Need advice on a project i've taken on

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Need advice on a project i've taken on

Hans De Kryger
I started about 2 weeks ago removing tiger zip data (Left & Right) from Arizona, my home state. When i finished i thought i'd continue with a few other states. As of now i've finished 15 states (1). The project is currently on hold due to concern from other mappers. I'm aware that mass edits on tiger data is not helpful due to it being hard to tell if it was touched since the tiger import.


Regards,
Hans

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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Jason Remillard
Hi

It is my opinion that removing imported non standard tags is almost always ok. 

It has been 10 years since tiger was imported, any effort to maintain it should be welcomed. We own it now, no script is comming to automatically update it. 

You might want to run it as an automated edit. 


Jason

On Saturday, June 10, 2017, Hans De Kryger <[hidden email]> wrote:
I started about 2 weeks ago removing tiger zip data (Left & Right) from Arizona, my home state. When i finished i thought i'd continue with a few other states. As of now i've finished 15 states (1). The project is currently on hold due to concern from other mappers. I'm aware that mass edits on tiger data is not helpful due to it being hard to tell if it was touched since the tiger import.


Regards,
Hans

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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Mike N.
On 6/10/2017 10:51 PM, Jason Remillard wrote:
> It is my opinion that removing imported non standard tags is
> almost always ok.
>
> It has been 10 years since tiger was imported, any effort to maintain it
> should be welcomed. We own it now, no script is comming to automatically
> update it.
>
> You might want to run it as an automated edit.

  I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.

  What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit?
Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags
to their passive removal list.

   The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a
manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file
for a small benefit.


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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Walter Nordmann
In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.

Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change
the timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think:
this way has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the
geometry or the speed limit or something else.

Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused tags.

Regards
walter, aka wambacher

Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:
>  I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.
>
>  What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit?
> Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags
> to their passive removal list.
>
>   The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a
> manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file
> for a small benefit.


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[url=http://osm.wno-edv-service.de/residentials] Missing Residentials Map 1.17[/url] [url=http://osm.wno-edv-service.de/plz] Postcode Map 2.0.2[/url]
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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Andrew Matheny
I think Walter makes a fair point, but on the other hand, issues with TIGER data are easily apparent when looking at the streets (ways aren't straight, curves are messy, intersections aren't square, etc.) or when armchair mappers compare them to the imagery. If they're wanting to figure out which ways may need review for geometry, the variety of philosophies on the tiger:reviewed key should allow a search using that (since the most liberal user usually removes the key after they fix geometry while the most conservative leaves it until on-the-ground checking is done)

Other fields (like speed limits, surface, etc.) are only going to be there if a user added that data at a later date. If someone's looking to add those missing fields, I think they'd be more likely to run an OverPass query or do a simple JOSM search of the objects in their dataframe rather than going by the date it was last edited.

I think this is a great idea. To address Walter's point, I would think about using a special username for this project (like TIGERzipremoval or something) and making sure your changeset comments cleary state that it's an automated edit to remove the obsolete tags. That way it's easy to see when anyone pulls up a way's history.

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Walter Nordmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.

Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change the timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think: this way has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the geometry or the speed limit or something else.

Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused tags.

Regards
walter, aka wambacher


Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:
 I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.

 What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit? Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags to their passive removal list.

  The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file for a small benefit.


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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Shawn K. Quinn
In reply to this post by Hans De Kryger
On 06/10/2017 03:40 PM, Hans De Kryger wrote:
> I started about 2 weeks ago removing tiger zip data (Left & Right) from
> Arizona, my home state. When i finished i thought i'd continue with a
> few other states. As of now i've finished 15 states (1). The project is
> currently on hold due to concern from other mappers. I'm aware that mass
> edits on tiger data is not helpful due to it being hard to tell if it
> was touched since the tiger import.

What exactly is the rationale behind removing the zip code data?

