Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Tod Fitch
One of the listed values of the place tag is “neighbourhood”. And, in the one case where I mapped such a overhead sign, it was the entrance to a neighborhood. It was, in fact, the location you’d be taken to by the motor-rickshaw from the metro station when you gave your destination and was part of the address I was given to reach the residence in question.

But that was in another country than I live in. In my own country, it is much more likely that a development would have a sign to the side of a main way in. Mostly there for advertising. Nobody, or at least almost nobody, would ever use it to give directions or use it as a destination itself.

So I guess the use of a place=neighbourhood tag might be dependent on the local situation. Is this the landmark the locals use for giving directions? If so, then place=neighbourhood is more likely to be usable by a routing engine than usage=welcome_sign.

Cheers!

On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Sergio Manzi <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, wait, I disagree with the "place=neighbourhood" thing!

See: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Places and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place

Cheers!

On 2018-11-30 18:10, Sergio Manzi wrote:

Seems very good to me.

In the proposal I don't like very much the way to indicate clearence, maxheight:physical=* (what? opposed to...  maxheight:virtual=*, maybe?), but that's another story...

I think you found the right key, bravo!

Sergio


On 2018-11-30 17:53, Tod Fitch wrote:
I’ve mapped by placing a way across the road tagged with:

man_made=gantry
name=“whatever”
place=neighbourhood

I suppose one could add some sort of tagging indicating the vertical clearance that might be of use for routing.

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Sergio Manzi

I understand what you mean (and it reminds me of my first arrival in India, to the neighbourood of Pahrganj in New Delhi!), but I still think place=neighbourood on the way identifing the gantry is wrong. Please let me explain why.

A neighbourood occupy an "area", so you should either define that area with a polygon, or, if you don't have the information/time to do that, you should put a node "close to that area".

I think that in your case you could define the gantry as I suggested (or in a similar way) and then add a node with place=neighbourood very close to the gantry. For routing you'll have the same (positive) effects.

It also seems that the wiki have the same idea: place=neighbourood should not be used on ways. Please check that on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aplace%3Dneighbourhood

Cheers!

Sergio


On 2018-11-30 19:19, Tod Fitch wrote:
One of the listed values of the place tag is “neighbourhood”. And, in the one case where I mapped such a overhead sign, it was the entrance to a neighborhood. It was, in fact, the location you’d be taken to by the motor-rickshaw from the metro station when you gave your destination and was part of the address I was given to reach the residence in question.

But that was in another country than I live in. In my own country, it is much more likely that a development would have a sign to the side of a main way in. Mostly there for advertising. Nobody, or at least almost nobody, would ever use it to give directions or use it as a destination itself.

So I guess the use of a place=neighbourhood tag might be dependent on the local situation. Is this the landmark the locals use for giving directions? If so, then place=neighbourhood is more likely to be usable by a routing engine than usage=welcome_sign.

Cheers!

On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Sergio Manzi <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, wait, I disagree with the "place=neighbourhood" thing!

See: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Places and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place

Cheers!

On 2018-11-30 18:10, Sergio Manzi wrote:

Seems very good to me.

In the proposal I don't like very much the way to indicate clearence, maxheight:physical=* (what? opposed to...  maxheight:virtual=*, maybe?), but that's another story...

I think you found the right key, bravo!

Sergio


On 2018-11-30 17:53, Tod Fitch wrote:
I’ve mapped by placing a way across the road tagged with:

man_made=gantry
name=“whatever”
place=neighbourhood

I suppose one could add some sort of tagging indicating the vertical clearance that might be of use for routing.

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Sergio Manzi

Oh, and, BTW, by doing that the neighbourood will not suddenly disappear if they ever take down the gantry...  :-)


On 2018-11-30 21:21, Sergio Manzi wrote:

I understand what you mean (and it reminds me of my first arrival in India, to the neighbourood of Pahrganj in New Delhi!), but I still think place=neighbourood on the way identifing the gantry is wrong. Please let me explain why.

A neighbourood occupy an "area", so you should either define that area with a polygon, or, if you don't have the information/time to do that, you should put a node "close to that area".

I think that in your case you could define the gantry as I suggested (or in a similar way) and then add a node with place=neighbourood very close to the gantry. For routing you'll have the same (positive) effects.

It also seems that the wiki have the same idea: place=neighbourood should not be used on ways. Please check that on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aplace%3Dneighbourhood

Cheers!

Sergio


On 2018-11-30 19:19, Tod Fitch wrote:
One of the listed values of the place tag is “neighbourhood”. And, in the one case where I mapped such a overhead sign, it was the entrance to a neighborhood. It was, in fact, the location you’d be taken to by the motor-rickshaw from the metro station when you gave your destination and was part of the address I was given to reach the residence in question.

But that was in another country than I live in. In my own country, it is much more likely that a development would have a sign to the side of a main way in. Mostly there for advertising. Nobody, or at least almost nobody, would ever use it to give directions or use it as a destination itself.

So I guess the use of a place=neighbourhood tag might be dependent on the local situation. Is this the landmark the locals use for giving directions? If so, then place=neighbourhood is more likely to be usable by a routing engine than usage=welcome_sign.

