Meaning of cycleway=no

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Meaning of cycleway=no

Wiktor Niesiobedzki
Hi,

Recently I read in OSM Weekly about new maps by MapCat. Driven by
curiosity I opened this map and when I switched to bike mode in my
city I notice a lot of non-existing cycling infrastructure. After
investigation I discovered that MapCat renders all values of cycleway
as bike lane, what in presence of "no" value is an apparent bug[1].

Looking on taginfo, it seems, that cycleway=no is second most used value in OSM:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/cycleway#values

Though I find it hard to understand, what it means. We could give a
lot of tags with "no" value - building=no on landuse= and highway= and
so on. Even I found combination of highway=cycleway + cycleway=no.

As I asked this question on Polish OSM forum and Mateusz updated wiki
page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway#Other_values
with description of "no" value.

Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value? Should it's use
be discouraged by validators / presets? (at least combinations as
highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)


Cheers,

Wiktor

[1] - https://mapcat.userecho.com/topics/69-do-not-render-cyclewayno-as-bike-lane/



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Meaning of cycleway=no

marc marc
Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?

I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign

> Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets?
> (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)

It seems to be an error.
maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags

Regards,
Marc


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Meaning of cycleway=no

voschix
"cycleway=no" on a highway=XX object means that the road has no cycleway
associated with it, i.e. none of the values
cycleway=yes|both|left|right|lnane|...
To my knowledge the "no" value is not documented. The tag cycleway=no is
often applied by ID users and has nesarly 200000 uses.

On 18 July 2017 at 23:32, marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> > Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
>
> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
>
> > Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets?
> > (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>
> It seems to be an error.
> maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags
>
> Regards,
> Marc
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
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Meaning of cycleway=no

Wiktor Niesiobedzki
In reply to this post by marc marc
2017-07-18 23:32 GMT+02:00 marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com>:
> Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
>> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
>
> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign

Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?

>
>> Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets?
>> (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>
> It seems to be an error.
> maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags

Haven't found recent contribution with cycleway=no. Most of those that
I investigated where ~3-5 years old.

Cheers,

Wiktor



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Meaning of cycleway=no

Wiktor Niesiobedzki
In reply to this post by voschix
2017-07-18 23:45 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com>:
> "cycleway=no" on a highway=XX object means that the road has no cycleway
> associated with it, i.e. none of the values
> cycleway=yes|both|left|right|lnane|...
> To my knowledge the "no" value is not documented. The tag cycleway=no is
> often applied by ID users and has nesarly 200000 uses.
>

I did some digging in some examples I have identified in Poland. Looks
like all of the ones, that I look at where created by Potlatch...

Looking at: https://github.com/openstreetmap/potlatch2/blob/233799c18c25b0f6aeec8c99c603ea9e02afa1d9/resources/map_features.xml

It looks like when describing the road, when user selects "no bike
lanes" this will result in setting cycleway=no. I don't see any way to
set cycleway=no on highway=cycleway though.

Cheers,

Wiktor



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Meaning of cycleway=no

Adam Snape
In reply to this post by Wiktor Niesiobedzki
I agree with Wiktor that we shoud use the access tag bicycle=no when
cycling' is prohibited.
I agree with Volker that the logical meaning of cycleway=no is that there
are no cycle tracks or lanes along a section of highway. This might be
useful information in a similar way to sidewalk=no, not useless like
building=no  landuse=no.

On 19 Jul 2017 8:43 a.m., "Wiktor Niesiobedzki" <osm at vink.pl> wrote:

> 2017-07-18 23:32 GMT+02:00 marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com>:
> > Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> >> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
> >
> > I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
> > cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
>
> Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?
>
> >
> >> Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets?
> >> (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
> >
> > It seems to be an error.
> > maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags
>
> Haven't found recent contribution with cycleway=no. Most of those that
> I investigated where ~3-5 years old.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wiktor
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
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Meaning of cycleway=no

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Wiktor Niesiobedzki


sent from a phone

On 19. Jul 2017, at 09:40, Wiktor Niesiobedzki <osm at vink.pl> wrote:

>> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
>> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
>
> Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?