--
Shawn K. Quinn <[hidden email]>
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Hans De Kryger


Regards,
Hans

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Shawn K. Quinn <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 06/10/2017 03:40 PM, Hans De Kryger wrote:
> I started about 2 weeks ago removing tiger zip data (Left & Right) from
> Arizona, my home state. When i finished i thought i'd continue with a
> few other states. As of now i've finished 15 states (1). The project is
> currently on hold due to concern from other mappers. I'm aware that mass
> edits on tiger data is not helpful due to it being hard to tell if it
> was touched since the tiger import.

What exactly is the rationale behind removing the zip code data?

​The usefulness is nonexistent ​

--
Shawn K. Quinn <[hidden email]>
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Hans De Kryger
In reply to this post by Andrew Matheny


Regards,
Hans

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Andrew Matheny <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think Walter makes a fair point, but on the other hand, issues with TIGER data are easily apparent when looking at the streets (ways aren't straight, curves are messy, intersections aren't square, etc.) or when armchair mappers compare them to the imagery. If they're wanting to figure out which ways may need review for geometry, the variety of philosophies on the tiger:reviewed key should allow a search using that (since the most liberal user usually removes the key after they fix geometry while the most conservative leaves it until on-the-ground checking is done)

Other fields (like speed limits, surface, etc.) are only going to be there if a user added that data at a later date. If someone's looking to add those missing fields, I think they'd be more likely to run an OverPass query or do a simple JOSM search of the objects in their dataframe rather than going by the date it was last edited.

I think this is a great idea. To address Walter's point, I would think about using a special username for this project (like TIGERzipremoval or something) and making sure your changeset comments cleary state that it's an automated edit to remove the obsolete tags. That way it's easy to see when anyone pulls up a way's history.

​I would, but i already made over a million edits so far on my account. ​See link https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/tiger:zip_left#map

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Walter Nordmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.

Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change the timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think: this way has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the geometry or the speed limit or something else.

Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused tags.

Regards
walter, aka wambacher


Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:
 I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.

 What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit? Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags to their passive removal list.

  The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file for a small benefit.


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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Hans De Kryger
You can see the progress i've made so far http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13

Regards,
Hans

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Hans De Kryger <[hidden email]> wrote:


Regards,
Hans

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Andrew Matheny <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think Walter makes a fair point, but on the other hand, issues with TIGER data are easily apparent when looking at the streets (ways aren't straight, curves are messy, intersections aren't square, etc.) or when armchair mappers compare them to the imagery. If they're wanting to figure out which ways may need review for geometry, the variety of philosophies on the tiger:reviewed key should allow a search using that (since the most liberal user usually removes the key after they fix geometry while the most conservative leaves it until on-the-ground checking is done)

Other fields (like speed limits, surface, etc.) are only going to be there if a user added that data at a later date. If someone's looking to add those missing fields, I think they'd be more likely to run an OverPass query or do a simple JOSM search of the objects in their dataframe rather than going by the date it was last edited.

I think this is a great idea. To address Walter's point, I would think about using a special username for this project (like TIGERzipremoval or something) and making sure your changeset comments cleary state that it's an automated edit to remove the obsolete tags. That way it's easy to see when anyone pulls up a way's history.

​I would, but i already made over a million edits so far on my account. ​See link https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/tiger:zip_left#map

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Walter Nordmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.

Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change the timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think: this way has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the geometry or the speed limit or something else.

Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused tags.

Regards
walter, aka wambacher


Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:
 I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.

 What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit? Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags to their passive removal list.

  The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file for a small benefit.


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Re: Need advice on a project i've taken on

Minh Nguyen-2
In reply to this post by Hans De Kryger
On 11/06/2017 16:19, Hans De Kryger wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Shawn K. Quinn <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     What exactly is the rationale behind removing the zip code data?
>
>
> ​The usefulness is nonexistent ​

In the past, I've used these tags to sanity-check addr:postcode tags on
nearby POIs. I'm aware that ZIP codes are more complex than meets the
eye [1], although the left/right modeling used in the TIGER import is at
least consistent with ZIPs-as-routes. It was handy, but there are other
ways to sanity-check addr:postcode tags anyhow.

[1] https://github.com/iandees/wtf-zipcodes

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