse applications, and it contributes with the specific tools to
> do panning, zoom, and tilt and other helpfull things.
>
> Maybe we need to study more in depth the MapViewer you mentioned and the
> ViewportPane implementation to understand the internals. Our library manage
> internally layers to know how to render them in 3D so our main goal is to
> get the events of layer added, layer moved, etc. That's why we first thought
> to do a new Map3DElement and use a Map3DEditor using our ViewerEditor.
>
> As I said, when we have more knowledge of uDIG we can post on HACK wiki to
> explain our progress.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Rafa.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Wellmann, Harald
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > I assume the other approach Jody is referring to is mine.
>> >
>> > I've made some progress, but things are still too experimental to write
>> > up a Wiki page, let alone publish sources.
>> >
>> > Anyway, my team is trying to integrate Java3D, and we are not planning
>> > to consider any other 3D frameworks. osgVP is out of the question for us due
>> > to its GPL license. uDig is LGPL, so I guess that any add-on with an
>> > incompatible license will never make it into uDig trunk.
>> >
>> > The current status of my prototype:
>> >
>> > - A ViewportPaneJava3D wraps a Canvas3D (by means of SWT_AWT) and a
>> > VirtualUniverse. This Pane is used as a replacement for the default
>> > ViewportPaneSWT.
>> >
>> > - An interface IMapDisplay3D extends IMapDisplay to provide access to
>> > the VirtualUniverse.
>> >
>> > - A Java3DFeatureRenderer retrieves the IMapDisplay from the
>> > RenderContext, downcasts it to IMapDisplay3D, accesses the VirtualUniverse
>> > and creates a new BranchGroup with a Shape3D for each feature from the
>> > corresponding map layer.
>> >
>> > - A ViewportModelListener receives viewport changes and updates the
>> > Java3D ViewingPlatform transform.
>> >
>> > It shouldn't be too hard to fill in the missing bits under the
>> > assumption that the entire map is small enough to be kept in memory and to
>> > be rendered into the scenegraph once when the map is created.
>> >
>> > And I'm ignoring styles for the time being.
>> >
>> > I'm busy with other things currently, but I hope I'll be able to provide
>> > more details after Easter.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Harald
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> > Von:    [hidden email] im Auftrag von Jody
>> > Garnett
>> > Gesendet:       Di 24.03.2009 14:45
>> > An:     User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS
>> > Cc:
>> > Betreff:        Re: [udig-devel] Map3D in UDIG
>> >
>> > That is fun news; please see another conversation two weeks ago where
>> > I covered intergration options with another team doing the same sort
>> > of idea.
>> >
>> > To review:
>> > - do not target MapImpl that is the data structure
>> > - there is a single component to look at - MapViewer which sets itself
>> > up to use different widgets depending on the constants provided during
>> > contstruction; make 3D a supported constant
>> >
>> > It really is very exciting to have two teams looking at scene graph
>> > based solutions; the other team was looking at Java3D which also scene
>> > graph based. In my own commercial work I saw a 40% improvement going
>> > from hand built OpenGL to Java3D back when it was alpha technology.
>> >
>> > I am happy to review any design documentation posted to the udig HACK
>> > wiki space; especially if the work is being done in a community
>> > module. You should also consider dropping by the uDig IRC channel for
>> > the friday meeting - I would be pleased to go over some options with
>> > you. Beyond these public forums I would need to look up my consulting
>> > rates for you (yes open source is not free in every sense of the
>> > word).
>> >
>> > Can you do me a favour and use nabble to look up the earlier
>> > conversation on this topic; it would save us both some time.
>> >
>> > Welcome and happy hacking,
>> > Jody
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:11 PM, eline lachat <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> We are planning a development of 3D capabilities on uDIG using
>> >> OSGVirtualPlanets (osgvp
>> >> http://www.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-commons/osgvp) into UDIG. osgVP
>> >> is a
>> >> 3D framework based on OpenSceneGraph for GIS development in Java.
>> >>
>> >> We think follow this way to integrate the 3D viewers into Udig:
>> >> - Make a Map3D element that is like a MapImpl (the Map3D implementation
>> >> is
>> >> almost the same that a Map implementation)
>> >> - Make an Eclipse Editor Part that is associated to the new element
>> >> Map3D.
>> >> An editor already exists in OSGVP, so we want to extend it.
>> >> - To pass the layer events on the layerManager of the OSGVP to draw the
>> >> layer.
>> >>
>> >> We think that the best way is to reuse the MaplImp element because the
>> >> map3D
>> >> is almost the same. We'd like use it in the existing Editor developped
>> >> in
>> >> OSGVP.
>> >> We are developing the Map3DEditor and we would like to know if the plan
>> >> of
>> >> work correponds to the best solution.
>> >>
>> >> The goal of the integration is to can use every functionnalities of a
>> >> Map in
>> >> a Map3D.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> Eline
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> >> http://udig.refractions.net
>> >> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> > http://udig.refractions.net
>> > http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >
>> > *******************************************
>> > innovative systems GmbH Navigation-Multimedia
>> > Geschaeftsfuehrung: Edwin Summers - Kevin Brown
>> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg - Registergericht: Hamburg HRB 59980
>> >
>> > *******************************************
>> > Diese E-Mail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte
>> > Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail
>> > irrtuemlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und
>> > loeschen Sie diese Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte
>> > Weitergabe dieser Mail ist nicht gestattet.
>> > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If
>> > you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
>> > please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail. Any
>> > unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the contents in this
>> > e-mail is strictly forbidden.
>> > *******************************************
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> > http://udig.refractions.net
>> > http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
>
> --
> Rafael Gaitán Linares
> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
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AW: Map3D in UDIG

Wellmann, Harald-2
Regarding the pan and zoom tools, they work fine for me even with Java3D, but for the moment I'm only doing 2D rendering, so that is no surprise.