Cheers!

On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Sergio Manzi <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, wait, I disagree with the "place=neighbourhood" thing!

See: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Places and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place

Cheers!

On 2018-11-30 18:10, Sergio Manzi wrote:

Seems very good to me.

In the proposal I don't like very much the way to indicate clearence, maxheight:physical=* (what? opposed to...  maxheight:virtual=*, maybe?), but that's another story...

I think you found the right key, bravo!

Sergio


On 2018-11-30 17:53, Tod Fitch wrote:
I’ve mapped by placing a way across the road tagged with:

man_made=gantry
name=“whatever”
place=neighbourhood

I suppose one could add some sort of tagging indicating the vertical clearance that might be of use for routing.

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Sergio Manzi
OK, so man_made=gantry, or in some cases =archway, works for "things" crossing over the road :-) 




& I agree with Tod's comment earlier - this is only advertising to say that this development was marketed as Burleigh Cove. The official suburb is Burleigh Waters, & the only people that would ever make reference to it would be real estate agents eg Located at the end of a quiet cul-de-sac in a gated community of 8 homes in the highly sought after 'Burleigh Cove'! :-)


Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Sergio Manzi

Doh... every day harder... :-)

I'd say information=board + board_type=welcome_sign

look at it here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:board_type

Cheers!


On 2018-11-30 23:10, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
OK, so man_made=gantry, or in some cases =archway, works for "things" crossing over the road :-) 




& I agree with Tod's comment earlier - this is only advertising to say that this development was marketed as Burleigh Cove. The official suburb is Burleigh Waters, & the only people that would ever make reference to it would be real estate agents eg Located at the end of a quiet cul-de-sac in a gated community of 8 homes in the highly sought after 'Burleigh Cove'! :-)


Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Graeme Fitzpatrick



On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 08:26, Sergio Manzi <[hidden email]> wrote:

Doh... every day harder... :-)


What, you want easy??? :-) 

I'd say information=board + board_type=welcome_sign

look at it here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:board_type


That sort of works, but do we need something to say it's a big rock, or cement column?

Thanks 

Graeme

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Kevin Kenny-3
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 5:59 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

That sort of works, but do we need something to say it's a big rock, or cement column?

The 'description' tag, perhaps? Things eventually get to the point where even the obsessive classifiers on this list might as well admit that even if they do introduce a taxonomy, it is likely that no data consumer will use it. 

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Sergio Manzi

This! This! This! :-)

On 2018-12-01 00:12, Kevin Kenny wrote:
The 'description' tag, perhaps? Things eventually get to the point where even the obsessive classifiers on this list might as well admit that even if they do introduce a taxonomy, it is likely that no data consumer will use it. 

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Warin
In reply to this post by Kevin Kenny-3
On 01/12/18 10:12, Kevin Kenny wrote:
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 5:59 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

That sort of works, but do we need something to say it's a big rock, or cement column?

The 'description' tag, perhaps? Things eventually get to the point where even the obsessive classifiers on this list might as well admit that even if they do introduce a taxonomy, it is likely that no data consumer will use it.

Agreed!

Unfortunately mappers tend to add more and more detail possibly having run out of usefull  things to map in 'their' area.
Rather than have them abuse tags into a mess some of us try to present methods that might help keep some methodical tagging so someone might be able to actually make use of the information.



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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

AgusQui
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
For nothing was for the render, when we decided, almost 6 years ago, artwork
was not rendered by Mapnik or any application, we decided on the basis of
the tags approved at that time, inventing the sub-tag city_entrance. If now
they want to discuss the correct tag, great!. Regarding a simple welcome
sign recently I discovered tourism=information + information=board +
board_type=welcome_sign

Saludos, Agustín-

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 29. Nov 2018, at 04:27, AgusQui &lt;aguztinqui@&gt; wrote:
> >
> > We consider it as generic for any type of entrance arch
>
>
> IMHO this is tagging for the renderer. You set the artwork bar incredibly
> low with this. Why not call them “entrance_arch” or maybe “welcome_sign”?
> Or even both of them, according to the situation?
>
>
> Cheers, Martin




--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


sent from a phone

On 30. Nov 2018, at 10:12, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

What key would you recommend, Martin?

Man_made=entrance_arch?
barrier=...?
Highway=...?
Entrance=welcome_sign?


I would not see them as barriers (although they might be for some high vehicles), nor would I use the entrance key (generally used for entrances to buildings).

What about information=welcome_sign?

there is also board_type=welcome_sign in use:

Cheers, Martin 

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Re: Neighborhood Gateway Signs?

Andy Mabbett
In reply to this post by Tod Fitch
On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 16:53, Tod Fitch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> man_made=gantry
> name=“whatever”
> place=neighbourhood
>
> I suppose one could add some sort of tagging indicating the vertical
> clearance that might be of use for routing.

Also:

* material= [wood|steel|brick|whatever]
* start_date= [date]
* operator= [...]

and:

* wikidata= [QID]

if applicable.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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