Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

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Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

Joseph Eisenberg
Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>, but
more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>

Currently maxtents=* is used most frequently and it's the shortest
key, but there is no equivalent tag for carvans other than
capacity:caravans=* - and also, the majority of maxtents= tags are
"maxtents=yes" - and I don't understand what this could mean.

So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would be
the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
caravans=yes/no?

These tags could be used with tourism=camp_pitch, tourism=camp_site
and tourism=caravan_site, and perhaps with other accommodation
features which also offer tent or caravan (RV/Motorhome) sites.

-Joseph

(Sorry for all the questions, but I would like to develop a full
proposal for additional property tags to be used with this feature and
with camp_site / caravan_Site)

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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

Tom Pfeifer
"capacity" is the well established for the number of items the facility can hold,
from students in school, parking spaces to hotel rooms.

"maxtents" is hard to understand, ambiguous and likely leading to confusion.
It could refer to the size as well (maxi tents?) which might explain the poorly tagged
"maxtents=yes". Did you check if that came from a weird import?

tom


On 03.07.2019 02:05, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

> Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
> campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>, but
> more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
> capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>
>
> Currently maxtents=* is used most frequently and it's the shortest
> key, but there is no equivalent tag for carvans other than
> capacity:caravans=* - and also, the majority of maxtents= tags are
> "maxtents=yes" - and I don't understand what this could mean.
>
> So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would be
> the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
> caravans=yes/no?

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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

marc marc
all maxtents=yes are in a "small" area in the north of the USA.
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/KrR
I have send a changeset comment to ask the meaning.

despite that, maxtents=<number> are indeed a bad idea.

capacity:tents is a more common schema
but I don't really see any advantage with
tents=yes + capacity:tents=<number>
versus
tents=<numbers>

Regards,
Marc

Le 03.07.19 à 10:18, Tom Pfeifer a écrit :

> "capacity" is the well established for the number of items the facility
> can hold,
> from students in school, parking spaces to hotel rooms.
>
> "maxtents" is hard to understand, ambiguous and likely leading to
> confusion.
> It could refer to the size as well (maxi tents?) which might explain the
> poorly tagged "maxtents=yes". Did you check if that came from a weird
> import?
>
> tom
>
>
> On 03.07.2019 02:05, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>> Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
>> campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>, but
>> more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
>> capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>
>>
>> Currently maxtents=* is used most frequently and it's the shortest
>> key, but there is no equivalent tag for carvans other than
>> capacity:caravans=* - and also, the majority of maxtents= tags are
>> "maxtents=yes" - and I don't understand what this could mean.
>>
>> So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would be
>> the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
>> caravans=yes/no?
>
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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

Joseph Eisenberg
It’s true that tents=yes/no/<number> are all used. I suppose it takes a slightly more complicated SQL query to interpret <positive whole numbers> as equivalent to “yes”, but it would be easier for mappers to use just one key, I think?

Are others ok with tents=<number> and caravans=<number> in addition to a”yes” and “no” values?

Joseph

On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 5:37 AM marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:
all maxtents=yes are in a "small" area in the north of the USA.
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/KrR
I have send a changeset comment to ask the meaning.

despite that, maxtents=<number> are indeed a bad idea.

capacity:tents is a more common schema
but I don't really see any advantage with
tents=yes + capacity:tents=<number>
versus
tents=<numbers>

Regards,
Marc

Le 03.07.19 à 10:18, Tom Pfeifer a écrit :
> "capacity" is the well established for the number of items the facility
> can hold,
> from students in school, parking spaces to hotel rooms.
>
> "maxtents" is hard to understand, ambiguous and likely leading to
> confusion.
> It could refer to the size as well (maxi tents?) which might explain the
> poorly tagged "maxtents=yes". Did you check if that came from a weird
> import?
>
> tom
>
>
> On 03.07.2019 02:05, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>> Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
>> campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>, but
>> more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
>> capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>
>>
>> Currently maxtents=* is used most frequently and it's the shortest
>> key, but there is no equivalent tag for carvans other than
>> capacity:caravans=* - and also, the majority of maxtents= tags are
>> "maxtents=yes" - and I don't understand what this could mean.
>>
>> So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would be
>> the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
>> caravans=yes/no?
>
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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 10:06, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>, but
more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>

So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would be
the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
caravans=yes/no?

I've never seen an individual caravan site / pitch that will handle more than 1 caravan at a time, so I'm not sure if there's any need for that one?

With regard to the number of tents on an individual site, you then get the potential problem of the size of the tent. 

Let's say that your tent site is 5m x 5m - you can get tents that are that size (& bigger!) so only 1 will fit, or, if a group of people are using 1-man pup tents / swags, they could probably fit 10 tents in that same area!

Maybe just leave it as tent & caravan = yes / no, without the numbers / capacity fields? 

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

Warin
On 04/07/19 11:47, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 10:06, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>, but
more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>

So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would be
the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
caravans=yes/no?

I've never seen an individual caravan site / pitch that will handle more than 1 caravan at a time, so I'm not sure if there's any need for that one?

With regard to the number of tents on an individual site, you then get the potential problem of the size of the tent. 

Let's say that your tent site is 5m x 5m - you can get tents that are that size (& bigger!) so only 1 will fit, or, if a group of people are using 1-man pup tents / swags, they could probably fit 10 tents in that same area!

