Naming Ramps in Australia

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Naming Ramps in Australia

Australia mailing list

Hi all,
I have noticed that the majority of ramps in Australia tend to have descriptive names and that naming format/system is not unique. Also, it is 50-50 between named and unnamed ramps.  

I have researched ramps across all Australia, looked at Mapillary, OSC, government data, OSM history. On street level imagery I could not find any named ramp. In some cases there was an exit number, and it was tagged as junction:ref because it is not a name of the exit, but all I could find were just destination signs.  However, on OSM, ramps had names which in some cases contained information for destinations (John Willcock Link (Eastbound) to Brand Highway) or their function (Pacific Highway On/Offramp). Government data was descriptive in some cases, there was no name in others so no consistency there also.

I think that ramps do not have names and therefore should not contain a name key in OSM (only if there is a specific name for it, then it should have a name key). Exit numbers should be added as junction:ref and signposts data should be added either as destination relation or destination key on the way so routing algorithms could pick that info and give instructions like: "Take the exit toward X,Y,Z". If there is a name, instructions will be like: "Take left to X,Y,Z onramp/offramp”.

I am raising this question in hope to get some kind of consensus how to treat these cases across Australia, so all the ramps have the same format (conclusion could be added to Australian Tagging Guidelines on wiki page for all editors to have as instruction).

What is your opinion on this?


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Re: Naming Ramps in Australia

Ian Bennett
As a user, I would prefer to hear what I'm looking at. In other words, the sat nav is saying what
the signage is showing.

Ian

On 17/11/20 12:00 am, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have noticed that the majority of ramps in Australia tend to have descriptive names and that
> naming format/system is not unique. Also, it is 50-50 between named and unnamed ramps.
>
> I have researched ramps across all Australia, looked at Mapillary, OSC, government data, OSM
> history. On street level imagery I could not find any named ramp. In some cases there was an exit
> number, and it was tagged as junction:ref because it is not a name of the exit, but all I could find
> were just destination signs.  However, on OSM, ramps had names which in some cases contained
> information for destinations (John Willcock Link (Eastbound) to Brand Highway) or their function
> (Pacific Highway On/Offramp). Government data was descriptive in some cases, there was no name in
> others so no consistency there also.
>
> I think that ramps do not have names and therefore should not contain a name key in OSM (only if
> there is a specific name for it, then it should have a name key). Exit numbers should be added as
> junction:ref and signposts data should be added either as destination relation or destination key on
> the way so routing algorithms could pick that info and give instructions like: "Take the exit toward
> X,Y,Z". If there is a name, instructions will be like: "Take left to X,Y,Z onramp/offramp”.
>
> I am raising this question in hope to get some kind of consensus how to treat these cases across
> Australia, so all the ramps have the same format (conclusion could be added to Australian Tagging
> Guidelines on wiki page for all editors to have as instruction).
>
> What is your opinion on this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

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Re: Naming Ramps in Australia

Andrew Harvey-3
In reply to this post by Australia mailing list


On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 at 00:04, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,
I have noticed that the majority of ramps in Australia tend to have descriptive names and that naming format/system is not unique. Also, it is 50-50 between named and unnamed ramps.  

I have researched ramps across all Australia, looked at Mapillary, OSC, government data, OSM history. On street level imagery I could not find any named ramp. In some cases there was an exit number, and it was tagged as junction:ref because it is not a name of the exit, but all I could find were just destination signs.  However, on OSM, ramps had names which in some cases contained information for destinations (John Willcock Link (Eastbound) to Brand Highway) or their function (Pacific Highway On/Offramp). Government data was descriptive in some cases, there was no name in others so no consistency there also.

I think that ramps do not have names and therefore should not contain a name key in OSM (only if there is a specific name for it, then it should have a name key). Exit numbers should be added as junction:ref and signposts data should be added either as destination relation or destination key on the way so routing algorithms could pick that info and give instructions like: "Take the exit toward X,Y,Z". If there is a name, instructions will be like: "Take left to X,Y,Z onramp/offramp”.

I am raising this question in hope to get some kind of consensus how to treat these cases across Australia, so all the ramps have the same format (conclusion could be added to Australian Tagging Guidelines on wiki page for all editors to have as instruction).

What is your opinion on this?


