OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

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OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

Ewen Hill
This is a weird one...
Do a search for 3 Remington Drive, Highett e.g...


It returns the correct street but the incorrect postcode.of 3192 .. 

Does anyone know how 3192 is injected into the returned address please?

Ewen


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Re: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

Phil Wyatt

Does this help at all Ewen?

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lonvia/diary/43143

 

From: Ewen Hill <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, 19 January 2021 9:52 PM
To: OSM-Au <[hidden email]>
Subject: [talk-au] OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

 

This is a weird one...

Do a search for 3 Remington Drive, Highett e.g...

 

 

It returns the correct street but the incorrect postcode.of 3192 .. 

 

Does anyone know how 3192 is injected into the returned address please?


Ewen

 


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Re: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

Jonathon Rossi
In reply to this post by Ewen Hill
Search is powered by Nominatim:

It returns:
Computed Postcode 3192

This page describes the process for computed postcodes, basically the center point of all elements with a postcode. There is an Overpass query here you can run to see those elements:

All the elements with a postcode of 3190 are grouped tightly together, so 3192 is closer.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 8:54 PM Ewen Hill <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is a weird one...
Do a search for 3 Remington Drive, Highett e.g...


It returns the correct street but the incorrect postcode.of 3192 .. 

Does anyone know how 3192 is injected into the returned address please?

Ewen

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Jono

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Re: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

Jonathon Rossi
I've not mapped them before but curious now why we don't seem to have imported addr:postcode tags for suburbs, Nominatim uses them before centroids.

Surely addr:postcode doesn't have to be unique because it sounds like some countries have postcodes based on postal routes or other less administrative boundaries.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 9:26 PM Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
Search is powered by Nominatim:

It returns:
Computed Postcode 3192

This page describes the process for computed postcodes, basically the center point of all elements with a postcode. There is an Overpass query here you can run to see those elements:

All the elements with a postcode of 3190 are grouped tightly together, so 3192 is closer.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 8:54 PM Ewen Hill <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is a weird one...
Do a search for 3 Remington Drive, Highett e.g...


It returns the correct street but the incorrect postcode.of 3192 .. 

Does anyone know how 3192 is injected into the returned address please?

Ewen

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Re: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

ewmjc
In reply to this post by Ewen Hill
Ewen,

I can't give you a definitive answer but I have noticed that the Nominatim search engine will give you a "close to" town, etc rather than a for sure field. 3192 is for Cheltenham directly south-east and I have for sure mapped a lot of address tags there with post code. I would hazard the guess that it is extrapolating from those.  Adding a few (more?) points for Highett would not hurt. I mostly use till receipts.

Mike

On 2021-01-19 11:51, Ewen Hill wrote:
This is a weird one...
Do a search for 3 Remington Drive, Highett e.g...


It returns the correct street but the incorrect postcode.of 3192 .. 

Does anyone know how 3192 is injected into the returned address please?

Ewen


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Fwd: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Jonathon Rossi
Re-sent to list as well!

Thanks

Graeme


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 08:14
Subject: Re: [talk-au] OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.
To: Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]>





On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 21:41, Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've not mapped them before but curious now why we don't seem to have imported addr:postcode tags for suburbs, Nominatim uses them before centroids.

Surely addr:postcode doesn't have to be unique because it sounds like some countries have postcodes based on postal routes or other less administrative boundaries.

From recent posts re addresses on the tagging list, the UK even has unique postcodes for individual buildings, & even for different businesses / organisations inside the one building!

Thanks

Graeme


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Re: Fwd: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

cleary
I was told that the correct tag for places such as towns or suburbs is postal_code=* whereas the addr:postcode tag is for individual locations.

However, even with that tag on the suburb boundary, Nominatim is getting it wrong, particularly for streets close to suburb boundaries.  I found multiple examples in Sydney suburbs without much effort. In each case the suburb boundary included the correct postal_code=* tag.  In one instance the postcode shown by Nominatim is the special postcode for PO Boxes in an adjacent suburb, not even the usual postcode for street addresses. I can only presume a business in the area is tagged in OSM with its postal address, a PO Box in the adjacent suburb, and that has been taken by Nominatim as the postcode for this area.

Perhaps we need to tag individual streets with postcodes, especially streets near suburb boundaries.

One final thought ... perhaps Nominatim reads only addr:postcode=* tags and does not understand postal_code=*   If so, that might explain the anomalies.






On Wed, 20 Jan 2021, at 9:15 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

> Re-sent to list as well!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: *Graeme Fitzpatrick* <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 08:14
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.
> To: Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 21:41, Jonathon Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I've not mapped them before but curious now why we don't seem to have imported addr:postcode tags for suburbs, Nominatim uses them before centroids.
> >
> > Surely addr:postcode doesn't have to be unique because it sounds like some countries have postcodes based on postal routes or other less administrative boundaries.
>
> From recent posts re addresses on the tagging list, the UK even has
> unique postcodes for individual buildings, & even for different
> businesses / organisations inside the one building!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

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Re: Fwd: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

Andrew Harvey-3


On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 10:19, cleary <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was told that the correct tag for places such as towns or suburbs is postal_code=* whereas the addr:postcode tag is for individual locations.

However, even with that tag on the suburb boundary, Nominatim is getting it wrong, particularly for streets close to suburb boundaries.  I found multiple examples in Sydney suburbs without much effort. In each case the suburb boundary included the correct postal_code=* tag.  In one instance the postcode shown by Nominatim is the special postcode for PO Boxes in an adjacent suburb, not even the usual postcode for street addresses. I can only presume a business in the area is tagged in OSM with its postal address, a PO Box in the adjacent suburb, and that has been taken by Nominatim as the postcode for this area.

Perhaps we need to tag individual streets with postcodes, especially streets near suburb boundaries.

One final thought ... perhaps Nominatim reads only addr:postcode=* tags and does not understand postal_code=*   If so, that might explain the anomalies.

There are references to postal_code=* in the Nominatim code base, I'd suggest reporting those examples you found to the Nominatim issue tracker.

I'm not sure if you have addresses on opposite sides of a street with different postcodes or not, so my preference is to map the actual address objects rather than adding a postcode to the road.

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Re: Fwd: OSM Search results return strange stuff for Victoria.

Kevin Pye
Mapping postcodes to streets wouldn't fix my Victorian address. If I search for it I get the wrong suburb and postcode, but I suspect that's because individual addresses in the street aren't mapped, and the suburb and postcode are correct for the other end of the fairly short street.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 11:03, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 10:19, cleary <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was told that the correct tag for places such as towns or suburbs is postal_code=* whereas the addr:postcode tag is for individual locations.

However, even with that tag on the suburb boundary, Nominatim is getting it wrong, particularly for streets close to suburb boundaries.  I found multiple examples in Sydney suburbs without much effort. In each case the suburb boundary included the correct postal_code=* tag.  In one instance the postcode shown by Nominatim is the special postcode for PO Boxes in an adjacent suburb, not even the usual postcode for street addresses. I can only presume a business in the area is tagged in OSM with its postal address, a PO Box in the adjacent suburb, and that has been taken by Nominatim as the postcode for this area.

Perhaps we need to tag individual streets with postcodes, especially streets near suburb boundaries.

One final thought ... perhaps Nominatim reads only addr:postcode=* tags and does not understand postal_code=*   If so, that might explain the anomalies.

There are references to postal_code=* in the Nominatim code base, I'd suggest reporting those examples you found to the Nominatim issue tracker.

I'm not sure if you have addresses on opposite sides of a street with different postcodes or not, so my preference is to map the actual address objects rather than adding a postcode to the road.
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