National Cycle Networks..

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National Cycle Networks..

Ian Sergeant-3
Hi,

I've noticed over the past few years a National Cycle Network "creep"
in Australia.

Personally, I'm not sure that Australia has anything that would really
count as a national cycleway network.  This concept was developed in
the UK and Europe where they really do have developed national routes.

I am prepared to accept that perhaps the (now scrapped) coastal
cycleway may approach a national route - and I know that has been
mapped in places.  But if we choose to map those sections we have to
appreciate that the route has many gaps.

This was particularly concerning when I saw that Bulli Pass was mapped
as part of a National Cycleway Network.  This is a section of steep
road, with no shoulder, used by heavy vehicles.  There is no bicycle
facility, no signage, no nothing.

So, sure, bicycles are free to ride wherever they want. And I'm not
saying this can't be cycled safely.   But I think marking sections
like this is arbitrary at best, and at worst dangerous.

I'd like to hear any viewpoints that agree or differ?  Otherwise, I
might start cutting out these sections of these routes that I know
aren't signed and have no amenity.  Sure - we may have a disconnected
route, but that's the ground-truth as I see it.

I'd like to talk about the possibility of removing some of the high
speed road with no shoulder sections too (at least from the national
cycle routes).  If we look at how Google Maps does this, it's much
more reliable than the proliferation of dodgy routes that we currently
have in OSM.  The expectation of a national cycle route should be our
best facilities, not a windy 100km road with no shoulder.

Ian.

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Re: National Cycle Networks..

Warin
On 03/11/18 11:59, Ian Sergeant wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've noticed over the past few years a National Cycle Network "creep"
> in Australia.
>
> Personally, I'm not sure that Australia has anything that would really
> count as a national cycleway network.  This concept was developed in
> the UK and Europe where they really do have developed national routes.
>
> I am prepared to accept that perhaps the (now scrapped) coastal
> cycleway may approach a national route - and I know that has been
> mapped in places.  But if we choose to map those sections we have to
> appreciate that the route has many gaps.
>
> This was particularly concerning when I saw that Bulli Pass was mapped
> as part of a National Cycleway Network.  This is a section of steep
> road, with no shoulder, used by heavy vehicles.  There is no bicycle
> facility, no signage, no nothing.
>
> So, sure, bicycles are free to ride wherever they want. And I'm not
> saying this can't be cycled safely.   But I think marking sections
> like this is arbitrary at best, and at worst dangerous.
>
> I'd like to hear any viewpoints that agree or differ?  Otherwise, I
> might start cutting out these sections of these routes that I know
> aren't signed and have no amenity.  Sure - we may have a disconnected
> route, but that's the ground-truth as I see it.
>
> I'd like to talk about the possibility of removing some of the high
> speed road with no shoulder sections too (at least from the national
> cycle routes).  If we look at how Google Maps does this, it's much
> more reliable than the proliferation of dodgy routes that we currently
> have in OSM.  The expectation of a national cycle route should be our
> best facilities, not a windy 100km road with no shoulder.
>
Yes to removing the bits that are not safe .. as in 'we' would not recommend them.
Particularly if unsigned as well. But I am not a firm belier in 'signage' but preference 'usage'.


The BNT would be a true 'national route' but for mtb .. not a road bike. Possibly a touring bike .. but using the cycle alternatives.
This route too has gaps. Reminds me that I have some checking to do on it...

There is a collection of 'routes' around Bendigo that have been mapped as ways rather than use routes ..
and the ways have been offset in some places from the roads and tracks they actually use.
They do need fixing, no response from  the original mapper as yet.

Consider many of our 'regional' routes are of a length of the Europeans 'national routes' there 'importance' is somewhat degraded.


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Re: National Cycle Networks..

Ben Kelley-4
In reply to this post by Ian Sergeant-3
Hi.

With regard to proliferation of dodgy routes, I am of the opinion that a bike route should be verifiable.

I agree that the NCN doesn't really exist. Generally I don't remove the tags, but I think I agree with you that in cases like this it could be dangerous if you believed OSM.

 - Ben Kelley.



On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 12:00, Ian Sergeant <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've noticed over the past few years a National Cycle Network "creep"
in Australia.
 
--

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Re: National Cycle Networks..

forster
In reply to this post by Ian Sergeant-3
Hi

Having recently ridden the Eurovelo7 in Italy  
http://www.eurovelo.com/en/eurovelos/eurovelo-7 I observed that  
National Cycle Networks are not necessarily safe or signed.

But they are viable cycle routes for long distance travel, eg like  
Melbourne Sydney.

On verifiability: Maybe we could get cycle umbrella groups like  
https://www.bikesa.asn.au/about or  
https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/about-us/ to decide if there are any  
NCNs in Australia.

Tony



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