[OSM-legal-talk] ASTER or no ASTER?

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[OSM-legal-talk] ASTER or no ASTER?

Frederik Ramm
Hi,

    I'm slowly getting a headache from trying to find out wheter the use
of ASTER data (for hillshading) in the creation of CC-BY-SA licensed map
tiles is permissible or not.

There are people who say that ASTER is only free for science and
educational use. I used to think that too. But it's hard to find a good
statement about that.

 From http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/20090629.html:

"NASA and Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and industry (METI)
released the Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection
Radiometer (ASTER) Global Digital Elevation Model (GDEM) to the
worldwide public on June 29, 2009."

No license info on that page, but "release to the worldwide public" is
something different from "for academic purposes only", isn't it?

Then http://asterweb.jpl.nasa.gov/gdem.asp:

"As a contribution from METI and NASA to the Global Earth Observation
System of Systems (GEOSS), ASTER GDEM V2 data are available free of
charge to users worldwide from the Land Processes Distributed Active
Archive Center (LP DAAC) and J-spacesystems."

No license info again, but "free of charge to users wolrdwide". Hm.

Then https://lpdaac.usgs.gov/products/aster_policies gets interesting
but the language is somewhat twisted:

"ASTER Redistribution Policies for the General Public"

"ASTER Global DEM (GDEM) data are subject to redistribution and citation
policies. Before ordering ASTER GDEM data, users must agree to
redistribute data products only to individuals within their
organizations or projects of intended use, ..."

But this is about the *redistribution* of data, and I don't want to
redistribute - I want to make tiles from it. Further down ("Click here
for additional GDEM redistribution information") it says:

"The general principle is one of reversibility: If someone can recover
the original x-y-z values from the new product, then that new product
can NOT be re-distributed."

...

"What are some examples of derived products that are re-distributable?"

"2. Creating a slope map"

This all sounds as if I *can* download the data and use it for
hillshading as long as I don't redistribute the data itself. Doesn't it?

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [hidden email]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ASTER or no ASTER?

jaakkoh
I think it's as clear as a non-standard license can be.

As you noted:
"What are some examples of derived products that are re-distributable?"
"2. Creating a slope map"

That's really it in quite explicit terms, I think.

My guess is that they want to limit the distribution of the data itself so they would have a bit better understanding of how many organizations/projects/people are using the data. This may impact their financing, etc. .. Just guessing of course.

Cheers,
-Jaakko

Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel
--
Mobile: +509-37-26 91 54, Skype/GoogleTalk: jhelleranta

-----Original Message-----
From: Frederik Ramm <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 15:30:02
To: Licensing and other legal discussions.<[hidden email]>
Reply-To: "Licensing and other legal discussions."
        <[hidden email]>
Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] ASTER or no ASTER?

Hi,

    I'm slowly getting a headache from trying to find out wheter the use
of ASTER data (for hillshading) in the creation of CC-BY-SA licensed map
tiles is permissible or not.

There are people who say that ASTER is only free for science and
educational use. I used to think that too. But it's hard to find a good
statement about that.

 From http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/20090629.html:

"NASA and Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and industry (METI)
released the Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection
Radiometer (ASTER) Global Digital Elevation Model (GDEM) to the
worldwide public on June 29, 2009."

No license info on that page, but "release to the worldwide public" is
something different from "for academic purposes only", isn't it?

Then http://asterweb.jpl.nasa.gov/gdem.asp:

"As a contribution from METI and NASA to the Global Earth Observation
System of Systems (GEOSS), ASTER GDEM V2 data are available free of
charge to users worldwide from the Land Processes Distributed Active
Archive Center (LP DAAC) and J-spacesystems."

No license info again, but "free of charge to users wolrdwide". Hm.

Then https://lpdaac.usgs.gov/products/aster_policies gets interesting
but the language is somewhat twisted:

"ASTER Redistribution Policies for the General Public"

"ASTER Global DEM (GDEM) data are subject to redistribution and citation
policies. Before ordering ASTER GDEM data, users must agree to
redistribute data products only to individuals within their
organizations or projects of intended use, ..."

But this is about the *redistribution* of data, and I don't want to
redistribute - I want to make tiles from it. Further down ("Click here
for additional GDEM redistribution information") it says:

"The general principle is one of reversibility: If someone can recover
the original x-y-z values from the new product, then that new product
can NOT be re-distributed."

...

"What are some examples of derived products that are re-distributable?"

"2. Creating a slope map"

This all sounds as if I *can* download the data and use it for
hillshading as long as I don't redistribute the data itself. Doesn't it?

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [hidden email]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ASTER or no ASTER?

Chris Hill-6
In reply to this post by Frederik Ramm
On 06/07/12 14:30, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Hi,
>
>    I'm slowly getting a headache from trying to find out wheter the
> use of ASTER data (for hillshading) in the creation of CC-BY-SA
> licensed map tiles is permissible or not.
>
> There are people who say that ASTER is only free for science and
> educational use. I used to think that too. But it's hard to find a
> good statement about that.
>
> From http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/20090629.html:
>
> "NASA and Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and industry (METI)
> released the Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection
> Radiometer (ASTER) Global Digital Elevation Model (GDEM) to the
> worldwide public on June 29, 2009."
>
> No license info on that page, but "release to the worldwide public" is
> something different from "for academic purposes only", isn't it?
>
> Then http://asterweb.jpl.nasa.gov/gdem.asp:
>
> "As a contribution from METI and NASA to the Global Earth Observation
> System of Systems (GEOSS), ASTER GDEM V2 data are available free of
> charge to users worldwide from the Land Processes Distributed Active
> Archive Center (LP DAAC) and J-spacesystems."
>
> No license info again, but "free of charge to users wolrdwide". Hm.
>
> Then https://lpdaac.usgs.gov/products/aster_policies gets interesting
> but the language is somewhat twisted:
>
> "ASTER Redistribution Policies for the General Public"
>
> "ASTER Global DEM (GDEM) data are subject to redistribution and
> citation policies. Before ordering ASTER GDEM data, users must agree
> to redistribute data products only to individuals within their
> organizations or projects of intended use, ..."
>
> But this is about the *redistribution* of data, and I don't want to
> redistribute - I want to make tiles from it. Further down ("Click here
> for additional GDEM redistribution information") it says:
>
> "The general principle is one of reversibility: If someone can recover
> the original x-y-z values from the new product, then that new product
> can NOT be re-distributed."
>
> ...
>
> "What are some examples of derived products that are re-distributable?"
>
> "2. Creating a slope map"
>
> This all sounds as if I *can* download the data and use it for
> hillshading as long as I don't redistribute the data itself. Doesn't it?
I contacted NASA and got a response:

"Our re-distribution policy is the following:

"You may share GDEM with your colleagues working on the same project.
You may re-distribute ANY derived products. A derived product is one where the original DEM values cannot be backed out. So mosaicking several tiles together is not sufficient to re-distribute. But re-sampling the values while creating a different projection can be re-distributed, since the original DEM values cannot be recovered."

I'm not sure if that adds much, but it seems that if your hill shading
guarantees to obfuscate the original data that seems OK. They don't seem
to specify any on-going licence so CC BY-SA should be fine.

--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


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