Navigation with Online Maps

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Navigation with Online Maps

Esben Stien
Does any of the navigation apps for OSM use online maps or have an
option to do so, instead of using downloaded stored static maps?

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Richard Welty-2
On 4/30/14 5:14 PM, Esben Stien wrote:
> Does any of the navigation apps for OSM use online maps or have an
> option to do so, instead of using downloaded stored static maps?
>
OsmAnd can use either downloaded or online maps. the MapQuest
app for Android can use online OSM based maps. not sure about
others.

richard

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Esben Stien
Richard Welty <[hidden email]> writes:

> OsmAnd can use either downloaded or online maps. the MapQuest
> app for Android can use online OSM based maps. not sure about
> others.

Yeah, I find "Online Maps" in plugins, but it doesn't really seem to
work. It's supposed to update directly from openstreetmap.org?

What's the update frequency of this setting or is there some kind of
push technology?

I just created a bus stop on openstreetmap.org. How long is it supposed
to take before I can see this bus stop in OsmAnd? I find another bus
stop I made a week or two ago in there.

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Esben Stien
In reply to this post by Richard Welty-2
Richard Welty <[hidden email]> writes:

> OsmAnd can use either downloaded or online maps.

This seems to be incorrect, according to this:

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/14755/frequency-of-releases-for-map-downloads-to-my-android-apps-navfree-and-osmand

It says that OsmAnd does not have direct access to OSM.

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Esben Stien
Esben Stien <[hidden email]> writes:

> It says that OsmAnd does not have direct access to OSM.

The reason I'm looking for this is because of ordinary traffic checks,
f.ex passport check points, vehicle weight checks for heavy goods
traffic, alcohol check point and mobile police speed check points.

This is data that appears and soon disappears, so it's useless if the
software updates two times a month.

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Stewart C. Russell
On 14-05-01 06:48 AM, Esben Stien wrote:
>
> This is data that appears and soon disappears, so it's useless if the
> software updates two times a month.

If what you want to map is so transient, I don't think OpenStreetMap is
the right place to put it. Data isn't pushed from the main server to
mirrors (that would require a budget), so if a feature is very
short-lived, mirrors might never know it had been there.

 Stewart


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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Esben Stien
"Stewart C. Russell" <[hidden email]> writes:

> If what you want to map is so transient, I don't think OpenStreetMap is
> the right place to put it. Data isn't pushed from the main server to
> mirrors (that would require a budget), so if a feature is very
> short-lived, mirrors might never know it had been there.

What about traffic information?, if f.ex a road is closed due to a car
crash?

We don't have a layer of information where such data can be transferred
more quickly?

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Richard Welty-2
On 5/1/14 8:50 AM, Esben Stien wrote:

> "Stewart C. Russell" <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> If what you want to map is so transient, I don't think OpenStreetMap is
>> the right place to put it. Data isn't pushed from the main server to
>> mirrors (that would require a budget), so if a feature is very
>> short-lived, mirrors might never know it had been there.
> What about traffic information?, if f.ex a road is closed due to a car
> crash?
>
> We don't have a layer of information where such data can be transferred
> more quickly?
>
for this kind of data, i recommend setting up a separate database with some
sort of overlay system. most existing data consumers are not going to update
frequently enough for such transient data to be of any real value.

richard

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Esben Stien
On Thu, 2014-05-01 at 14:50 +0200, Esben Stien wrote:

> "Stewart C. Russell" <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > If what you want to map is so transient, I don't think OpenStreetMap is
> > the right place to put it. Data isn't pushed from the main server to
> > mirrors (that would require a budget), so if a feature is very
> > short-lived, mirrors might never know it had been there.
>
> What about traffic information?, if f.ex a road is closed due to a car
> crash?
>
> We don't have a layer of information where such data can be transferred
> more quickly?
>
The OSM database is not the place for thing that a so transient.

Apps could be developed to use TMC, or other traffic databases in real
time.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TMC

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Esben Stien
Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> writes:

> Apps could be developed to use TMC, or other traffic databases in real
> time.

Do we have any traffic databases that is under community control?

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Florian Lohoff-2

Hi,

On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 08:21:01PM +0200, Esben Stien wrote:
> Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > Apps could be developed to use TMC, or other traffic databases in real
> > time.
>
> Do we have any traffic databases that is under community control?

For Germany the Free TMC Location Code List is managed by state authorities (BAST).
Only points can be added and not deleted. TMC has a limit of IIRC 64K defined
points between which traffic problems can be signaled.

