Multiple values in isced:level

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Multiple values in isced:level

Lanxana.
Hi!
I would like to know how to indicate that a school offers several educational levels. I've been seeing the isced: level tag, which is that I think to use, but I have a question about how to separate multiple values.

I have looked in taginfo and approximately in 15000 cases the semicolon (;) is used, in 3000 the comma (,) and in 1000 cases the hyphen (-). It would seem therefore that the general criteria is to use the semicolon.

It really is that? Is there no risk of causing errors when converting data to another format?

Another option that I had valued, and of which I have not found use, is to add the level in the label itself, thus being:

isced: level: 1 = yes + isced: level: 2 = yes, for a center that offers levels 1 and 2.

What's your opinion?

Thanks!

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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Paul Allen
On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 at 10:29, Lanxana . <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have looked in taginfo and approximately in 15000 cases the semicolon (;) is used, in 3000 the comma (,) and in 1000 cases the hyphen (-). It would seem therefore that the general criteria is to use the semicolon.


One thing that page doesn't explicitly mention is that the semi-colon is a problem in URLs because
it can be a valid, meaningful character in some URLs.

It really is that? Is there no risk of causing errors when converting data to another format?

See link above.

Another option that I had valued, and of which I have not found use, is to add the level in the label itself, thus being:

isced: level: 1 = yes + isced: level: 2 = yes, for a center that offers levels 1 and 2.

See link above.

What's your opinion?

Ask any two people on this list their opinion on any matter and you will get THREE opinions.
At least.

--
Paul


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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Andrew Harvey-3
In reply to this post by Lanxana.
It could be cultural but I've always understood that the hyphen (-), ie. 1-3 would mean it covers 1, 2 and 3, while if you say 1;3 or 1,3 then it would cover 1 and 3 only, excluding two 2.

So I think it depends, if you want a range use "-" if you don't want a range use a ";" or ",".

I've tagged with isced:level many times and have commonly used a "-" to indicate a range, eg. 1-2.

On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 at 19:29, Lanxana . <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi!
I would like to know how to indicate that a school offers several educational levels. I've been seeing the isced: level tag, which is that I think to use, but I have a question about how to separate multiple values.

I have looked in taginfo and approximately in 15000 cases the semicolon (;) is used, in 3000 the comma (,) and in 1000 cases the hyphen (-). It would seem therefore that the general criteria is to use the semicolon.

It really is that? Is there no risk of causing errors when converting data to another format?

Another option that I had valued, and of which I have not found use, is to add the level in the label itself, thus being:

isced: level: 1 = yes + isced: level: 2 = yes, for a center that offers levels 1 and 2.

What's your opinion?

Thanks!
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Jo-2
Use semicolons, for a range use 4;5;6. Be explicit and keep with the standard value separator.

On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 2:17 PM Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
It could be cultural but I've always understood that the hyphen (-), ie. 1-3 would mean it covers 1, 2 and 3, while if you say 1;3 or 1,3 then it would cover 1 and 3 only, excluding two 2.

So I think it depends, if you want a range use "-" if you don't want a range use a ";" or ",".

I've tagged with isced:level many times and have commonly used a "-" to indicate a range, eg. 1-2.

On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 at 19:29, Lanxana . <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi!
I would like to know how to indicate that a school offers several educational levels. I've been seeing the isced: level tag, which is that I think to use, but I have a question about how to separate multiple values.

I have looked in taginfo and approximately in 15000 cases the semicolon (;) is used, in 3000 the comma (,) and in 1000 cases the hyphen (-). It would seem therefore that the general criteria is to use the semicolon.

It really is that? Is there no risk of causing errors when converting data to another format?

Another option that I had valued, and of which I have not found use, is to add the level in the label itself, thus being:

isced: level: 1 = yes + isced: level: 2 = yes, for a center that offers levels 1 and 2.

What's your opinion?