Maybe just leave it as tent & caravan = yes / no, without the numbers / capacity fields? 


You have never been camping in Germany. Some camp sites are regimented, you are allocated a site/pitch on registering, yes for a tent!

Adels Grove in Queensland also dictates a site... and so does Lawn Hill NP site. And there are NP sites in Tassie that do the same, booked sites for tents.

So capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# are valid things for camp sites.

Camp pitches of larger size, with smaller tents ??? I'd leave it to the mapper, if they want they can add the tag. 



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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

Joseph Eisenberg
These are mainly meant to be used with tourism=camp_site and
tourism=caravan_site to show the total capacity of the facility, which
might be important for groups. For tourism=camp_pitch it could be used
for large "pitches" that are intended for a group, such as an extended
family. I've seen these where a half-dozen or dozen tents are allowed.

I don't camp by caravan myself, but I think there are occasionally
sites that can be reserved or booked as one location for a group of
several caravans at a national park, so caravans=4 or
capacity:caravans=3 might occasionally be useful even with
tourism=camp_pitch.

Joseph

On 7/4/19, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 04/07/19 11:47, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 10:06, Joseph Eisenberg
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
>>     campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>, but
>>     more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
>>     capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>
>>
>>     So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would
>> be
>>     the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
>>     caravans=yes/no?
>>
>>
>> I've never seen an individual caravan site / pitch that will handle
>> more than 1 caravan at a time, so I'm not sure if there's any need for
>> that one?
>>
>> With regard to the number of tents on an individual site, you then get
>> the potential problem of the size of the tent.
>>
>> Let's say that your tent site is 5m x 5m - you can get tents that are
>> that size (& bigger!) so only 1 will fit, or, if a group of people are
>> using 1-man pup tents / swags, they could probably fit 10 tents in
>> that same area!
>>
>> Maybe just leave it as tent & caravan = yes / no, without the numbers
>> / capacity fields?
>>
>
> You have never been camping in Germany. Some camp sites are regimented,
> you are allocated a site/pitch on registering, yes for a tent!
>
> Adels Grove in Queensland also dictates a site... and so does Lawn Hill
> NP site. And there are NP sites in Tassie that do the same, booked sites
> for tents.
>
> So capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# are valid things for camp
> sites.
>
> Camp pitches of larger size, with smaller tents ??? I'd leave it to the
> mapper, if they want they can add the tag.
>
>
>

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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

Joseph Eisenberg
OK, so there were 2 people in favor of capacity:tents=<number> (+
tents=yes/no) and 2 in favor of using tents=yes/<number> alone. Any
other thoughts on this?

On 7/4/19, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> These are mainly meant to be used with tourism=camp_site and
> tourism=caravan_site to show the total capacity of the facility, which
> might be important for groups. For tourism=camp_pitch it could be used
> for large "pitches" that are intended for a group, such as an extended
> family. I've seen these where a half-dozen or dozen tents are allowed.
>
> I don't camp by caravan myself, but I think there are occasionally
> sites that can be reserved or booked as one location for a group of
> several caravans at a national park, so caravans=4 or
> capacity:caravans=3 might occasionally be useful even with
> tourism=camp_pitch.
>
> Joseph
>
> On 7/4/19, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 04/07/19 11:47, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 10:06, Joseph Eisenberg
>>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Some users specify the number of tents or caravans allowed at a
>>>     campsite or camp pitch with tents=<number> and caravans=<number>,
>>> but
>>>     more frequently these are specified with capacity:caravans=<number>,
>>>     capacity:tents=<number> or maxtents=<number>
>>>
>>>     So I'm thinking that capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# would
>>> be
>>>     the least ambiguous option, along with tents=yes/no and
>>>     caravans=yes/no?
>>>
>>>
>>> I've never seen an individual caravan site / pitch that will handle
>>> more than 1 caravan at a time, so I'm not sure if there's any need for
>>> that one?
>>>
>>> With regard to the number of tents on an individual site, you then get
>>> the potential problem of the size of the tent.
>>>
>>> Let's say that your tent site is 5m x 5m - you can get tents that are
>>> that size (& bigger!) so only 1 will fit, or, if a group of people are
>>> using 1-man pup tents / swags, they could probably fit 10 tents in
>>> that same area!
>>>
>>> Maybe just leave it as tent & caravan = yes / no, without the numbers
>>> / capacity fields?
>>>
>>
>> You have never been camping in Germany. Some camp sites are regimented,
>> you are allocated a site/pitch on registering, yes for a tent!
>>
>> Adels Grove in Queensland also dictates a site... and so does Lawn Hill
>> NP site. And there are NP sites in Tassie that do the same, booked sites
>> for tents.
>>
>> So capacity:tents=# and capacity:caravans=# are valid things for camp
>> sites.
>>
>> Camp pitches of larger size, with smaller tents ??? I'd leave it to the
>> mapper, if they want they can add the tag.
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: Maxtents=<number> or capacity:tents=<number> for campsites?

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 22. Aug 2019, at 01:37, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> OK, so there were 2 people in favor of capacity:tents=<number>


I would prefer this. Although I would expect you could always add another tent somehow. Or is this about legal regulations (e.g. to protect a vulnerable site, or for security reasons like fire protection, etc.)? In this case a maxtent tag might be more in line with established tagging.

Cheers Martin
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