So there is map data - long term - long valid. Then you have the TMC LCL
list which basically is aswell long term and long valid.

Then you get VERY LITTLE data transmitted via FM radio (RDS, TMC)
which then signals the mobile client some traffic jams etc.

When talking about "traffic database" you may refer to something like
google traffic which is basically a real time traffic speed database.
Its vast amount of data and you'll need a lot of mobile clients.
I dont think the community is capable of a) paying for the central
services and b) deploy the necessary amount of mobile clients giving
feedback.

Flo
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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Esben Stien
On Thu, 2014-05-01 at 20:21 +0200, Esben Stien wrote:
> Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > Apps could be developed to use TMC, or other traffic databases in real
> > time.
>
> Do we have any traffic databases that is under community control?
>
TMC in many countries is a free service transmitted alongside broadcast
radio, the wiki page I believe give details of the open standards which
we could use.

Gathering traffic details is a huge real-time logistical, and expensive,
operation. It is not something that the community could hope to match.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Florian Lohoff-2
On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 07:37:31PM +0100, Philip Barnes wrote:

> On Thu, 2014-05-01 at 20:21 +0200, Esben Stien wrote:
> > Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> writes:
> >
> > > Apps could be developed to use TMC, or other traffic databases in real
> > > time.
> >
> > Do we have any traffic databases that is under community control?
> >
> TMC in many countries is a free service transmitted alongside broadcast
> radio, the wiki page I believe give details of the open standards which
> we could use.
The problem here is the LCL - Every TMC network has its own LCL and some
of them are non public. In Germany we have an LCL which is state maintained
and a commercial service called TMC Pro which has a non public LCL List.

Flo
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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Esben Stien
In reply to this post by Philip Barnes
Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> writes:

> TMC in many countries is a free service transmitted alongside broadcast
> radio, the wiki page I believe give details of the open standards which
> we could use.

I'm not really interested in using TMC, cause we don't have community
control.

> Gathering traffic details is a huge real-time logistical, and expensive,
> operation. It is not something that the community could hope to match.

Here in Norway we have several communities covering large areas of the
country reporting real time mobile police checkpoints. One site is
collecting this information and gives out a file with structured text
describing lon and lat and the type of police checkpoints, so the
community is really active regarding this.

We have the structured data, but we have no way to distribute this data
through OSM, it seems, because there is no real time traffic layer and
because I can't find a navigation client that works directly with OSM.

I've looked at openrouteservice.org which actually directly uses OSM,
which seems like the only one, but this is a web service.

We need a real time traffic layer for OSM, community controlled, where
the community can report such things as closed roads, car crashes,
traffic jams and mobile police check points.

That way, clients that uses static maps can have real time event
information based on the route they are taking. I'm really amazed we
don't already have something like this.

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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

SomeoneElse
Esben Stien wrote:
> We have the structured data, but we have no way to distribute this
> data through OSM, it seems, because there is no real time traffic layer

As previously mentioned, you'll need to distribute it yourself (perhaps
after combining with OSM data)

> and because I can't find a navigation client that works directly with
> OSM.

Garmin devices do (via mkgmap); and there's software for mobile phones too.

> I've looked at openrouteservice.org which actually directly uses OSM,
> which seems like the only one, but this is a web service. We need a
> real time traffic layer for OSM, community controlled, where the
> community can report such things as closed roads, car crashes, traffic
> jams and mobile police check points. That way, clients that uses
> static maps can have real time event information based on the route
> they are taking. I'm really amazed we don't already have something
> like this.

I think that you've just volunteered yourself to create exactly that :-)

Cheers,

Andy


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Re: Navigation with Online Maps

Hamlet
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2


Le 1 mai 2014 20:39, "Florian Lohoff" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 08:21:01PM +0200, Esben Stien wrote:
> > Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> writes:
> >
> > > Apps could be developed to use TMC, or other traffic databases in real
> > > time.
> >
> > Do we have any traffic databases that is under community control?
>
>
> When talking about "traffic database" you may refer to something like
> google traffic which is basically a real time traffic speed database.
> Its vast amount of data and you'll need a lot of mobile clients.
> I dont think the community is capable of a) paying for the central
> services and b) deploy the necessary amount of mobile clients giving
> feedback.
>
I'd say waze (1) does that...
All right it's commercial, but the data is from the community!
Not that I particulary like this proprietary, closed-mind service but it's popular, and seems to work quite well.

(1) : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waze


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