OSM tile server issue

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
5 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

OSM tile server issue

Justmapzz Rodolfo
OSM tile server issue Here is another victim of your usage policy.
I am the main developer of Justmapzz, which uses GMAP.NET for map viewing.
Since 2 days our users can no longer view OSM, because you blocked that library for everybody.
We have always used GMAP.NET  "as is", without diving into the code.
Now that Grant Slater indicated a portion of the code that defines a user-agent, I had a close look at that detail and I must admit, that this definition of the user-agent gives room for doubt, but mainly because it makes it more difficult for you to develop server behaviour, based on the user-agent info.
So I changed the definition of the user-agent to a fixed string complying with the directions for the syntax of user-agents and checked the response of your tile server to discover that nothing has changed, still error 403. Apparently you use more filter conditions.
But wait a minute! A user agent was not designed for access control, but mainly for indicating the nature of a request initiator (=the software) to optimize the web response (an exception to this is the detection and blocking of bots).
That is why the vast majority of service providers use license keys, or whatever they call them.
Then every web request must include the license key in order to gain access to the requested information.
This system also makes it easy to check the usage level or block an individual license for any reason, without affecting other users.
In this case, it would be much easier to detect the users that cause capacity problems and block only the problematic users, instead of "punishing" all users of a certain app, based on the software libraries, that app uses.
Have you ever considered the introduction of a license key system?
In the mean time, what must we do to comply with your usage policy, other than changing the user-agent, which appeared to be insufficient?
Thanks for any help.
_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OSM tile server issue

Mateusz Konieczny-3
30 May 2019, 20:21 by [hidden email]:

> I am the main developer of Justmapzz, which uses GMAP.NET for map viewing

(...)

>  In the mean time, what must we do to comply with your usage policy, other than changing the user-agent, which appeared to be insufficient?


> Heavy use (e.g. distributing an app that uses tiles from openstreetmap.org) is
> forbidden without prior permission from the System Administrators.

Do you have such permission?

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OSM tile server issue

Tom Hughes-3
On 30/05/2019 19:43, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

> 30 May 2019, 20:21 by [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>:
>
>> I am the main developer of Justmapzz, which uses GMAP.NET for map viewing
>
> (...)
>
>>  In the mean time, what must we do to comply with your usage policy, other than changing the user-agent, which appeared to be insufficient?
>
> See https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/tiles/ for tile usage
> policy
>
>  > Heavy use (e.g. distributing an app that uses tiles from
> openstreetmap.org) is
>  > forbidden without prior permission from the System Administrators.
>
> Do you have such permission?

Argh. That line needs to be deleted... We are not in the
business of granting special permissions and any such queries
will just get pointed at the usage policy.

His real problem (aside from his attitude) is that gmap.net
is also sending a fake referer of http://www.openstreetmap.org/
which is causing it to be blocked.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes ([hidden email])
http://compton.nu/

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OSM tile server issue

Grant Slater
In reply to this post by Justmapzz Rodolfo
Hi Rodolfo,

Reply per snippet...

On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 19:38, Justmapzz Rodolfo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Here is another victim of your usage policy.
> I am the main developer of Justmapzz, which uses GMAP.NET for map viewing.
> Since 2 days our users can no longer view OSM, because you blocked that library for everybody.
> We have always used GMAP.NET  "as is", without diving into the code.
> Now that Grant Slater indicated a portion of the code that defines a user-agent, I had a close look at that detail and I must admit, that this definition of the user-agent gives room for doubt, but mainly because it makes it more difficult for you to develop server behaviour, based on the user-agent info.
> So I changed the definition of the user-agent to a fixed string complying with the directions for the syntax of user-agents and checked the response of your tile server to discover that nothing has changed, still error 403. Apparently you use more filter conditions.

For the benefit of others, here is the semi-random generated
User-Agent the GMAP.NET library creates:
https://github.com/radioman/greatmaps/blob/master/GMap.NET.Core/GMap.NET.MapProviders/GMapProvider.cs#L333-L336

And the GMAP.net's developer's response:
https://github.com/radioman/greatmaps/issues/132

> But wait a minute! A user agent was not designed for access control, but mainly for indicating the nature of a request initiator (=the software) to optimize the web response (an exception to this is the detection and blocking of bots).

Yes, please review the "Technical Usage Requirements" here:
https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/tiles/ and once you are
in compliance the tiles will work for you again.
The service is free. We are not paid for you using it. I am a
volunteer. The service is primarily for OpenStreetMap mappers and
hobbyists doing cool and novel things.

> That is why the vast majority of service providers use license keys, or whatever they call them.
> Then every web request must include the license key in order to gain access to the requested information.
> This system also makes it easy to check the usage level or block an individual license for any reason, without affecting other users.

Should we implement it them? Are you willing to develop the supporting
stack for us?
Who will maintain it?

> In this case, it would be much easier to detect the users that cause capacity problems and block only the problematic users, instead of "punishing" all users of a certain app, based on the software libraries, that app uses.
> Have you ever considered the introduction of a license key system?
> In the mean time, what must we do to comply with your usage policy, other than changing the user-agent, which appeared to be insufficient?
> Thanks for any help.

See above.

Kind regards,

Grant
Part of the OpenStreetMap sysadmin team.

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OSM tile server issue

Justmapzz Rodolfo
Re: [OSM-dev] OSM tile server issue Hi Grant,

I think that response from radioman is pretty awkward to put it politely.
The problem is, that imho gmap.net used to be a very good product, however, radioman stopped development over a year ago.
It is now maintained by  
https://github.com/judero01col/GMap.NET

About the license keys:
> Should we implement it them? Are you willing to develop the supporting
> stack for us?
> Who will maintain it?
Of course, I am prepared to help!
I think Osm is a great project and we try to promote its improvement and use as much as we can.
We even launched a simple app Osmate recently, aimed at the less technical users to teach them how they can improve the map, because the most heard complaint about OSM is routing errors, due to wrong map data.
I used to design SQL server databases, so maybe I can be useful for some aspects of the development of a license system.

>  > Heavy use (e.g. distributing an app that uses tiles from
> openstreetmap.org) is
>  > forbidden without prior permission from the System Administrators.
> Do you have such permission?  

When we started the development of Justmapzz in 2013, we looked into the requirements of the service providers involved and I thought, we had addressed all requirements by registering api-keys, user-tokens and various kinds of licenses for all those providers (we maintain about 12 licenses now).
In 2013, OpenStreetMap did not (to my best knowledge) require permission for the use of map tiles or we did not find any relevant information about it, so the short answer to your question is: no, we don't have permission. Of course we must get this right, so hereby I ask permission to use your tile servers for Justmapzz and Osmate.

Kind regards,
Rodolfo
_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev