Non-slippy map link on front page?

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Non-slippy map link on front page?

Tom Chance-2
Hullo,

An old acquaintance has pointed out to me that the slippy map isn't very
friendly for people without javascript and with minor disabilities:
http://tom.acrewoods.net/blog/2007/sep/social-mapping#comments

The slippy map does have the little arrows at the top left, but what do people
think about adding a link on the front page to a static tile browser like
OJW's for accessibility reasons?
http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/

Kind regards,
Tom

--
| Green Party Speaker on Intellectual Property and Free Software |
| http://tom.acrewoods.net    ::    http://www.greenparty.org.uk |

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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Tom Hughes-3
In message <[hidden email]>
          Tom Chance <[hidden email]> wrote:

> An old acquaintance has pointed out to me that the slippy map isn't very
> friendly for people without javascript and with minor disabilities:
> http://tom.acrewoods.net/blog/2007/sep/social-mapping#comments
>
> The slippy map does have the little arrows at the top left, but what do people
> think about adding a link on the front page to a static tile browser like
> OJW's for accessibility reasons?
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/

There is an outstanding ticket for this, and somebody has already
suggested privately to me resolving that ticket by embedding the
static tile browser, but it's actually far more complicated than
that as the page has lots of javascript dependency beyond that.

As far as putting a link on goes, the problem is one of screen real
estate as we've already got people complaining that they can't see
everything without scrolling.

There's also an issue about whether we want a dependency on something
that isn't part of the main official web site like that.

Tom

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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Richard Fairhurst
Tom Hughes wrote:

> As far as putting a link on goes, the problem is one of screen real
> estate as we've already got people complaining that they can't see
> everything without scrolling.
>
> There's also an issue about whether we want a dependency on something
> that isn't part of the main official web site like that.

Colin Marquardt, on (other) Tom's blog, has posted that this would be  
best rectified at the OpenLayers level. I think that's an excellent  
suggestion.

cheers
Richard


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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Frederik Ramm
In reply to this post by Tom Hughes-3
Hi,

> As far as putting a link on goes, the problem is one of screen real
> estate as we've already got people complaining that they can't see
> everything without scrolling.

I have seen sites where the main page was a simple static page with a
Javascript redirect (along the lines of
"windows.location.href=javascript page"). That makes sure everyone
with Javascript gets the fancy page, and people without just see a
simple one. The drawback is that the fancy page only appears after an
extra round trip, even though it is probably used by 99% of viewers.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Andy Allan
In reply to this post by Richard Fairhurst
On 9/3/07, Richard Fairhurst <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tom Hughes wrote:
>
> > As far as putting a link on goes, the problem is one of screen real
> > estate as we've already got people complaining that they can't see
> > everything without scrolling.
> >
> > There's also an issue about whether we want a dependency on something
> > that isn't part of the main official web site like that.
>
> Colin Marquardt, on (other) Tom's blog, has posted that this would be
> best rectified at the OpenLayers level. I think that's an excellent
> suggestion.

I've had the same OP on my weblog regarding the cycle maps. You can
see the discussion unfolding at
http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2007/07/31/openstreetmap-cycle-map/#comment-22379

There's four issues that I can see being combined into the
anti-my-cycle-map complaint:

* Dislike of javascript (security and power consumption being mentioned)
* Printing
* Disability implications of slippy interface
* Linking to pages

The latter two I think can be handled by navigation buttons and
permalinks respectively, but I'm running with them enabled already and
the complaint is still being generated. I'm really not sure if there's
any easy way out of the first, without needing e.g. php scripts to
handle things instead. With Openlayers you can just have a dumb host
and everything works - but if someone were to make a combined
openlayers+php fallback thing I'd consider it.

The interesting one is the case of printing, but I guess that's an
OpenLayers issue too?

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Francisco R. Santos
In reply to this post by Frederik Ramm


2007/9/3, Frederik Ramm <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

> As far as putting a link on goes, the problem is one of screen real
> estate as we've already got people complaining that they can't see
> everything without scrolling.

I have seen sites where the main page was a simple static page with a
Javascript redirect (along the lines of
"windows.location.href=javascript page"). That makes sure everyone
with Javascript gets the fancy page, and people without just see a
simple one. The drawback is that the fancy page only appears after an
extra round trip, even though it is probably used by 99% of viewers.

The noscript html tag is designed precisely for that:  http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/scripts.html#h-18.3.1

Regards,
Quico


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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Robert (Jamie) Munro
In reply to this post by Richard Fairhurst
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Richard Fairhurst wrote:

> Tom Hughes wrote:
>
>> As far as putting a link on goes, the problem is one of screen real
>> estate as we've already got people complaining that they can't see
>> everything without scrolling.
>>
>> There's also an issue about whether we want a dependency on something
>> that isn't part of the main official web site like that.
>
> Colin Marquardt, on (other) Tom's blog, has posted that this would be  
> best rectified at the OpenLayers level. I think that's an excellent  
> suggestion.

But OpenLayers is a bunch of Javascript that runs on static web sites.
It can't provide a non-javascript version - there would be no where for
the code to run. The only equavalent would be to provide 1 html page
centered on each tile at every zoom or something. It has to be written
in Rails, but should be fairly simple to do, and put inside a <noscript>
tag. It could also act as search engine bait by including textual links
to places using the name search's "where am I" feature.

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Richard Fairhurst
Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote:

> But OpenLayers is a bunch of Javascript that runs on static web sites.
> It can't provide a non-javascript version - there would be no where for
> the code to run.

Yeah, I'm kind of focusing on the accessibility argument and ignoring  
the "no JavaScript" bit because, really, I don't consider the latter  
that relevant in 2007. JavaScript isn't the biggest obstacle to  
viewing OSM in Lynx.

cheers
Richard


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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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Richard Fairhurst wrote:

> Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote:
>
>> But OpenLayers is a bunch of Javascript that runs on static web sites.
>> It can't provide a non-javascript version - there would be no where for
>> the code to run.
>
> Yeah, I'm kind of focusing on the accessibility argument and ignoring  
> the "no JavaScript" bit because, really, I don't consider the latter  
> that relevant in 2007. JavaScript isn't the biggest obstacle to  
> viewing OSM in Lynx.

Ah, so you're talking about adding keyboard shortcuts to scroll the map
and zoom. That /would/ be useful.

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Robin Rattay
In reply to this post by Francisco R. Santos
Hi,

Francisco R. Santos schrieb:
> 2007/9/3, Frederik Ramm <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>     I have seen sites where the main page was a simple static page with a
>     Javascript redirect (along the lines of
>     "windows.location.href=javascript page").
>
> The noscript html tag is designed precisely for that:

As a OSM newbie I don't want to be presumptuous, but the Right Way would
accually be to use the "Unobtrusive JavaScript" paradigm (see Google),
in order to separate behavior from content, just as CSS ist used when
separating presentation from content.


Robin


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80n
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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

80n
In reply to this post by Tom Chance-2
On 9/3/07, Tom Chance <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hullo,

An old acquaintance has pointed out to me that the slippy map isn't very
friendly for people without javascript and with minor disabilities:
http://tom.acrewoods.net/blog/2007/sep/social-mapping#comments

The slippy map does have the little arrows at the top left, but what do people
think about adding a link on the front page to a static tile browser like
OJW's for accessibility reasons?
http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/

I think the following code will enable keyboard shortcuts for the slippy map:
map.addControl(new OpenLayers.Control.KeyboardDefaults());

80n



 

Kind regards,
Tom

--
| Green Party Speaker on Intellectual Property and Free Software |
| http://tom.acrewoods.net    ::    http://www.greenparty.org.uk |

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Re: Non-slippy map link on front page?

Petter Reinholdtsen
In reply to this post by Tom Chance-2
[Tom Chance]
> The slippy map does have the little arrows at the top left, but what
> do people think about adding a link on the front page to a static
> tile browser like OJW's for accessibility reasons?

I would really like to have a non-javascript version of the OSM map
available on the front page.

Happy hacking,
--
Petter Reinholdtsen


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