+1, cycleway is not an access restriction but a tag about cycling infrastructure (I'd not use "no" but would assume it means: neither cycling lane nor track are present).

cheers,
Martin


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Meaning of cycleway=no

Adam Snape
In reply to this post by Wiktor Niesiobedzki
highway=cycleway + cycleway=no can only logically be interpreted as a cycle
way where there is no separation of cycle traffic from other users of the
cycleway. The segregated=no tag would be more appropriate for that scenario

Regards,

Adam

On 18 Jul 2017 9:57 p.m., "Wiktor Niesiobedzki" <osm at vink.pl> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Recently I read in OSM Weekly about new maps by MapCat. Driven by
> curiosity I opened this map and when I switched to bike mode in my
> city I notice a lot of non-existing cycling infrastructure. After
> investigation I discovered that MapCat renders all values of cycleway
> as bike lane, what in presence of "no" value is an apparent bug[1].
>
> Looking on taginfo, it seems, that cycleway=no is second most used value
> in OSM:
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/cycleway#values
>
> Though I find it hard to understand, what it means. We could give a
> lot of tags with "no" value - building=no on landuse= and highway= and
> so on. Even I found combination of highway=cycleway + cycleway=no.
>
> As I asked this question on Polish OSM forum and Mateusz updated wiki
> page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway#Other_values
> with description of "no" value.
>
> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value? Should it's use
> be discouraged by validators / presets? (at least combinations as
> highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wiktor
>
> [1] - https://mapcat.userecho.com/topics/69-do-not-render-
> cyclewayno-as-bike-lane/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
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Meaning of cycleway=no

marc marc
In reply to this post by Wiktor Niesiobedzki
Le 19. 07. 17 à 09:40, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> 2017-07-18 23:32 GMT+02:00 marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com>:
>> Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
>>> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
>>
>> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
>> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
>
> Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?
forget my previous reply. I badly read your question

Regard,
Marc


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Meaning of cycleway=no

Wiktor Niesiobedzki
In reply to this post by Adam Snape
2017-07-19 10:37 GMT+02:00 Adam Snape <adam.c.snape at gmail.com>:
> I agree with Wiktor that we shoud use the access tag bicycle=no when
> cycling' is prohibited.
> I agree with Volker that the logical meaning of cycleway=no is that there
> are no cycle tracks or lanes along a section of highway. This might be
> useful information in a similar way to sidewalk=no, not useless like
> building=no  landuse=no.
>

How does tagging cycleway=no should affect routing or rendering? My
guess it's indistinguishable from having no cycleway tag at all.If
this is used only as a communication between mappers, why then not use
note= tag?

Cheers,

Wiktor



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Meaning of cycleway=no

Paul Johnson-3
In reply to this post by Wiktor Niesiobedzki
On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Wiktor Niesiobedzki <osm at vink.pl> wrote:
>
> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value? Should it's use
> be discouraged by validators / presets? (at least combinations as
> highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>

highway=cycleway + cycleway=no is definitely a nonstarter.

cycleway=no means that there is no bicycle facility.  highway=cycleway
means that it's built only for, or primarily for, cycling.  In the US, this
would effectively be the same as a multiuse path, but with marked lanes
and/or signage, and may include a provision for pedestrians such as
sidewalks, like this one in Tulsa
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bu9dTi0GRknlxprT2> (location
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=36.07594&mlon=-95.98352#map=18/36.07594/-95.98352&layers=N>).
A common arrangement would be to be open to pedestrian traffic, but provide
no facility for walking, such as this one in Jenks, Oklahoma
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/XvnHld1M3Mx4KZNd2> (location
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=36.01746&mlon=-95.96192#map=19/36.01746/-95.96192&layers=N>).
More elaborate arrangements would be like this one in Helmrich Park
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/VCK5RlZ2DZHK2ElB3> (location
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=36.05797&mlon=-95.97669#map=18/36.05797/-95.97669&layers=N>),
where the sidewalk is fully separated (visible on left) from the sidewalk
(foreground).  The former only allows pedestrians, the latter allows
cyclists and skaters.
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