Thanks!
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Andrew Harvey-3


sent from a phone

> On 4. Aug 2019, at 14:14, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It could be cultural but I've always understood that the hyphen (-), ie. 1-3 would mean it covers 1, 2 and 3, while if you say 1;3 or 1,3 then it would cover 1 and 3 only, excluding two 2.


This is also my general understanding although there are situations where the meaning can differ, e.g. housenumber = 1-3 can mean either 1;2;3 or 1;3 (depending on the local numbering scheme for this road).

Cheers Martin
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Paul Allen
On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 at 15:43, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

This is also my general understanding although there are situations where the meaning can differ, e.g. housenumber = 1-3 can mean either 1;2;3 or 1;3 (depending on the local numbering scheme for this road).

There are several different views on this.  Mine would be 1-3 means 1;2;3 and 1,3 means 1;3.  Oh,
and 1,2,3 is an alternative to 1-3 but more cumbersome.  However, this is OSM where a foolish
consistency is never the hobgoblin of our little minds.

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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 4. Aug 2019, at 16:58, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There are several different views on this.  Mine would be 1-3 means 1;2;3 and 1,3 means 1;3.  Oh,
> and 1,2,3 is an alternative to 1-3 but more cumbersome.  However, this is OSM where a foolish
> consistency is never the hobgoblin of our little minds.


if these were housenumbers, what about 1/3 ?

There might also be 1/1, 1/2 and 1/4, etc., or it could mean 1;3 (1 and 3). The latter is quite common in Italy, where every door or gate gets its number, but I have also seen the former, where a housenumber has been split into several housenumbers.

Cheers Martin
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

dieterdreist
yes, I guess the usual case of splits in systems with consecutive numbers running down the road is made with letters, because 1B is clearer than 1/2, but in reality you can find both.

Cheers Martin
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by dieterdreist

On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 07:14, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

if these were housenumbers, what about 1/3 ? 
 
In Australia, at least, that would mean Unit (Room / Suite / Office etc) 1 (House / Street) Number 3; 3/4 would be Unit 3 Number 4 etc 

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

ET Commands
In reply to this post by Lanxana.

> Ask any two people on this list their opinion on any matter and you will
> get THREE opinions.
> At least.
>
> --
> Paul


+1000


Mark



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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Andrew Harvey-3
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 08:36, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
In Australia, at least, that would mean Unit (Room / Suite / Office etc) 1 (House / Street) Number 3; 3/4 would be Unit 3 Number 4 etc 

Which would be more explicit if mapped as addr:unit=3 + addr:housenumber=4. Then downsteam consumers can decide to render as either 3/4 or Unit 3, 4...

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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Warin
In reply to this post by ET Commands
On 05/08/19 11:46, ET Commands wrote:

>
>> Ask any two people on this list their opinion on any matter and you will
>> get THREE opinions.
>> At least.
>>
>> --
>> Paul
>
>
> +1000

And if you read the wiki you can add another 3 opinions to that.

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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

SimonPoole
In reply to this post by Paul Allen


Am 04.08.2019 um 13:50 schrieb Paul Allen:
On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 at 10:29, Lanxana . <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have looked in taginfo and approximately in 15000 cases the semicolon (;) is used, in 3000 the comma (,) and in 1000 cases the hyphen (-). It would seem therefore that the general criteria is to use the semicolon.

The page does not represent community consensus, it is an intermediate state of an old edit war.

That it doesn't make sense should be clear from a) the fact that there are a lot of attribute tags that use semi-colons separated values without any issues, b) that in the mean time we have a lot of tags that use far more complicated structured values which work just fine and nobody writes pamphlets with lots of bold and capital letters claiming that they can't possibly work.

If there should have been a conclusion from the discussion, it should have been that use of lists in a specific tag should be documented, including what the semantics are.

Simon


One thing that page doesn't explicitly mention is that the semi-colon is a problem in URLs because
it can be a valid, meaningful character in some URLs.

It really is that? Is there no risk of causing errors when converting data to another format?

See link above.

Another option that I had valued, and of which I have not found use, is to add the level in the label itself, thus being:

isced: level: 1 = yes + isced: level: 2 = yes, for a center that offers levels 1 and 2.