Great question, I agree with you that most offramps don't have names and shouldn't have a name tag in OSM. Something like "Princes Highway Offramp" unless signposted as that shouldn't be used in my opinion. Instead we should map the destination sign relation (so routers can give correct instructions like "Take exit N towards X" which match the signage) and omit the name tag.

Not every road way needs a name.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 at 07:28, Ian Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
As a user, I would prefer to hear what I'm looking at. In other words, the sat nav is saying what
the signage is showing.

In this case it's best we omit the name tag in OSM where we've mapped a descriptive non-signed name so that routers don't waste time telling you the descriptive name like "Princes Highway Offramp" and instead can focus on what is usually signed, the destination and optionally exit number. 
 

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Re: Naming Ramps in Australia

cleary
I agree with Andrew Harvey's comments.  Thanks to Aleksandar for raising this issue which has also vexed me.



On Tue, 17 Nov 2020, at 7:52 AM, Andrew Harvey wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 at 00:04, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via
> Talk-au <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I have noticed that the majority of ramps in Australia tend to have descriptive names and that naming format/system is not unique. Also, it is 50-50 between named and unnamed ramps.  
> >
> > I have researched ramps across all Australia, looked at Mapillary, OSC, government data, OSM history. On street level imagery I could not find any named ramp. In some cases there was an exit number, and it was tagged as junction:ref because it is not a name of the exit, but all I could find were just destination signs.  However, on OSM, ramps had names which in some cases contained information for destinations (John Willcock Link (Eastbound) to Brand Highway) or their function (Pacific Highway On/Offramp). Government data was descriptive in some cases, there was no name in others so no consistency there also.
> >
> > I think that ramps do not have names and therefore should not contain a name key in OSM (only if there is a specific name for it, then it should have a name key). Exit numbers should be added as junction:ref and signposts data should be added either as destination relation or destination key on the way so routing algorithms could pick that info and give instructions like: "Take the exit toward X,Y,Z". If there is a name, instructions will be like: "Take left to X,Y,Z onramp/offramp”.
> >
> > I am raising this question in hope to get some kind of consensus how to treat these cases across Australia, so all the ramps have the same format (conclusion could be added to Australian Tagging Guidelines on wiki page for all editors to have as instruction).
> >
> > What is your opinion on this?
>
>
> Great question, I agree with you that most offramps don't have names
> and shouldn't have a name tag in OSM. Something like "Princes Highway
> Offramp" unless signposted as that shouldn't be used in my opinion.
> Instead we should map the destination sign relation (so routers can
> give correct instructions like "Take exit N towards X" which match the
> signage) and omit the name tag.
>
> Not every road way needs a name.
>
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 at 07:28, Ian Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > As a user, I would prefer to hear what I'm looking at. In other words, the sat nav is saying what
> > the signage is showing.
>
> In this case it's best we omit the name tag in OSM where we've mapped a
> descriptive non-signed name so that routers don't waste time telling
> you the descriptive name like "Princes Highway Offramp" and instead can
> focus on what is usually signed, the destination and optionally exit
> number.
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

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Re: Naming Ramps in Australia

Andrew Davidson-3
On 17/11/20 8:24 am, cleary wrote:
> I agree with Andrew Harvey's comments.  Thanks to Aleksandar for raising this issue which has also vexed me.

I've also been troubled for many years by the practice of giving every
ramp a name. But I'd been letting it go because I thought everyone else
was OK with that.

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Re: Naming Ramps in Australia

Warin
On 19/11/20 7:47 pm, Andrew Davidson wrote:
> On 17/11/20 8:24 am, cleary wrote:
>> I agree with Andrew Harvey's comments. Thanks to Aleksandar for
>> raising this issue which has also vexed me.
>
> I've also been troubled for many years by the practice of giving every
> ramp a name. But I'd been letting it go because I thought everyone
> else was OK with that.


There is a tendency for mappers to add description to the name tag...
for example building=house with name=house... tired of it. In one case I
contacted the mapper concerned leisure=pitch. sport=cricket and
name=Cricket Pitch ... they claimed that was its 'name'. Did not purse
it further. I am now inclined to just change them to description=*
rather than bother (of course where this is obvious)' if repetitive then
I'll try contacting the mapper.


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