Marking temporary traffic organisation change

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Marking temporary traffic organisation change

Mateusz Konieczny-3
Sometimes traffic organization changes for some time - road becomes temporarily oneway,
or oneway road becomes accessible in both direction.

Obviously short term traffic organisation changes (for hours/days) are generally not
worth mapping, though one may use oneway:conditional / access:conditional for that.

But sometimes change is applied for months or longer, as it is related to closure of road.

For example road around
are closed for reconstruction, what is covered by highway=construction.

But there are also other changes
become oneway=no.

How one may mark that such change is temporary?

It would be useful for at least two reasons:
- it would easier to catch roads for retagging after road recontruction completes
- it would be possible to skip such roads in some QA checks - for example that road has
cycleway=opposie_lane, oneway:bicycle=no with oneway=no what would usually indicate
some mistake - but here it is a result of temporary change so validators should not complain

Is there some existing tag for that? If not - what would be a good name for that?
temporary_traffic_organisation=yes is awful

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Re: Marking temporary traffic organisation change

marc marc
Le 08.05.19 à 17:00, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit :
> sometimes change is applied for months

> How one may mark that such change is temporary?
>
> It would be useful for at least two reasons:
> - it would easier to catch roads for retagging after road recontruction
> completes

use https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_date
with an estimated completion date of the work.
some qa-tools inform about outdated dates.
however, some mappers confuse this tag with start_date, which would
probably require additional analysis (quickly correct or better alert
before uploading when start_date contains a future date instead of
opening_date)

> - it would be possible to skip such roads in some QA checks -  

I disagree. if change take long enough to be filled in in osm, then it
is probably very useful that routing inconsistencies are corrected.
because it is in the case of tmp change that there is most often a need
for reliable routing instead of using outdated information
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Re: Marking temporary traffic organisation change

Mateusz Konieczny-3



8 May 2019, 19:35 by [hidden email]:
Le 08.05.19 à 17:00, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit :
sometimes change is applied for months
How one may mark that such change is temporary?

It would be useful for at least two reasons:
- it would easier to catch roads for retagging after road recontruction
completes

with an estimated completion date of the work.
opening_date works well for road under construction, it is not fitting for road
that is not closed but some things like oneway status, lanes are modified


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Re: Marking temporary traffic organisation change

marc marc
Le 08.05.19 à 20:17, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit :

>
>
>
> 8 May 2019, 19:35 by [hidden email]:
>
>     Le 08.05.19 à 17:00, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit :
>
>         sometimes change is applied for months
>
>         How one may mark that such change is temporary?
>
>         It would be useful for at least two reasons:
>         - it would easier to catch roads for retagging
>         after road recontruction completes
>
>     use https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_date
>     with an estimated completion date of the work.
>
> opening_date works well for road under construction,  
> it is not fitting for road that is not closed
> but some things like oneway status, lanes are modified

I also use opening_date for road under "major change"
but indeed opening_date is not perfect in this case.
maybe a new tag like recheck_after/changing_date 'll fit the need.
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Re: Marking temporary traffic organisation change

Mark Wagner
In reply to this post by marc marc
On Wed, 8 May 2019 17:35:09 +0000
marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 08.05.19 à 17:00, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit :
> > sometimes change is applied for months  
>
> > How one may mark that such change is temporary?
> >
> > It would be useful for at least two reasons:
> > - it would easier to catch roads for retagging after road
> > recontruction completes  
>
> use https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_date
> with an estimated completion date of the work.
> some qa-tools inform about outdated dates.
> however, some mappers confuse this tag with start_date, which would
> probably require additional analysis (quickly correct or better alert
> before uploading when start_date contains a future date instead of
> opening_date)
>
> > - it would be possible to skip such roads in some QA checks -    
>
> I disagree. if change take long enough to be filled in in osm, then
> it is probably very useful that routing inconsistencies are
> corrected. because it is in the case of tmp change that there is most
> often a need for reliable routing instead of using outdated
> information

A better example of skipping a QA check would be a pair of two-way
roads that meet at a corner.  One of them is made temporarily one-way
for construction, leaving no legal way to drive both directions on the
other road.  Normally, this would be flagged as a network-connectivity
error, but if the one-way-ness of the other road is marked as being
temporary, the connectivity error can be ignored.

--
Mark

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Re: Marking temporary traffic organisation change

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Mateusz Konieczny-3


sent from a phone

> On 8. May 2019, at 17:00, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How one may mark that such change is temporary?


how do you know it? For example the “Palast der Republik” in Berlin was closed for asbestos abatement roughly 20 years ago, but it never reopened. ;-)

Generally, +1 to adding some date in a formalized way, so that a further verification is facilitated, but it shouldn’t be something “autoexpiring”, because you cannot foresee the future (just because something is scheduled doesn’t mean it will actually take place).

Cheers, Martin
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Re: Marking temporary traffic organisation change

Jmapb
In reply to this post by Mateusz Konieczny-3
On 5/8/2019 2:17 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
opening_date works well for road under construction, it is not fitting for road
that is not closed but some things like oneway status, lanes are modified

The wiki for conditional restrictions gives the following examples:

 - oneway:conditional=yes @ Su described as "Street is oneway on Sundays"
 - motor_vehicle:conditional=no @ (2018 May 22-2018 Oct 7) described as "Section of road is closed for motor vehicles for a few months (for construction). Navigation after the end date should work even for maps created in the meantime."

In my own mapping I have a street that's normally twoway but has been oneway due to construction for over a year, with no firm end date. Following the wiki's examples I could tag it as "oneway:conditional=yes @ (2019 Jan 1-2020 Jan 1)" and monitor the situation, updating the date range as necessary and eventually removing the tag. But my understanding of best practices for conditional tagging is to tag the most restrictive value first, and add the less restrictive value to the conditional clause.

For now, because I don't actually expect any data consumers to parse the conditional, I simply have it tagged as oneway=yes with a fixme. I suppose there'd be no harm in adding a "oneway:conditional=no @ (2020 Jan 1-2999 Jan 1)" and updating the start of that date range as new info is available... but it seems a little silly.

Jason


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Re: Marking temporary traffic organisation change

Marc Gemis
In reply to this post by Mateusz Konieczny-3
There is the abandoned proposal for temporary:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/temporary

regards

m.

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 5:02 PM Mateusz Konieczny
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Sometimes traffic organization changes for some time - road becomes temporarily oneway,
> or oneway road becomes accessible in both direction.
>
> Obviously short term traffic organisation changes (for hours/days) are generally not
> worth mapping, though one may use oneway:conditional / access:conditional for that.
>
> But sometimes change is applied for months or longer, as it is related to closure of road.
>
> For example road around
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.04484&mlon=19.94562#map=19/50.04484/19.94562
> are closed for reconstruction, what is covered by highway=construction.
>
> But there are also other changes
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25029841#map=19/50.04537/19.94788
> become oneway=no.
>
> How one may mark that such change is temporary?
>
> It would be useful for at least two reasons:
> - it would easier to catch roads for retagging after road recontruction completes
> - it would be possible to skip such roads in some QA checks - for example that road has
> cycleway=opposie_lane, oneway:bicycle=no with oneway=no what would usually indicate
> some mistake - but here it is a result of temporary change so validators should not complain
>
> Is there some existing tag for that? If not - what would be a good name for that?
> temporary_traffic_organisation=yes is awful
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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