See link above.

What's your opinion?

Ask any two people on this list their opinion on any matter and you will get THREE opinions.
At least.

--
Paul


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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Warin
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 04:09, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

And if you read the wiki you can add another 3 opinions to that.

I just edited the wiki.  Make that four.

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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Lanxana.
In reply to this post by Lanxana.
Hi!

so, after reading the different opinions, I understand that I can use the semicolon (;) or boolean values (yes/no), and both systems would be correct, is it? And, in any case, it should be documented in the wiki.

And I understand too, that it was a war of editions about the use of semicolon like a value separator, so my question is now that if the current version of the page it's ok or not, because I'd like complete its translation into Spanish.

Thanks!

Libre de virus. www.avast.com

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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Andrew Harvey-3
I'll still be using a range with a -. so 0-2 to mean from 0 to 2 inclusive. I've used it all over my state for schools together with the grades key. To me it's a lot clearer and simpler than the semicolon or multiple yes/no values.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 16:53, Lanxana . <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi!

so, after reading the different opinions, I understand that I can use the semicolon (;) or boolean values (yes/no), and both systems would be correct, is it? And, in any case, it should be documented in the wiki.

And I understand too, that it was a war of editions about the use of semicolon like a value separator, so my question is now that if the current version of the page it's ok or not, because I'd like complete its translation into Spanish.

Thanks!

Libre de virus. www.avast.com
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Jo-2
Wonderful, thank you for your contribution to standardising, by doing your own thing anyway. Really great.

Jo



On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 3:46 PM Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'll still be using a range with a -. so 0-2 to mean from 0 to 2 inclusive. I've used it all over my state for schools together with the grades key. To me it's a lot clearer and simpler than the semicolon or multiple yes/no values.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 16:53, Lanxana . <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi!

so, after reading the different opinions, I understand that I can use the semicolon (;) or boolean values (yes/no), and both systems would be correct, is it? And, in any case, it should be documented in the wiki.

And I understand too, that it was a war of editions about the use of semicolon like a value separator, so my question is now that if the current version of the page it's ok or not, because I'd like complete its translation into Spanish.

Thanks!

Libre de virus. www.avast.com
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Andrew Harvey-3
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/grades#values overwhelmingly uses the dash to show a range, and to a lesser degree the comma to list multiple values. In fact this is what is suggested at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:grades. To use a semicolon in this context or something like grades:1=yes, grades:2=yes etc. goes against that common practice.

End of the day, it's easy for a computer to read "0-2" and "0 to 2" and "0,1,2" and "0;1;2" as all the same, so really mappers should be able to use what makes the most sense for them or what's less error prone and simpler, as they all should be easily interpreted by the downstream data consumer.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 at 04:53, Jo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wonderful, thank you for your contribution to standardising, by doing your own thing anyway. Really great.

Jo



On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 3:46 PM Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'll still be using a range with a -. so 0-2 to mean from 0 to 2 inclusive. I've used it all over my state for schools together with the grades key. To me it's a lot clearer and simpler than the semicolon or multiple yes/no values.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 16:53, Lanxana . <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi!

so, after reading the different opinions, I understand that I can use the semicolon (;) or boolean values (yes/no), and both systems would be correct, is it? And, in any case, it should be documented in the wiki.

And I understand too, that it was a war of editions about the use of semicolon like a value separator, so my question is now that if the current version of the page it's ok or not, because I'd like complete its translation into Spanish.

Thanks!

Libre de virus. www.avast.com
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 20. Aug 2019, at 00:06, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> End of the day, it's easy for a computer to read "0-2" and "0 to 2" and "0,1,2" and "0;1;2" as all the same,


they are not the same. 0-2 could also be the same as 0;1A;1B;2

Cheers Martin
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Re: Multiple values in isced:level

Andrew Davidson-3
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:22 AM Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:
they are not the same. 0-2 could also be the same as 0;1A;1B;2


Is there a ISCED level 1A?

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