In the long run, when we want to render real 3D data, separate tools is not enough, we really need a viewport model that takes care of 3D aspects (so it would be a viewing frustum) really, and we need tools to support at least the 6 dimensions of rigid motions. Plus scaling, perspective projections etc.

Or maybe we no longer need a viewport model at all, if this is just a private contract between the ViewportPane and the Tools? Don't know what side effects that would have.

By the way, I've started writing up some background on my protoype in http://udig.refractions.net/confluence/display/HACK/Java3D+Renderer

This is incomplete, but it's a start...

Regards,
Harald

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag
> von Jody Garnett
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2009 14:01
> An: User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS
> Betreff: Re: [udig-devel] Map3D in UDIG
>
> Okay I am glad our discussion brought you out to talk to us.
>
> Please note that as a university student I can send you the
> commercial training materials for uDig (if you get your
> professor to email me).
>
> It is always annoying when license issues get in the way of
> collaboration. Even if you cannot contribute your work due to
> license conflicts; you can still contribute your feedback
> (and nice patches).
> Indeed you can share your source code in the community
> section; and look into making your work an optional download
> in the help menu. We are limiting the core of uDig to LGPL
> simply because so many of our supporters depend on the
> ability to package up custom applications for their organizations.
>
> You talk about your library managing layers internally; and
> it should be doing that. The idea is to generate that
> internal structure based on the uDig Map/Layer data model.
> You will actually find the uDig rendering code generates a
> model for rendering (called RenderExecutor or something) - so
> the split you are talking about is actually by design.
>
> My question about tools is more about checking your needs for
> working with the viewport model; can you drive your 3D
> display from it? Can we enhance the viewport model to meet
> the needs of a 3D display?
>
> Allowing the display widget to cough up its own pan/zoom
> tools represents the other approach; basically saying the
> viewport model will never meet the needs of everyone; and
> that the viewport model should be "sucked into" the display
> widget; and the display widget should advertise to the rest
> of the udig application the "tools"
> needed to effect a visual pan or zoom.
>
> Cheers,
> Jody
 
*******************************************
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Re: Map3D in UDIG

Jody Garnett-2
Regarding the pan and zoom tools, they work fine for me even with Java3D, but for the moment I'm only doing 2D rendering, so that is no surprise.

In the long run, when we want to render real 3D data, separate tools is not enough, we really need a viewport model that takes care of 3D aspects (so it would be a viewing frustum) really, and we need tools to support at least the 6 dimensions of rigid motions. Plus scaling, perspective projections etc.

As I said I am open to making the viewport model suite your needs; indeed that represents a nice split of functionality. I was worried that some of the 3D visualization technologies would not let us externalize this idea (ie we would punt data into a scene and the widget would aggressively take everything from there). 

Or maybe we no longer need a viewport model at all, if this is just a private contract between the ViewportPane and the Tools? Don't know what side effects that would have.

It is supposed to be a contract between the user and the widget being used to display. The tools represent the actions of the user; and the viewport model is used to transform each click they make into an interaction with some part of the data model (it could be the viewport model; it could be changing the selection on a layer etc...).

When you get to that stage of intergration I expect we will have a couple of excellent design discussions. I recommend we try skype or IRC (or something more efficient then email) when that day comes.


By the way, I've started writing up some background on my protoype in http://udig.refractions.net/confluence/display/HACK/Java3D+Renderer

This is incomplete, but it's a start...

Thanks Harald you are doing an excellent job of communication.
 
Regards,
Harald

Jody

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Re: Map3D in UDIG

Riccardo Rigon
In reply to this post by eline lachat
For Udiggers 

who want to have 2.5D or 3D virtual globes. please get a look to 


Warm regards,

riccardo

On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:11 PM, eline lachat wrote:

Hi all,

We are planning a development of 3D capabilities on uDIG using OSGVirtualPlanets (osgvp http://www.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-commons/osgvp) into UDIG. osgVP is a 3D framework based on OpenSceneGraph for GIS development in Java.

We think follow this way to integrate the 3D viewers into Udig:
- Make a Map3D element that is like a MapImpl (the Map3D implementation is almost the same that a Map implementation)
- Make an Eclipse Editor Part that is associated to the new element Map3D. An editor already exists in OSGVP, so we want to extend it.
- To pass the layer events on the layerManager of the OSGVP to draw the layer.

We think that the best way is to reuse the MaplImp element because the map3D is almost the same. We'd like use it in the existing Editor developped in OSGVP.
We are developing the Map3DEditor and we would like to know if the plan of work correponds to the best solution.

The goal of the integration is to can use every functionnalities of a Map in a Map3D.

Best regards,

Eline





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________________________________________________________________        
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